Avengers: Endgame (2019)

[Silver Nemesis]

Avatar has finally been dethroned. Avengers: Endgame is now officially the highest grossing movie of all time (unadjusted for inflation).

https://variety.com/2019/film/news/avengers-endgame-box-office-record-avatar-2-1203256562/

That's in terms of worldwide BO. Domestically, it's the second highest grossing movie after The Force Awakens (again, unadjusted for inflation).

[thecolorsblend]

Every Frame A Painting shut down a few years ago. Not sure if they'll ever come back. But they hit upon a criticism I've had of Marvel for quite some time. The majority of the film scores are safe and kind of vanilla. There are problems with the films themselves (which don't involve the increasingly silly tone, I might add) but music is such an integral part of cinema that what has happened with film scoring in cinema in general and the MCU in particular is such a travesty that it has to be commented upon.

And EFAP comments on it at great length.

Btw, the one highly memorable MCU film score track for me is "Driving With The Top Down" from Iron Man. I enjoy that score in general but that track in particular really is a real piece of music. But other than that, I can't remember anything else. The Avengers main title, I guess, but that's about it.

[thecolorsblend]

Here's another good one.

The tldr is that I've never been big on IM2. IM1 and IM3? Good movies. I enjoy them. IM2? Less so. This video does a pretty good job of explaining what went wrong and how it all came apart.

The film that is hinted at in this video sounds far superior to what came out in 2010.

[BatmanFurst]

Here's another good one.

The tldr is that I've never been big on IM2. IM1 and IM3? Good movies. I enjoy them. IM2? Less so. This video does a pretty good job of explaining what went wrong and how it all came apart.

The film that is hinted at in this video sounds far superior to what came out in 2010.

You know what I hate? The guy that made that video and the Raimi Spidey trilogy vids is the same guy that made the "Batman 1989 is a bad Batman Film" video. I'm hard pressed to think of another YouTuber that's made videos that I love and hate to that degree. He's well spoken, and does good research but there were so many times in that Batman video where I just rolled my eyes or felt like he was missing the point.

[The Dark Knight]

You know what I hate? The guy that made that video and the Raimi Spidey trilogy vids is the same guy that made the "Batman 1989 is a bad Batman Film" video. I'm hard pressed to think of another YouTuber that's made videos that I love and hate to that degree. He's well spoken, and does good research but there were so many times in that Batman video where I just rolled my eyes or felt like he was missing the point.

Indeedy do. I have no time for these people and I'm not going to be their audience. I have as much interest in their opinion as I do a homeless bum on the street. As a member of a debating team I much prefer direct and immediate engagement (either written or face to face) rather than rambling into a void. It's a much better demonstration of intelligence and skill, and far more rewarding. I would relish the opportunity to speak with these Youtubers for that very reason. Now that would be something worth watching.

[The Laughing Fish]

Here's another good one.

The tldr is that I've never been big on IM2. IM1 and IM3? Good movies. I enjoy them. IM2? Less so. This video does a pretty good job of explaining what went wrong and how it all came apart.

The film that is hinted at in this video sounds far superior to what came out in 2010.

You know what I hate? The guy that made that video and the Raimi Spidey trilogy vids is the same guy that made the "Batman 1989 is a bad Batman Film" video. I'm hard pressed to think of another YouTuber that's made videos that I love and hate to that degree. He's well spoken, and does good research but there were so many times in that Batman video where I just rolled my eyes or felt like he was missing the point.

HiTop Films is a disingenuous piece of crap who should be demonitized. I don't say that because he thinks B89 is a bad Batman film, I say that because of his misinformation over "wHy BaTmAn DoEsN't KiLl", when we've had so many instances of him doing it in comics and movies over the years, but it's only "bad" if it's in certain movies. He's a hypocritical, digital savvy equivalent to a snake oil car salesman. In fact, I'd say most - if not all - of these YouTube video essayists are full of it. It, being sh*t. Clickbait chasing trash.

Now that I'm posting in this thread, I did happen to get around to watching Endgame recently.

I thought it was...merely okay. Considering how much I hated Infinity War, I guess it's a surprise, but I'd say there are good things and bad things about it.

The positives: when the dramatic moments hit, they're acted really well. Paul Rudd coming back from the Quantum Realm confused over what's going on (when you got the normally comedic actor acting more serious than Hulk and Thor then you know how much the MCU has dropped the ball on those two), as was Hawkeye's side story as well as Black Widow's ultiamte sacrifice.

