The Halloween Franchise

[The Joker]

Something that muddies the water a bit is that Carpenter's balance was usually perfect. Every time Michael was shown in a borderline supernatural light in H78, the moment was immediately followed by something that humanized him. Or vice versa, a very human moment was followed with something arguably supernatural. He always made sure to give conflicting impressions. For example, Laurie tears his mask off and we see a very human face. But then the mfer survives six gunshots and a two story fall.

Carpenter's successors tend not to do that. Rob Zombie would show him in an almost exclusively human light. Or Joe Chappelle would show him in a primarily supernatural light. They never even tried getting the balance right, mostly.

And David Gordon Green has given contradictory stuff too. But not in the same rapid fire way that Carpenter did. I think that's one of the reasons people are on such different pages from each other with these movies. Not criticizing Green. After all, a director's got to do what a director's got to do. I'm just saying, you know? He's not demonstrating the same mastery as Carpenter, that's all. But honestly, you could argue that even Carpenter wouldn't be capable of pulling it off a second time either.

It's been announced that HE will pick up four years after HK. Under the circumstances, that was probably inevitable. But I do wonder how that changes the story that was being told. If it changes at all.

Anyway...

Yeah, I get what you're saying. The original "Halloween" was pretty much the one that really straddled the line on Michael being human or "supernatural" to some degree. I think the follow-up, H2, leaned more into Michael being endowed with supernatural powers, but at the same time, it may have been out of pure necessity at that point. I think the rejected H4 Dennis Etchison script is very interesting to think about, and could in some ways, been the film that really progressed Michael Myers and "Halloween" to the next stage (kinda like how "A Nightmare on Elm Street 3" progressed the concept from the original), but in a lot of ways I think Joe Chappelle was absolutely correct in creating something of a happy marriage between the two concepts. Where Michael was as recognizable from H1 & H2, but having more of a prominent supernatural bent without going completely full tilt with it like the Etchison script would have undoubtedly taken it.

With HK leading into HE, apparently what we saw at the end of HK wasn't the original idea. Which would have had Laurie call Karen, right after Michael murders her, with Michael picking up the phone and breathing into it. Essentially a homage to H1 with the Lynda/Laurie phone call. Laurie realizes what's happened, and tells Michael she's coming for him. Which would have had Laurie determiningly walking down the hospital hallway carrying a knife, something of which I believe are in the tv spots for HK, as the camera freeze frames on the knife Laurie is carrying. Just like the freeze frame of the knife Allyson is holding at the end of H2018.

That being said, I guess there could have been a 4 year time jump regardless of which ending David Gordon Green would have chosen, but the original ending for HK sure came across like the Blumhouse trilogy was originally conceived to take place on the same Halloween night. Personally, I am cautious about wuflu being incorporated into the concluding chapter of the Blumhouse trilogy, along with the 4 year time jump, but hopefully it'll be good. I have to believe, given Michael's legendary boogeyman like stature within Haddonfield 40 years removed, and especially since his return rampage in 2018 where he's still at large, we'll see "Halloween" absolutely banned in Haddonfield in 2022. Perhaps even focusing on numerous residents suffering from PTSD, depression, and suicide. As a result of having to adjust to the "new normal", and constant fear mongering from towns people, and even the local news within Haddonfield.

[thecolorsblend]

Are we allowed to just do fanboy "This part was so cool!" stuff? Because I'm doing it anyway.


The movie has a brief flashback to 1978 when Michael was apprehended. He was surrounded by cops and escape was impossible. If he didn't go quietly, he'd die. End of story.

Near the end, Michael is surrounded and escape was impossible. And this time, he didn't go quietly. Last time he surrendered, he spent forty years locked up. He obviously isn't making that mistake again.

I love the juxtaposition of those two scenes and what they say about Michael. Either scene by itself is cool. But beginning and ending the movie with those scenes tell you something about the lessons Michael has learned all these decades. Very cool stuff, very well done.

[The Joker]

Oh, what the hell? Let's.

I absolutely love how Michael kills Cameron in this. I mean, the guy did a lot in redeeming himself a bit from H2018, but man, Michael just totally wrecks this guy emotionally and physically, before delivering the coup de grâce right in front of his girlfriend, Allyson. It's debatable if Michael would have simply walked passed Cameron if Allyson had made a run for it, considering he mortally wounded the old woman from earlier after killing her husband, and just left her to slowly die, but with Allyson watching and screaming, "Leave him alone!", Michael was like, "Nuh-uh. Not happening. Here, you watching? Watch this!" Brutal.

[thecolorsblend]

Too lazy to check Box Office Mojo. But Wikipedia lists off a gross of over $117 million.

At this point, I think we can safely assume that day-and-date streaming has not hurt HK. I mean, it might've. We can't know what would have happened without same day streaming. But $117 million on a $20 million production budget has to be considered a gigantic success. There's just no other way to look at it.

And while I might drag this thread a bit off topic, it does shine a lot on other same-day streaming releases. Some of them have been box office hits "in spite" of same day streaming while others have been flops. At this point, my only conclusion can be that same-day streaming appeals to a certain type of viewer while the theatrical experience appeals to someone else.

