Fighting Style of the Burton Batman

[The Dark Knight]

Moving on to the DCEU, I'm going to skip the Superman battle because kryptonite renders skill irrelevant in that scenario. Regarding the warehouse fight, I don't think the Burton Batman could have taken down that many villains all at once the way Batfleck did, and certainly not in the time needed to save Martha Kent. I also don't think the Burton Batman would have survived going up against Doomsday. Batfleck only survived because he was fast and agile enough to dodge Doomsday's heat vision. But Bat-Keaton can't move like. He'd have been toast.

Similarly he wouldn't have lasted long against Steppenwolf and the Parademons. The Burton Batman could probably have defeated that first Parademon on the rooftops of Gotham. But once they started swarming him en masse their superior manoeuvrability and strength would overwhelm him. He might have survived going up against Steppenwolf, as the Burton Batman has metahuman levels of durability (see the Batwing crash for proof of this), but there's no way he'd defeat Steppenwolf.

What does everyone else think?

His best bet would be with some type of gadget or vehicle (any incarnation really, methods just differ).

West would reflect light off his highly polished utility belt, blinding Steppenwolf, as Robin shoots him with the bat ray.

[Silver Nemesis]

His best bet would be with some type of gadget or vehicle (any incarnation really, methods just differ).

The Burton Batman would probably send the Batmobile in on remote control like he did at Axis Chemicals. And while this distracted/incapacitated the main group of henchmen, he'd sneak in and deal with KGBeast in person, similar to how he rescued Selina from the clown in Batman Returns. With the aid of his vehicles and gadgets, he probably could have saved Martha. But he would have needed a different strategy from the one used by Batfleck.

West would reflect light off his highly polished utility belt, blinding Steppenwolf, as Robin shoots him with the bat ray.

Lol. I can totally imagine this happening.

West regularly battled Darkseid in the Galactic Guardians cartoon show back in the eighties, so I don't think Steppenwolf would be a problem for him. Ok, technically that wasn't the same Batman from the sixties TV show, but it was still West voicing him. West's physical feats in the sixties show were legit metahuman anyway. His reflexes were so fast he could whip out the Bat-shield and use it to deflect machine gun fire at close range. He was more agile than the Burton or Nolan Batmen, and with the aid of the Bat-rope and Bat-springs he was able to leap through the air with singular ease.

He was so strong he could casually throw heavy barbells several metres through the air as if they weighed nothing at all.

And as for durability – well how many other Batmen could endure having an explosive shark gnaw on their leg and emerge from the encounter without so much as a scratch? West and Affleck are the only live action Batmen that would stand a chance against Steppenwolf. And West probably had the best chance of actually beating him.

[thecolorsblend]

I'm not aware of the West Batman ever loosing a fight. He fought the Green Hornet to a standstill but there wasn't really a chance to finish it properly anyway.

Wondering how he'd do against Bane, first there's the reality that Bale's Batman was physically compromised and couldn't give Bane his best fight. So that's a lopsided comparison anyway. West's Batman also fights like a young man, nothing held back. But unlike Bale, West was not above using gadgets, smoke bombs and all that stuff to stun and overwhelm his opponents.

The fact that he kept himself physically fit and was a legit genius-level intellect meant he would've probably devised a few different ways of overcoming Bane. One of the most obvious vulnerabilities West's Batman would've focused in on is Bane's mask. I think West would've prioritized that early on and pounded away at the mask until Bane had been subdued.

From a tactical standpoint, I think West might even have employed a few similar tactics as Bale. He would've flooded Bane and his henchmen with police in order to occupy the League, distract Bane and wear down at least some of his agility before moving in himself. Then he would've used smoke bombs, batarangs and other things to chip away at Bane's defenses before moving in to finish him off with his fists.

It would've been a viable plan. Worst case scenario, Batman could've positioned Robin to fire off some kind of knock out gas to subdue Bane if the fight turned the other way. But I honestly don't think it would've been necessary.

