Fighting Style of the Burton Batman

[The Dark Knight]

For someone Keaton's age, stamina and physical strength will always be liabilities. There are 70 year olds out there who can probably eat your sack lunch. But they'll use specific methods because they have specific limitations.

A continuation of the Burtonverse model would suit a 70 year old Keaton just fine.

Standing on the spot, raising his fists and waiting for the combatant to approach.
Raising a gauntlet to put down the somersaulting cathedral goon.
Throwing a remote control batarang.
Placing the bomb in the Strongman's pants.

And so forth. You get the idea.

If he does have a big dukeroo, I'd go for something like the Ray Charles bout during his last night out. He mostly gets his ass kicked but manages to endure the punishment, with the Batmobile or some other gadget saving his life. Heart trouble at the beginning of the encounter would be the catalyst, just as the batwing crash was the disadvantage in B89.

[Silver Nemesis]

I'm less convinced about Jujutsu, Brazilian jiu-jitsu and similar schools. Their emphasis on grappling, locks, ground fighting, etc all seem like a young man's game to me. Very taxing on strength and endurance that he doesn't necessarily have. I think aged Batman needs a dividend that those schools just can't provide anymore.

When you have two equally skilled practitioners, then size and strength can be important factors. However back when I was training in Ju-Jitsu, I remember hearing a report of a female practitioner who fended off a large male attacker who broke into her home. Many Ju-Jitsu techniques entail using your opponent's bodyweight against them, exploiting joints and striking nerve clusters. When used against someone who's never trained in it, you can easily catch them off guard. It doesn't matter how big your enemy is – trap them in a wristlock and you can force them to their knees. Unless of course they've trained in the same technique, in which case the altercation is likely to progress into clinching and ground fighting. That's where strength and size can determine the outcome. Knowledge of Ju-Jitsu would be useful for Bat-Keats, if only as a defence against someone else trying to use it on him. Grappling isn't his strong point, as we saw when he fought Ray Charles and the Penguin, so he'd benefit from some extra training in that area.

In Batman 89 Bruce uses stealth and theatricality to get the edge on his opponents. He usually only takes on one or two of them at a time. In Batman Returns he's less subtle. This was the Burton Batman in his prime, and during the movie's biggest fight scene he casually positions himself in the middle of a street and waits for half of the circus gang to attack him at once. Take into account that these are trained fighters armed with weapons ranging from knives and crossbows to bazookas. Evidently Batman's confidence increased considerably between the 1989 film and BR.

By my count Batman takes down 13 goons in under 70 seconds, which means he averages approximately 5 seconds dismantling each opponent. The Batman in Flashpoint should be incapable of this due to his declining speed, agility and stamina. He should retain the strength and skill of his youth, but should tire more quickly and display a greater dependency on weapons and trickery. The sequence where Batman picks off the criminals on the construction site in the first chapter of The Dark Knight Returns is a good example of how he should operate.

When discussing older action heroes who can still school men less than half their age, we'd be remiss for not citing an example by the GOAT himself.

He intercepts his opponent's strike and exploits his size and weight to draw him off balance, traps him with a joint lock, then finishes him with off with a punch. This is how the older Burton Batman should fight. It'd be better if he only took on one opponent at a time, or at most a small group of two or three, and he should make careful use of stealth and bat-artillery. There's an opportunity here to really emphasise the mental side of Batman's abilities. Show him to be a brilliant detective and ingenious tactician to a degree that no previous film has shown. His intelligence should be reflected in his strategic and minimalistic approach to combat.

Of course if the rumours are true about him wearing the Kingdom Come suit, then we might not get to see much hand-to-hand combat in Flashpoint anyway. That's why I'd rather he wore a more traditional suit in Flashpoint and saved the KC armour for a later film like Batman Beyond of a Kingdom Come Justice League movie.

[The Dark Knight]

Of course if the rumours are true about him wearing the Kingdom Come suit, then we might not get to see much hand-to-hand combat in Flashpoint anyway. That's why I'd rather he wore a more traditional suit in Flashpoint and saved the KC armour for a later film like Batman Beyond of a Kingdom Come Justice League movie.

I've been entertaining various ideas. If Keaton has been fighting crime for 30 years I quite like the idea we meet him in the Kingdom Come suit already, and perhaps with the exoskeleton. To show the toll the war has taken on his body, but not his mind. Bale needed this equipment because he was lazy, whereas Keaton would need it because he didn't give up. Batfleck has already used the abandoned Wayne Manor angle, so I wouldn't be advocating for that again, and so soon. I think everything else with Kingdom Come Batman is fair game though. Referring to himself as Batman full time would also be a meta reference to Keaton's own statements in real life, and of course circling back to B89's first scene. I think the fans would love that. That Bruce being known as Batman didn't limit his ability to do business with people like Lex, and it really would be something different. Burton's Bruce did find it hard to keep a lid on hid double life. "I don't have a crime boss like Cobblepot in my corner" - "Oswald controls the Red Triangle Circus Gang, I can't prove it yet".

[Silver Nemesis]

Some of our regulars might be interested to know that this discussion has been referenced on a couple of other web sites. The Heroes Wiki lists most of the martial arts we identified in this thread under the section on the Burton Batman's fighting abilities. I'm assuming they got this info from us, since I'm not aware of anyone else analysing the fighting style of the Burton Batman in this much depth before we did. Their list mostly corresponds with ours.

https://hero.fandom.com/wiki/Batman_(Burton/Schumacherverse)#Abilities

Meanwhile an article was posted on Screen Rant last month titled '10 Things You Didn't Notice About Batman's Fighting Style'. No 2 on the list is all about the Burton Batman, and the author of the article was courteous enough to provide a link to this thread when citing their source.

https://screenrant.com/dc-comics-batman-fighting-style-moments/

We might not be the biggest Batman site, but evidently people do read the things we post here. We'll have to update our analysis when the Batman '89 comic comes out, and then again for The Flash movie.