Most of the time-travelling scenes were much more poignant than I would've expected, i.e. Tony meeting his dad back in the 70s, Thor and his mother Frigga, Cap looking at Peggy Carter from afar longing for a reunion that fate has deprived from him etc.

Tony's sacrifice to beat Thanos in the end was well done. I might've cared a lot more if this happened a few years ago instead of feeling burned out by the MCU, but I still say the moment was effective.

The negatives: The pitiful comedy is just as painful as it was in IW. Cap quipping "that is America's ass"? Get f***ed.

Bruce Banner/Hulk is a shadow of his former self. It's quite clear to me that Marvel didn't know what to do with him, so they decided to reduce him as a comedy relief character. If this is the best they could do, they should've killed him off in AOU instead of Quicksilver. Thor is another who is a shadow of his former self. He's now basically a poor man's version of the Dude from The Big Lebowski.

How the f*** did we go from this...







...to this?!



Thor is another character that the MCU has no idea what they were doing. Even when he was more serious in IW didn't feel any genuine, because I saw enough of him in Ragnarok to see him reduced to a joke. Sure, his earlier film appearances weren't devoid of comedy, but they didn't nearly make him a complete clown like this. Hemsworth doesn't even look like he cares any more, he mostly speaks in his natural Aussie accent nowadays. Luckily for the MCU, the masses ate it all up.

As for Cap's ending...it's shaky. Him getting together with Peggy makes Sharon Carter irrelevant as a character, who didn't even make a single appearance in these last two films. In retrospect, it's rather creepy that he'd share an intimate moment with her in CW since she's Peggy's niece.

There has been a debate whether or not the ending undermines Steve Rogers' character arc in the whole series. I can't be bothered even thinking about it, because quite honestly, I felt he got somewhat shortchanged ever since he had to share the screentime with more characters, that I simply stopped caring. He was at his best between The First Avenger and The Winter Soldier. Same thing goes for Tony Stark really - I liked how it felt that he had character arc concluding at the end of IM3, but ever since then, it felt as if he was going through the motions. Endgame's ending notwithstanding.

In the end, after all the hype over "this being a conclusion to a ten year story arc"...I don't think so. I'm not calling these twenty-odd films the Infinity Saga. In fact, I'd say the MCU was at its peak in Phase One, had a gem in TWS during Phase Two, and then "phased out" in an overstuffed, overdone Phase Three, diluting it with way too many movies with too many identical quippy characters and quite simply, got grossly overrated.

I only liked Black Panther and Doctor Strange from this era, and even they were too overpraised than they needed to be. If I look at CW as a Black Panther prequel, it's great. As a Captain America movie, it's the worst of the three films.

As for Avengers? Put it this way, if you were to tell me I'd only enjoy the first movie the most back in 2012, I'd be very disappointed. And yet, that's where I am today.

I'll say one more thing: I read The Infinity Gauntlet last year, and Thanos's defeat was a lot more psychological than anything in these two films. After his attempts to win Lady Death's affection were in vain despite he fulfilled her desire to wipe out half of the galaxy, his desire for omnipotence grows but succumbed to losing control of the Gauntlet to Nebula during a moment of triumph. He rationalises he lost the Gauntlet because he was careless, but Adam Warlock calls him out by accusing him that he relinquished all the power, because deep down, he knows he's unworthy of it. To which Thanos eventually admitted out of shame, and joins the rest of the Marvel heroes to stop Nebula from using all that inherited power to destroy the universe.

There is absolutely NO WAY the MCU would ever dare to adapt that to the big screen. No doubt in my mind audiences and mass media would've ridiculed it. Hence, we instead get this deluded self-righteous crusader trying to restore balance in the universe.

[BatmanFurst]

Here's another good one.

The tldr is that I've never been big on IM2. IM1 and IM3? Good movies. I enjoy them. IM2? Less so. This video does a pretty good job of explaining what went wrong and how it all came apart.

The film that is hinted at in this video sounds far superior to what came out in 2010.

You know what I hate? The guy that made that video and the Raimi Spidey trilogy vids is the same guy that made the "Batman 1989 is a bad Batman Film" video. I'm hard pressed to think of another YouTuber that's made videos that I love and hate to that degree. He's well spoken, and does good research but there were so many times in that Batman video where I just rolled my eyes or felt like he was missing the point.