[Silver Nemesis]

The fact that he kept himself physically fit and was a legit genius-level intellect meant he would've probably devised a few different ways of overcoming Bane. One of the most obvious vulnerabilities West's Batman would've focused in on is Bane's mask. I think West would've prioritized that early on and pounded away at the mask until Bane had been subdued.

It would've been a viable plan. Worst case scenario, Batman could've positioned Robin to fire off some kind of knock out gas to subdue Bane if the fight turned the other way. But I honestly don't think it would've been necessary.

Agreed. In the Batman '66 comic the West Batman was able to endure Bane's backbreaker attack without sustaining any injuries. I don't think the Nolanverse Bane would cause him too much trouble. Even if he was losing in combat, Bat-West could always dose Bane with his universal Bat-antidote to counteract the effects of his anaesthetic. That would weaken him as surely as destroying his mask.

Either way, West wins.

[The Dark Knight]

He was so strong he could casually throw heavy barbells several metres through the air as if they weighed nothing at all.

West's Batman was very strong. How strong? Robin was tied down on a printing press and about to become a comic book. Joker's two robots were trying to force Bruce Wayne to pull the lever to kill Robin. These robots were previously shown to bend and twist steel bars with ease. Bruce resisted two of these robots, who were pushing against his arm with all of their force, keeping the printing press lever at half way despite their best efforts. Based on this, West could hang with just about anybody.

[Silver Nemesis]

I'd forgotten about that scene. Another good example of his superhuman strength can be found in the episode 'The Penguin Declines' where he breaks free of his metal chains by snapping them with pure brute force. West's Batman really was the GOAT.

[The Dark Knight]

Some can say the show was a parody, a grossly exaggerated version of reality that can't be taken seriously. But that is beside the point. We can only judge what is on the screen. West is the GOAT because he is adept across all areas. This man can run his guts out across the City, overtaking cars, and not break a sweat. He doesn't complain. He keeps a placid face and soldiers on. Why does he do it? Two simple reasons: because he has the ability to do it, and he isn't going to let the criminals win. If he has to run around the City 50 more times at the same speed he will do so.

This man is a public figure who has been made a deputy by the police department. Is he going to be the reason why evil wins? Is he going to let down the youngsters who admire him? To these questions, it's always a big fat NO. So he shoulders ANY burden and pushes through ANY roadblock put in front of him. Because if he doesn't, evil wins. West is a man who achieves the impossible because he refuses to accept defeat. Defeat is just not an option.

People can point and laugh at his costume all they want because West takes his responsibilities seriously. The bottom line with West boils down to this: the man with a cool head who thinks through his problems usually emerges victorious.

[thecolorsblend]

Circling back to the Taekwondo discussion, it appears that I'm not alone in my critique of the school's reliance on kicks. Taekwondo comes up in a Rogan discussion at the 04:50 mark in this video and Rogan is pretty open about the school's limitations, particularly with the relative lack of hand strikes.

EDIT- I'll find the proper Rogan video another time

Tbh, I have to piggyback on their critique and say I agree. I was instructed in taegeuk taekwondo and even as a kid I recognized that the taeguk forms are next door neighbors with Absolutely Useless. If a form is meant to teach muscle memory then the only fair assessment of taeguk forms is they're woefully outdated. Borderline anachronistic in the modern western world, frankly.

To tie all of this back to the subject at hand, I think Keaton's Batman would understand the limitations of taekwondo (particularly the taegeuk version) so he'd study it, absorb the useful strikes and kicks and then eschew everything else.

Shooting from the hip, I'll suggest that Keaton's Batman studied some school or another of taekwondo (taegeuk is my best guess) for six months, MAYBE a year, and then moved on to something else. I just can't believe he would need or want any longer study of this particular martial art than that.

In fact, after learning all these different fighting styles, I think it's realistic to believe Batman ended his overseas training and then returned home to build the bat-suit and then figure out how to incorporate all of the useful elements of the different styles he'd learned into something practical to use in his mission. That process alone probably required a full year of intensive study and labor on his part.