[thecolorsblend]

Some of our regulars might be interested to know that this discussion has been referenced on a couple of other web sites. The Heroes Wiki lists most of the martial arts we identified in this thread under the section on the Burton Batman's fighting abilities. I'm assuming they got this info from us, since I'm not aware of anyone else analysing the fighting style of the Burton Batman in this much depth before we did. Their list mostly corresponds with ours.

https://hero.fandom.com/wiki/Batman_(Burton/Schumacherverse)#Abilities

Meanwhile an article was posted on Screen Rant last month titled '10 Things You Didn't Notice About Batman's Fighting Style'. No 2 on the list is all about the Burton Batman, and the author of the article was courteous enough to provide a link to this thread when citing their source.

https://screenrant.com/dc-comics-batman-fighting-style-moments/

We might not be the biggest Batman site, but evidently people do read the things we post here. We'll have to update our analysis when the Batman '89 comic comes out, and then again for The Flash movie.

Screen Rant attributing sources? Wonders will never cease. I still consider them a bottom-feeding website. But they did the right thing there. Credit where it's due.

Ryan George remains the least funny man to ever attempt comedy tho. And to put that in perspective, his competition includes Will Ferrell.

[Silver Nemesis]

So far the Batman '89 comic hasn't offered much expansion on the Burton Batman's fighting style, so in the absence of anything more meaningful to analyse I thought now might be a good time to look at some of the more recent martial arts scenes Keaton's performed in other movies. Most of his fighting in The Flash will likely be performed by stunt doubles, but hopefully he'll be able to do at least some of it himself. None of the Batman actors were particularly impressive screen fighters (hence the importance of their stunt doubles), and Keaton is no exception. But he did perform a respectable amount of the choreography in the old Batman movies, and he acquits himself well in these more recent fight scenes too. Take into account that he's in his mid-to-late sixties in these clips and that he's fighting much younger opponents.

First up is American Assassin (2017). This fight scene is mostly between Scott Adkins and Dylan O'Brien, but Keaton does get in on the action a little. The fighting style he uses here is based on Special Forces CQC techniques.

Next up is Martin Campbell's The Protégé (2021). The choreography in this film places a prominent emphasis on improvised weaponry and effective use of environmental factors. According to Campbell, Keaton did a lot of the fighting himself:

"Michael keeps himself fit," Campbell said via a Zoom call. "He's in very good condition. And if actors commit to doing action, that's a huge advantage. Some actors merely say, 'Well you can use my double here.' Michael really got into it. He worked very hard to make it convincing. A lot of the punch-ups and so forth, he did them himself."

https://www.btlnews.com/industry-sector/film/martin-campbell-arthur-sarkissian-protege/

Here's Keaton versus a group of assassins.

And here's Keaton versus Maggie Q.

I don't know if any of these clips offer insight into what Batman's fighting style will be like in The Flash. What they do show is that Keaton's in solid shape for a man his age, and that he's still capable of pulling off a decent fight scene.

[Silver Nemesis]

I've been checking out some versus threads on other sites, and quite a few people are proclaiming Keaton to be the most powerful live action Batman after his abilities got amped in The Flash. I'm not sure he's as powerful as West's version, but I'd say he's definitely leapt to the top of the WB movie leaderboard.

Before now I would have said that Batfleck beating Superman was the most impressive combat feat for any live action Batman. But now (SPOILERS for The Flash) I'd say Keaton subduing Nam-Ek is an even more impressive feat, for the following reasons:

•   Batfleck had kryptonite, Keaton didn't.
•   Batfleck had mech armour and other special weapons custom built for dealing with a Kryptonian, whereas Keaton just had his regular batsuit and standard equipment.
•   Batfleck had months of prep time, whereas Keaton's fight was a random encounter.
•   Superman wasn't trying to kill Batfleck, whereas Nam-Ek was definitely trying to kill Keaton.
•   Superman wasn't as heavily armoured as Nam-Ek, who was covered from head to toe in Kryptonian armour.
•   It took Batfleck the best part of ten minutes to subdue Superman, whereas Keaton, once he got up close with Nam-Ek, was able to knock him out in less than a minute.
•   Batfleck was still in his prime, while Keaton was old and out of practice after being retired.

Before The Flash I would've bet on Affleck's Batman to beat Keaton's in a fight. But now, my money would be on Keaton.

[The Joker]

Nice analytical observations between Batkeats and Batfleck, Silver! I hadn't honestly really thought about it that much before reading your post, but you've convinced me. 

Keaton's Batman wins. Perfect!

[The Dark Knight]

It's cool to see Keaton fighting this way. But at the same time if I'm being honest the movie has him moving too fast. Especially when he's throwing the batarangs and using the grapnel in combat. They don't highlight the obvious fact he's older - instead his age means nothing. I would've been fine with something equally badass from an experienced veteran but slower.

[eledoremassis02]

It's cool to see Keaton fighting this way. But at the same time if I'm being honest the movie has him moving too fast. Especially when he's throwing the batarangs and using the grapnel in combat. They don't highlight the obvious fact he's older - instead his age means nothing. I would've been fine with something equally badass from an experienced veteran but slower.

I suspected a short of beyond tec