Most annoying character of the Burton era?

[The Laughing Fish]

If I had to figure out who was the most annoying character out of both Burton movies, it would have to be the Ice Princess. Not only she was a cartoonish airhead whose stupidity played a part in getting herself kidnapped and killed - I got to say, I've never seen such a third tier character in any movie get to be talked about so frequently and obsessed over, as her on this forum.

Who else agrees? If you don't, which character annoys you the most?

[Catwoman]

I hate the Penguin. HATE the Penguin. So much so I'll call him OSAWALD (all caps emphasizing my bratitutde) since he hated it at the end.

And yet, I squeal with glee when he bites that Josh dork's nose. So I'm going to vote him most annoying even though he has like one full line and one nose-bite interrupted line.

I liked the Princess (sometimes love the Princess) and for a time her death was a sore spot for me with this movie. I've come to actually find it kind of amusing in a deliciously f***ed up Tim Burton way. She wasn't sure on the process for lighting the tree, and of all the places she can land in Gotham Plaza, she lands on the light switch. And hey, what's wrong with cartoonish airheads? If you got a problem we can fight.

[The Laughing Fish]

I hate the Penguin. HATE the Penguin. So much so I'll call him OSAWALD (all caps emphasizing my bratitutde) since he hated it at the end.

And yet, I squeal with glee when he bites that Josh dork's nose. So I'm going to vote him most annoying even though he has like one full line and one nose-bite interrupted line.

Haha, that Josh guy was such a goof and he was rather asking for it for provoking the Penguin. What's so great about that scene is we see the Penguin exposing his true colours for the first time in public, with his disgusting eating habits and vile behaviour. But Max Shreck urges everybody to get back to work in building up Oswald's election campaign, and maintain his false image as the compassionate freak of nature. And they just do as he commands, without any objections. Which goes to show how powerful Shreck was.

Another funny thing about that yuppie Josh and that woman beside him is they try to improve the Penguin's image to impress the voters. Josh gives him the cigarette holder, similar to one he carries in the comics, but Oswald spits it out. And that woman tries to fit those five fingered gloves onto Oswald's hands, completely oblivious to the fact that they're flippers.

It's as if Tim Burton was trying to say "this isn't the comic book Penguin, and if you don't like it, too bad". But then again, I might be overthinking it.

[thecolorsblend]

I disagree. This more or less was the comic book Penguin... with much-needed additional character development because, frankly, the comic book version of that time was rather light on character development. Burton kept the character's taste for high society while also giving him a plausible motive to turn his back on it... but only after high society turned its collective back on him. Of everything Burton did with the character, I'm at a loss to think of anything that is absolutely contrary to the comics.

I think the fact that variations on this version of the Penguin have appeared in The Long Halloween, Batman- The Dark Knight vol. 01 and other comics is a good indication of what staying power the Burton version has. Remarkable, really.

[The Laughing Fish]

I disagree. This more or less was the comic book Penguin... with much-needed additional character development because, frankly, the comic book version of that time was rather light on character development.

I don't fully buy the idea of the comic book Penguin was light on character development during that era. In 1986's Secret Origins Special, Oswald Cobblepot used to be tormented by his childhood bully who mocked him for his physical stature, which inspired him to use the Penguin name he was constantly taunted with and adopt it as his own. Penguin trained himself in peak condition to get revenge at the bully when he got older, but it resulted in the retaliation of getting his beloved pet birds killed. His bully, who grew up to become a felon himself, is captured and tortured by the Penguin, and later left for dead.

With that all said, I prefer DeVito's version. I don't mind the Secret Origins version, but it's a bit of a cliche origin story. It's still character development, but it is predictable: kid gets picked on and becomes an outlaw because he's used to being an outcast. DeVito's version is a lot more fascinating for all things you point out, and it all stems from deprivation. As if he's close to an evil equivalent to John Merrick as you can find.

I think the fact that variations on this version of the Penguin have appeared in The Long Halloween, Batman- The Dark Knight vol. 01 and other comics is a good indication of what staying power the Burton version has. Remarkable, really.

Let's also remember DeVito's Penguin had a strong resemblance to the cartoon version in BTAS.

[The Joker]

Selina Kyle's (boy)friend from her answering machine.

Canceling their planned vacation without warning, and referring to Selina as a 'appendage', makes the guy come across as a complete tool (and a textbook self loathing closet case).

I mean this is 1992 Michelle Pfieffer we're talking about here. Blasphemy!

[thecolorsblend]

Selina's nameless boyfriend was, I thought, sort of a riff on the then emerging trend of people going to therapy for no comprehensible reason, in effect receiving vapid "life coach" advice, treating said advice as though its a divinely revealed scripture or something and then acting upon the advice in the most spineless way. Arguably it's gotten even worse now but it was a trend even at the time. And one that, oddly enough, never received as much lampooning as it likely deserved.

BR is one of the few representations of that trend which actually casts an implicitly critical eye on the trend. The viewer is not meant to sympathize with Selina's weasel of a boyfriend in that sequence.

A corollary for this thing among parents was the fad of putting their kids, particularly boys, on Ritalin as part of some vapid trend to keep up with the Joneses. When I was in the 2nd grade, I knew practically nobody who was on some sort of psycho-therapy prescription. When I was in the 4th grade, I knew practically no boy who wasn't being treated for something or other, God only knows.

Likely unnecessary therapy was the order of the day back in the late 80's and early 90's. And Boomers indulged in recreational psychiatry like Vikings on a rampage.

[The Joker]

Typical late response from me, but yeah, that makes sense.

Kinda reminds me of a George Carlin bit from a HBO stand up special back in the '90s where he brought up this same very topic, and how parents were essentially molding their kids into cult objects with all the psycho-therapy and going overboard on having everything structured in their lives, where nearly everything is scheduled. Including something as ordinary as playtime.

[Andrew]

The Ice Princess was too rarely featured to be really annoying. Knox I did find annoying, not *real* bad in himself but still annoying and especially too featured and focused on.

[The Dark Knight]

The Ice Princess was too rarely featured to be really annoying. Knox I did find annoying, not *real* bad in himself but still annoying and especially too featured and focused on.

I get the impression he's good at his job and has a lot of confidence because of that. He's not a one dimensional clown who overrates his ability in the newsroom. My thoughts below are the same today:

I'm not going for one moment, I'm going for one man. Knox. I couldn't imagine B89 without him. His voice, appearance and general personality somehow match and even elevate the atmosphere of the film. Yes, he's funny, but he's dedicated to the job at hand and towards the end he's even sympathetic. When he's fighting back against the goons with the baseball bat you root for the guy, and when he's thrown off the car (and vulnerable to the gas) you want him to be safe. He cares for Vicki and has this emotional believability to him. Really underrated performance.