The Halloween Franchise

[The Joker]

It's a practical decision as much as anything else. I have far more hard drive space available than I do shelf space. We all make compromises in life.

Understandable.

I plan on getting (probably) a 5TB external hard drive this Christmas. I've downloaded quite a number of videos/documentaries from Youtube, Dailymotion, Bitchute, ect and initially thought I would burn them to DVD-R's, but I have waaaay too much data for something like that. I've accepted just putting whatever on a portable USB stick if I want to watch it, since most players have that port on them now. Pretty much the only exceptions where I'll burn a DVD-R these days, is usually for a movie I would have to REALLY like, and put extras like viral ads, teasers/trailers (shame most of the time these are exempt on blu/dvd/4K), cast/director interviews, and maybe any mini documentary about the film I might find on youtube that's deemed worthy. Essentially a custom "bonus extras" disc, which I just store inside the official release case.

I do not. Aside from the fact that it exists, I can't say that I know much about it. I assume there are differences between that and the theatrical and director's cuts?

It's not as fresh in my mind the differences, Zombie's various cuts of his 2007 reboot kinda run all together in my head, but I do remember the opening dolly track shot featuring the Myers house, with "Monster Mash" playing. The workprint actually has opening titles, which don't start until, following Michael's mother being called to the school, and Michael is waiting outside the principals office. If I recall correctly, right as kid Michael begins running down the school hallway, it freeze frames with the "Halloween" title at that point. With the rest of the opening credits playing out during the scenes with the one school bully leaving the school, picks on other kids, and pretty much ending right before the 'Michael kills the  school bully' scene.

I'm pretty sure there are others, but yeah, the movie plays a little bit different with each cut as some things are very much exclusive to each cut. I would say it's worth tracking down if you can find it. If you can't, let me know. I recently put it on a backup hard drive for safe keeping. I'm sure I can probably upload it Megaupload or something. 

Always thought Resurrection was a shame, personally. Is it great? No. For that matter, it's not even very good. But I don't think it should've been a franchise-killer.

I mean, I don't care what anybody says. Halloween 5 is the worst Halloween movie ever made. Basically every creative decision in that movie is pure garbage. By comparison, Resurrection might not be high art. But it's watchable. I can even enjoy Resurrection on a "This is a bad movie but I kind of like it anyway" sort of way. I cannot derive any such enjoyment from H5. I have my share of disagreements with Zombie's movies but I can let that stuff slide.

With Halloween 5? I can't let anything slide. It's just BAD, period.

I honestly go back and forth between H5 and Resurrection on which is the absolute worst. I mean, I will say that Resurrection is better made, it's more aesthetically pleasing to look at, as H5 looks like absolute garbage (even with a 4K release, I can't imagine the movie still not looking like trash), but the plot of HResurrection reads like a Madtv/SCTv plot. Not to mention the elephant in the room with Busta Rhymes actually getting the better of Michael Myers in a physical confrontation. As a Halloween fan, it's damn right EMBARRASSING even almost 20 years later, and I still groan and roll my eyes whenever I do happen to watch HRessurrection because of that. It's outright bewildering that Moustapha Akkad actually Ok'd that. Especially with how protective Moustapha was with the franchise. Hell, I'm not even sure Frank Mancuso Jr. would have approved of something like that when "Friday the 13th" and Jason Voorhees was under the Paramount umbrella, and he was much more hands off than Mr. Akkad. Just absolutely amazing.

H5 is crap, and again, looks like absolute trash. There is very, very little to really like about it. Unfortunately, or fortunately, I think because it's essentially the middle act of the entire "Thorn Trilogy" (H4-H5-H6) within the Halloween franchise, H5's ties with it's predecessor (H4) and successor (H6), both of which are better movies, is what keeps it sorta viable. Cause otherwise, I agree, it's garbage. Knowing what I know now, I realize the entire deal with the tattoo and Man in Black was a complete clusterF behind the scenes, but I do recall theorizing for years just what all that meant (especially with just who the Man in Black was). With my own personal theorizes varying wildly as a kid. However, the H5 mask is and will forever be appalling to look at, and the whole deal with Michael shedding a tear is on par with Busta Rhymes beating Michael's ass in Resurrection. Perhaps even worse. Just awful.