This is very significant. And I wonder if the movie industry is taking the time to truly ponder the ramifications of this thing. If it is true that streaming doesn't measurably harm the box office then (A) a lot of Hollywood big shots have damaged their careers for no reason and (B) an entire new world of marketing opportunities has just opened up.

I would hope that Peacock (and the rest) (but Peacock is the only thing that matters in this thread) is measuring those analytics every possible way they can. But more than ever, I'm convinced that streaming has potential that nobody has fully understood yet.

tl;dr- $117 million, that's good news, can't wait for Halloween Ends.

[thecolorsblend]

Apparently an extended cut of HK is on the way. I don't have any details. But I saw it listed for pre-order an Apple TV.

Yes. I pre-ordered it. No regerts,

[thecolorsblend]

It's not a "scene" in the truest sense of the word. But an interesting deleted moment from H2018 anyway. I dig it because it shows Michael gradually (but probably unintentionally) closing in on the Strodes/Nelsons.

[The Joker]

Hmm ...

I wonder if both the theatrical and extended cut will be on the same blu ray?

Otherwise, looks like I'll be, at the very least, double dipping. Just like with all the different cuts/editions that came along with being a completionist and obtaining every damn version of Rob Zombie's two Halloween movies. 

[thecolorsblend]

I wonder if both the theatrical and extended cut will be on the same blu ray?

Both will apparently be included with the Apple TV version. And both will include director commentary too, if that's worth anything to you.

Otherwise, looks like I'll be, at the very least, double dipping. Just like with all the different cuts/editions that came along with being a completionist and obtaining every damn version of Rob Zombie's two Halloween movies. 

Finding all the Zombie versions hasn't been very easy. Finally found both versions of his first Halloween movie but so far have only found the theatrical version of H2.

My honest opinion is that fans can say whatever they want about his movies. But at the end of the day, he saved Halloween from direct to video hell. For that reason, we owe him a tremendous amount of gratitude.

[The Joker]

Both will apparently be included with the Apple TV version. And both will include director commentary too, if that's worth anything to you.

Not really, but I appreciate the info. I'm still a physical media guy. I think I remember you stating that you have pretty much made the jump to streaming already. I'll begrudgingly bite the bullet on having to stream at some point soon I'm sure, but I want to continue my physical media collection of Halloween movies as long as I can. Own pretty much all the DVD releases, got the big and beautiful Scream Factory box set, and of course the blu of H2018. HK will, of course, be added to the display shelf. Even if I have to buy it twice for different cuts. I'll do it.

Finding all the Zombie versions hasn't been very easy. Finally found both versions of his first Halloween movie but so far have only found the theatrical version of H2.

Concerning Zombie's 2007 Halloween .... do you have the workprint version?

There's pretty much 3 different versions:

Workprint
Theatrical
Director's Cut

With Rob Zombie's Halloween 2, for some reason all I could find was the Director's Cut when it was released on DVD in stores (back in 2009?). I think it was actually a few years later when I ran up on the RZH2 DVD on a horror movie sale display at a wal-mart. With the Scream Factory box set, it only includes the Director's Cut's of Zombie's H1 and H2 for some reason despite a good number of extras. You literally have to resort to buying a standard double feature blu ray release to get the Theatrical Cuts of Zombie's H1 and H2. Pain in the ass, but it is what it is.

My honest opinion is that fans can say whatever they want about his movies. But at the end of the day, he saved Halloween from direct to video hell. For that reason, we owe him a tremendous amount of gratitude.

Couldn't agree more. After Halloween Resurrection, Zombie's reboot of Halloween in 2007 was, as Scorsese would say, "cinema" by comparison. I personally can't help but think of Zombie's Michael Myers whenever I watch the Blumhouse films (if just a little bit), considering it was Zombie who initiated pushing the current aged decrepit mask look, as opposed to the classic clean mask that was the case in H1-H8.

[thecolorsblend]

I think I remember you stating that you have pretty much made the jump to streaming already.

It's a practical decision as much as anything else. I have far more hard drive space available than I do shelf space. We all make compromises in life.

Concerning Zombie's 2007 Halloween .... do you have the workprint version?

I do not. Aside from the fact that it exists, I can't say that I know much about it. I assume there are differences between that and the theatrical and director's cuts?

Couldn't agree more. After Halloween Resurrection, Zombie's reboot of Halloween in 2007 was, as Scorsese would say, "cinema" by comparison. I personally can't help but think of Zombie's Michael Myers whenever I watch the Blumhouse films (if just a little bit), considering it was Zombie who initiated pushing the current aged decrepit mask look, as opposed to the classic clean mask that was the case in H1-H8.

Always thought Resurrection was a shame, personally. Is it great? No. For that matter, it's not even very good. But I don't think it should've been a franchise-killer.

I mean, I don't care what anybody says. Halloween 5 is the worst Halloween movie ever made. Basically every creative decision in that movie is pure garbage. By comparison, Resurrection might not be high art. But it's watchable. I can even enjoy Resurrection on a "This is a bad movie but I kind of like it anyway" sort of way. I cannot derive any such enjoyment from H5. I have my share of disagreements with Zombie's movies but I can let that stuff slide.

With Halloween 5? I can't let anything slide. It's just BAD, period.

But yeah, as you say, I also see a bit of shared DNA with Zombie's handling of Myers and the Blumhouse version.