[Silver Nemesis]

If recent news pans out, and the Burton Batman returns, how would you like to see his fighting style modified to accommodate his advancing years? Or should he just fight exactly like he did in the old films? A part of me would love to see the Flashpoint stunt team try to outdo the warehouse fight from BvS, but another part of me thinks the Keaton Batman's fighting style should be more appropriate for his age. Keaton is pushing seventy after all, and the Flashpoint Batman in the comics was also meant to be older and past his prime.

The Flashpoint Batman's fighting style largely consisted of punches, joint locks and throws, supplemented by the use of poison-tipped Batarangs. It was basically a mixture of Ninjutsu, Ju-Jitsu, Shurikenjutsu and boxing. This would be perfect for the ageing Burton Batman.

I think his approach to combat should have a more mysterious edge now that he's older, employing nerve strikes and joint locks to strategically incapacitate his opponents with minimal effort.

Jujitsu, Chin Na, Judo and Jeet Kune Do would all be good martial arts for this type of technique. If Keaton's Batman combined one of these disciplines with the kickboxing/street fighting style he used in the earlier films, then the result would be pretty similar to what we see in The Dark Knight Returns – a calm, strategic CQC technique that emphasises stealth and concise, brutal takedowns over flashy acrobatics or needless energy expenditure. An increased emphasis on Aikido would also be appropriate for his age, allowing him to turn the momentum of his enemies' attacks back against them.

[thecolorsblend]

For someone Keaton's age, stamina and physical strength will always be liabilities. There are 70 year olds out there who can probably eat your sack lunch. But they'll use specific methods because they have specific limitations.

In relation to that, I think Keaton's Batman would favor engagements where he can face a very limited number of opponents at one time. And when he does so, it would have to be quick and efficient. He would need to utilize strikes that immediately incapacitate his opponents with only a modest expenditure of energy on his part. Efficiency is the watch word here.

So as you imply, something like Wushu is probably out.

I suggested earlier that Keaton's Batman has a heavier reliance on boxing than most other Batmen. I stand by that and at 70, he'll need the boxing training more than ever. So that's definitely in.

My understanding is that ninjutsu favors unconventional tactics, elements of surprise and the like. It's almost more like a philosophy than a martial art. This ties in with my hunch that 70 year old Keaton Batman needs to turn the tables on his opponents. Perhaps set traps for his opponents in highly controlled situations. Whereas B89 Batman might be able to swing into a gang of eight opponents and take them all on, 70 year old Batman needs to bunch them together in a hot spot rigged with, idk, explosives, flash grenades, booby traps and so forth to thin the herd while he engages two or three opponents in brief, surgical strikes, devastating them with his speed and efficiency.

Shuriken play an indispensable role in that, no question.

I'm less convinced about Jujutsu, Brazilian jiu-jitsu and similar schools. Their emphasis on grappling, locks, ground fighting, etc all seem like a young man's game to me. Very taxing on strength and endurance that he doesn't necessarily have. I think aged Batman needs a dividend that those schools just can't provide anymore.

I think in his twilight years, Batman would favor something less exhausting. For combat, I think his reliance on karate would probably triple as compared to his younger years when he had greater mobility, flexibility, endurance, physical strength, etc.

The beauty of karate for me has always been its simplicity. A master might be able to stay more or less in one fixed location, thereby eliminating energy-intensive movements, postures, etc. The school's reliance primarily on hand strikes rather than kicks, flips and other nonsense would also be attractive for energy-conservation.

Combining a Miyagi-level mastery of karate with the above ninjutsu, shurikenjutsu and heaping helpings of Judo would be aged Batman's primary tools, I think. The nerve cluster strike Batman uses on the Mutant Leader in TDKR could be taken from a few different schools. I could see strikes like that originating from karate, or at least being a strike that a karate master would glom onto after a while.

So yeah, unless I'm overestimating aged Batman's weaknesses and physical limitations, I think a healthy blend of boxing, karate, ninjutsu, shurikenjutsu and Judo would be his main workhorses. Possibly Tai Chi for therapy purposes only.

My bias in this is that I'm a huge believer in karate. An authentic master would probably be able to hold his own against at least 90% of street lowlifes. And for that remaining 10%, there are the other tactics I mentioned.