On the flip side, H5 does feature Danielle Harris as Jamie for the last time, in addition to featuring the last appearance of Donald Pleasence as "classic Loomis" (with the trenchcoat look). I just wish the movie would have been better made to have served them better. I think Danielle was very good with what she was provided. Especially for being so young at the time. I think one of the very few scenes I thought had any sort of weight, was that one scene where Jamie discovers the dead body of Max the dog, and screams out, "Max!". I don't know, something about a scene where a child finds a dead dog/cat has a element of being heartbreaking. I think it's safe to say that H5 featured Dr. Loomis at his most unhinged to say the least. On a lighter note, for some reason, I still find that one kid's delivery of, "Jamie, are you ok?" absolutely hysterical. Definitely one of the few good parts to me.

It's really a toss up with me on which is worst. I don't find HResurrection quite the chore to watch as H5 is, probably due to HResurrection being more aesthetically pleasing to look at as far as a movie goes, but again, the plot and Busta Rhymes crap really kills it for me.

I guess it just depends on my mood on any given day on which is worst for me.

[thecolorsblend]

Halloween Kills is downloading in my iTunes right now. I got the announcement on my phone that my pre-order was available now at 11:19 my time.

Obviously, I have no intention of watching it tonight. But I'll probably give it a look tomorrow (or the day after) and let you all know what I think.

[thecolorsblend]

Not to mention the elephant in the room with Busta Rhymes actually getting the better of Michael Myers in a physical confrontation. As a Halloween fan, it's damn right EMBARRASSING even almost 20 years later, and I still groan and roll my eyes whenever I do happen to watch HRessurrection because of that. It's outright bewildering that Moustapha Akkad actually Ok'd that. Especially with how protective Moustapha was with the franchise. Hell, I'm not even sure Frank Mancuso Jr. would have approved of something like that when "Friday the 13th" and Jason Voorhees was under the Paramount umbrella, and he was much more hands off than Mr. Akkad. Just absolutely amazing.

I want to be careful in how I say this. Because there's the possibility of being misunderstood.

But with these big famous slashers, I actually don't mind when a character BRIEFLY gains the upper hand over The Slasher through dumb luck and the element of surprise. John and Molly BRIEFLY overpowering Michael in H20 works for me because it wasn't a real fight, there were two of them, they got super lucky and they used the opportunity to make a run for it. As it should be.

Like you say tho, Busta Rhymes going toe-to-toe with Michael in a fight AND WINNING is... just too much. That's just a whole nother ball game.

Halloween Kills is downloading in my iTunes right now. I got the announcement on my phone that my pre-order was available now at 11:19 my time.

Obviously, I have no intention of watching it tonight. But I'll probably give it a look tomorrow (or the day after) and let you all know what I think.

Golly. Totally forgot to follow up on this.

Okay, so if anything, HK benefited from a second viewing. I never had a problem with the movie. But it gets even better on the second viewing. Michael is PISSED after nearly dying in H2018 and he pulls no punches, as it were, here in HK. Carnage candy, as the saying goes. I love it!

Now, I've only seen the theatrical cut once. What I bought on iTunes was the extended cut. What are the differences between the theatrical and extended cuts? This is the best resource I've been able to find:

https://www.movie-censorship.com/report.php?ID=780565

Bottom line, minor amounts of extra footage here and there and then a pretty significantly different final scene before credits roll. Otherwise, it's basically the same movie.

My guess is that the extended version was Green's preferred cut at one point. But cuts were made (A) possibly to appease the ratings board and (B) Green wanted Halloween Ends to comfortably jump forward to 2022 and there's just no way to reconcile the urgency of Laurie's final scene in HK with a four year flashforward. Ergo, the phone call moment was cut.

Further, the theatrical cut is canonical to HE. Something to be aware of there.

HK being as good as it is isn't a small feat. Historically, speaking only for myself, two good Halloween movies have never existed back-to-back. H78 is awesome; Halloween II is p00p, imo. Halloween IV is awesome; I think we all know what I think of H5 by now. H20 is a triumph; Resurrection is, well, not a triumph. So, for H2018 (a quality movie) to be followed up with HK (also a quality movie) is unprecedented in my experience. Ymmv.

All in all, I was perfectly satisfied with HK back when I watched in October and nothing much has changed since then. I enjoy the movie and am anticipating HE.

After that... well, it sounds like Jamie Lee Curtis will be truly done with Laurie Strode. Which means there will probably be some kind of reboot eventually. I'm fine with that, honestly. There are plenty of ways keeping this franchise alive, whether it's a reboot or whether it's a sequel to HE. Either way, the Halloween series is a SURVIVOR and I'm enjoying its newest lease on life.

[The Joker]

Okay, so if anything, HK benefited from a second viewing. I never had a problem with the movie. But it gets even better on the second viewing. Michael is PISSED after nearly dying in H2018 and he pulls no punches, as it were, here in HK. Carnage candy, as the saying goes. I love it!