HiTop Films is a disingenuous piece of crap who should be demonitized. I don't say that because he thinks B89 is a bad Batman film, I say that because of his misinformation over "wHy BaTmAn DoEsN't KiLl", when we've had so many instances of him doing it in comics and movies over the years, but it's only "bad" if it's in certain movies. He's a hypocritical, digital savvy equivalent to a snake oil car salesman. In fact, I'd say most - if not all - of these YouTube video essayists are full of it. It, being sh*t. Clickbait chasing trash.

I know this is off topic, but I don't want to hate too hard on the guy. His videos on the Raimi Spidey trilogy are actually pretty good. I think for me his Batman 89 video just made me realize that there are two types of Batman fans.

1. Those who are aware of the 80 years of history with the character, and come to the conclusion that there is no "real" Batman because there have been so many different versions of the character throughout the years.

2. Those who connect to one particular version of Batman and see that version as the only way to interpret or adapt the character.

Clearly HiTop Films and a slew of others fall into the latter category. I'm not saying that's right or wrong, just an observation.

[BatmanFurst]

As for Cap's ending...it's shaky. Him getting together with Peggy makes Sharon Carter irrelevant as a character, who didn't even make a single appearance in these last two films. In retrospect, it's rather creepy that he'd share an intimate moment with her in CW since she's Peggy's niece.

There has been a debate whether or not the ending undermines Steve Rogers' character arc in the whole series. I can't be bothered even thinking about it, because quite honestly, I felt he got somewhat shortchanged ever since he had to share the screentime with more characters, that I simply stopped caring. He was at his best between The First Avenger and The Winter Soldier. Same thing goes for Tony Stark really - I liked how it felt that he had character arc concluding at the end of IM3, but ever since then, it felt as if he was going through the motions. Endgame's ending notwithstanding.

I really liked Cap's ending. Having said that I think it's pretty clear that that ending wasn't a part of the plan. Taking a step back and looking at Cap's journey as a whole where he ends up doesn't line up well in regards to the other films. If they planned in that ending the entire time then why have a side romance with Sharon Carter. Why have him be content with being in the present and not wanting a normal life in Avengers 2? It doesn't make sense.

[The Laughing Fish]

I know this is off topic, but I don't want to hate too hard on the guy. His videos on the Raimi Spidey trilogy are actually pretty good. I think for me his Batman 89 video just made me realize that there are two types of Batman fans.

1. Those who are aware of the 80 years of history with the character, and come to the conclusion that there is no "real" Batman because there have been so many different versions of the character throughout the years.

2. Those who connect to one particular version of Batman and see that version as the only way to interpret or adapt the character.

Clearly HiTop Films and a slew of others fall into the latter category. I'm not saying that's right or wrong, just an observation.

I agree that there are two different types of Batman films. Arguing which interpretation is more definitive is pointless because the character has changed a lot for over 80+ years, and will continue to change for years to come. The same thing can be said for Superman, or for any comic book character for that matter.

But I think there's more to the issue than fitting fans into two groups. It's one thing to prefer an interpretation. It's another to hold it on such a high pedestal, and making dishonest content to condemn other versions for the doing the very same thing your favourite does. If HiTop Files were a Burton Batman fan, he'd take the moment of Batman saying to Catwoman "Wrong on both counts" in BR to highlight how Batman doesn't kill, while ignoring all the moments where he does.

I really liked Cap's ending. Having said that I think it's pretty clear that that ending wasn't a part of the plan. Taking a step back and looking at Cap's journey as a whole where he ends up doesn't line up well in regards to the other films. If they planned in that ending the entire time then why have a side romance with Sharon Carter. Why have him be content with being in the present and not wanting a normal life in Avengers 2? It doesn't make sense.

Well, when the directors and screenwriters don't seem to agree how the ending works, there's no wonder why Sharon and Cap's prior arc became such an afterthought.

https://bgr.com/2019/07/01/avengers-endgame-plot-explained-captain-america-time-travel-finale/

[The Laughing Fish]

Here is a video by Film Gob accusing Endgame of copying the ending of BvS.

I think he's being a bit unfair to dismiss the arc reactor with the engraving of "Proof that Tony Stark has a heart". That was a callback to the first Iron Man film.

But apart from that, I can't really deny that the similarities are too much to be a coincidence. The Russos did admit that Civil War was made because of BvS, after all.

Shady, shady Hollywood.