Now, I've only seen the theatrical cut once. What I bought on iTunes was the extended cut. What are the differences between the theatrical and extended cuts? This is the best resource I've been able to find:

https://www.movie-censorship.com/report.php?ID=780565

Bottom line, minor amounts of extra footage here and there and then a pretty significantly different final scene before credits roll. Otherwise, it's basically the same movie.

My guess is that the extended version was Green's preferred cut at one point. But cuts were made (A) possibly to appease the ratings board and (B) Green wanted Halloween Ends to comfortably jump forward to 2022 and there's just no way to reconcile the urgency of Laurie's final scene in HK with a four year flashforward. Ergo, the phone call moment was cut.

Further, the theatrical cut is canonical to HE. Something to be aware of there.

HK being as good as it is isn't a small feat. Historically, speaking only for myself, two good Halloween movies have never existed back-to-back. H78 is awesome; Halloween II is p00p, imo. Halloween IV is awesome; I think we all know what I think of H5 by now. H20 is a triumph; Resurrection is, well, not a triumph. So, for H2018 (a quality movie) to be followed up with HK (also a quality movie) is unprecedented in my experience. Ymmv.

All in all, I was perfectly satisfied with HK back when I watched in October and nothing much has changed since then. I enjoy the movie and am anticipating HE.

After that... well, it sounds like Jamie Lee Curtis will be truly done with Laurie Strode. Which means there will probably be some kind of reboot eventually. I'm fine with that, honestly. There are plenty of ways keeping this franchise alive, whether it's a reboot or whether it's a sequel to HE. Either way, the Halloween series is a SURVIVOR and I'm enjoying its newest lease on life.

Very cool.

I thought the Extended Cut ending with the phone call, and the freeze frame zoom like in H2018 more or less had a stronger punch to it, but as you say, it's understandable given the time jump deal with HE.

I've read some fans speculating that there's a possibility that following HE, Halloween will revert back to the Thorn timeline, but I have a really hard time thinking that's even reasonably realistic. Whomever would REALLY have to be clever to get something like that to work without confusing the casual audience. A reboot is the most tenable route. Cleaner and safer.

[thecolorsblend]

I've read some fans speculating that there's a possibility that following HE, Halloween will revert back to the Thorn timeline, but I have a really hard time thinking that's even reasonably realistic.

Must've missed that. I understand that the Thorn movies have their fair share of fans. But they're a rarity among the fanbase, I would imagine. Plus, most people just haven't seen them. I'll defend H4 all day long. But let's face it, H5 and H6 are just plain BAD.

Heh, it might be sort of funny if they resurrect (hehe) the H20 timeline. What's Josh Hartnett up to these days, you know?

A reboot is the most tenable route. Cleaner and safer.

Pretty much. I can buy into the idea of an elder Michael Myers for this current series of movies. Anything to get JLC back in the saddle. But after these movies have run their course, it'll be a little too hard to picture someone as old as Myers still running around making stabby stabby.

Plus, a reboot might be an opportunity to take the story in a new direction. I can't imagine a stronger version of the Laurie Strode storyline than what we're getting now with the Green timeline. So, why not reboot and try something different? A new main character or something.

[The Joker]

Must've missed that. I understand that the Thorn movies have their fair share of fans. But they're a rarity among the fanbase, I would imagine. Plus, most people just haven't seen them. I'll defend H4 all day long. But let's face it, H5 and H6 are just plain BAD.

Wishful thinking I'm sure. Presumably from fans of the Thorn story line wanting some sort of closure that never really came. That, or they really want Paul Rudd back as Tommy Doyle again. 

Heh, it might be sort of funny if they resurrect (hehe) the H20 timeline. What's Josh Hartnett up to these days, you know?

I can actually envision this happening with the fan films these days. Wasn't there a fan funded project that was a (unofficial) "sequel" to Wes Craven's New Nightmare starring the adult version of Heather Langenkamp's son in that movie? Not sure if it ever got made, but I do remember reading about that a year or so ago.

I have seen the fan films of Friday the 13th that had CJ Graham playing Elias Voorhees, and Thom Matthews. Some of them are actually very decent.

Pretty much. I can buy into the idea of an elder Michael Myers for this current series of movies. Anything to get JLC back in the saddle. But after these movies have run their course, it'll be a little too hard to picture someone as old as Myers still running around making stabby stabby.

Plus, a reboot might be an opportunity to take the story in a new direction. I can't imagine a stronger version of the Laurie Strode storyline than what we're getting now with the Green timeline. So, why not reboot and try something different? A new main character or something.

Couldn't agree more.

[Kamdan]

I'm glad this is now an isolated clip. It sums up everything that's wrong with this sequel. Who thought this was not going to send the movie into hilarity mode with this over the top hammy delivery?

https://getyarn.io/yarn-clip/8d040614-5794-4f12-8b15-0411cb923616

[thecolorsblend]

Rewatching Halloween: Resurrection at the moment*. Even now, I wonder if an opportunity wasn't lost to do Halloween: Resurrection as a found footage film.

I mean, that would've been a big stylistic departure from H20 (and everything else the franchise had always been). But it would've been a modern (for its time) approach to the film and it would've rly allowed Michael to be portrayed as more of a boogeyman.

The found footage technique hadn't yet been run into the ground in 2002. Plus, it would've been a natural fit for HR.

* Yes yes yes, I realize that HR is bad. But if you ask me, it's bad in a good way. Maybe H2018 and HK have changed my perspective a bit. But now I can watch HR and enjoy even the cringey stuff like Busta Rhymes defeating Michael Myers TWICE.

[The Joker]

Rewatching Halloween: Resurrection at the moment*. Even now, I wonder if an opportunity wasn't lost to do Halloween: Resurrection as a found footage film.

I mean, that would've been a big stylistic departure from H20 (and everything else the franchise had always been). But it would've been a modern (for its time) approach to the film and it would've rly allowed Michael to be portrayed as more of a boogeyman.

The found footage technique hadn't yet been run into the ground in 2002. Plus, it would've been a natural fit for HR.

It is kinda of a wonder a found footage Halloween or Friday the 13th never got made during the 2000's. In HR's case, it would have been interesting seeing the film go from the usual formula following Jamie Lee's exit, to found footage from there on out...

* Yes yes yes, I realize that HR is bad. But if you ask me, it's bad in a good way. Maybe H2018 and HK have changed my perspective a bit. But now I can watch HR and enjoy even the cringey stuff like Busta Rhymes defeating Michael Myers TWICE.

It's been quite a long time since I've sat down and watched HR. I got that big and beautiful Scream Factory blu ray box set, but it's just one of those Halloween movies I really don't revisit all that much (like H5). I do remember relating to the High Schooler's romantic situational plight when I saw this in the theater back in the day (being 18 and dating a chick who was 30).

Doing a found footage Friday the 13th movie probably would have been the easiest out of any of the horror slasher franchises back in the 2000's. I don't mind the F13th 2009 remake, but I don't find it as pleasing as Rob Zombie's 2007 Halloween. Both outdo the 2010 A Nightmare on Elm Street remake though (and I was keeping an open mind due to Jackie Earle Haley, but the film itself was just flat out unmemorable).

[thecolorsblend]

It is kinda of a wonder a found footage Halloween or Friday the 13th never got made during the 2000's. In HR's case, it would have been interesting seeing the film go from the usual formula following Jamie Lee's exit, to found footage from there on out...

I've wondered if that wasn't bandied about for HR but was rejected because of logistical challenges. HR had to explain how Myers survived H20. So, right there, you're hard-pressed to work that explanation into a found footage thing.

So, unless HR was going to be another retcon or some sort of reboot, the crew was stuck with a conventional film approach.

It's been quite a long time since I've sat down and watched HR.

Obviously, I can't defend the movie in terms of creative merit. I'm just saying I can contextualize it better now than I could, say, ten years ago.

(being 18 and dating a chick who was 30).

If you ever do a Reddit AMA about this, DM me.

Or hell, DM anyway because I'm blown away by this.

Doing a found footage Friday the 13th movie probably would have been the easiest out of any of the horror slasher franchises back in the 2000's.

I'll cosign that. If it wasn't going to be Halloween then F13 is definitely a good candidate. In fact, I'm surprised a found footage slasher of SOME kind has never truly been done. The closest I can think of Behind The Mask: The Rise Of Leslie Vernon, which is equal parts documentary and traditional film. Definitely worth watching tho.

I don't mind the F13th 2009 remake, but I don't find it as pleasing as Rob Zombie's 2007 Halloween

Whoa, rly? Because I dig the F13 remake as mandatory F13 viewing but can only appreciate H2007 as a strictly optional reinterpretation of H1978. Jason in the remake is mad, bad and dangerous to know. Strange that (at least imo) F13 is by far the most enjoyable of the 2000's slasher remakes.

Both outdo the 2010 A Nightmare on Elm Street remake though

Yeah, I don't think anybody would argue against that. The Nightmare remake is an inferior product for quite a number of reasons, in fact.