SyFy: "Keaton's Batman is still the gold standard"

[The Laughing Fish]

I think Keaton and Bale are both pretty definitive, between them basically the most definitive. New actors, and directors, have big boots to fill.

I disagree on Bale, his portrayal was rather terrible. I'd pick any other actor in the Batman role before him. It's too bad, he's otherwise a great actor.

Keaton is definitely an innovator when it comes to playing Batman, so it's about time more people are starting to give him the credit that he deserved.

I'm a bit less fond of Keaton personally since he did Birdman and the idea of bringing to do a Batman Beyond wouldn't make sense since, like it or not, Burton and BB have entirely different perspectives on killing, BB largely based on that he's unwilling to continue because he's unwilling to use lethal weapons.

I get that Birdman had some antipathy towards comic book films, but I'd like to think that Keaton wants to be known for more than be a typecast for certain roles. Plus, his return to comic adaptations with him playing the Vulture in Spider-Man: Homecoming and Morbius shows he isn't completely dismissive to the material.

If Batman Beyond starring Keaton ever happens, I wouldn't expect it to copy the  show's premise just because they share the same title. The third Captain America film was subtitled Civil War but took lots of liberties from the comic source material. So I would expect a potential Batman Beyond film to do the same.

Besides, if you want a faithful film adaptation of Batman Beyond then I'm afraid you're in for some tough luck. Apart from George Clooney and Val Kilmer, all the other Batmen have killed and used guns.

[Kamdan]

But there is definitely a negative side to the Donner legacy. Specifically, people's romanticised obsession with the first two Reeve films, to the point they're blinded by their flaws. For all the kick and fuss about what Pa Kent's death in MOS, for instance, people love to refer to the scene where Glenn Ford's death was inevitable because Clark realises "all my powers, and I couldn't even save him". Sadly, this poignant scene does get undermined by the end of the movie, perhaps even more so in the Donner cut SII, when Superman turns back time to prevent every trouble he faces in the third act.

Sure, if you watch that scene from an emotional perspective, it's brilliant. But from a plot perspective, it's nonsense. It does make you question if Superman can turn back time at some point in history, then why doesn't he go back further and take his father to hospital for treatment before he suffers that heart attack? It would've prolonged his life a bit longer, or better yet, prevent every other tragedy that affected the world? It is a pretty big cop out, and does ruin every tension happening in the story. And of course, there is the desperation some people have trying to argue Zod didn't die in SII because of the deleted arctic scene, even though neither Lester nor Donner included that scene in the final cut, but whatever.

The reason that scene works in the first film is because Superman is driven by sadness over the loss of a loved one, frustration of being too late in saving her and defiance from his father's repeated words of not interfering with human history. This was a brilliant move of their part to make this original ending for Superman II the ending of the first to give more weight to the climax than simply Superman averting disaster. This is exactly why everyone reacted negatively to how they repeated this for the Donner Cut. None of that is apparent other than they needed a way to return to the status quo without dire consequences. I'm sure this wasn't going to be repeated if Donner was allowed to finish the movie properly.

I disagree on Bale, his portrayal was rather terrible. I'd pick any other actor in the Batman role before him. It's too bad, he's otherwise a great actor.

Bale is honestly the only actor current viable actor I can see in the role then and now. He's got the right look and chips to pull it off. Others like Affleck bring a lot of unwanted weight (no pun intended) to the role.

The problems he encountered playing the role lie sorely on Nolan's direction. He admired that he had no clear vision on how he wanted the Batman persona to come across on screen and they went overboard with him growling his overly long dialogue. Burton and Keaton knew that less is more went a long way with their incarnation. There are many scenes that would have played out perfectly had they'd thought to have Bale drop the Batman voice when delivering his long monologues.

Plus, his return to comic adaptations with him playing the Vulture in Spider-Man: Homecoming and Morbius shows he isn't completely dismissive to the material.

Keaton is doing it all for the money, taking a lesson from his co-star Jack Nicholson.

[The Dark Knight]

Bale is honestly the only actor current viable actor I can see in the role then and now. He's got the right look and chips to pull it off. Others like Affleck bring a lot of unwanted weight (no pun intended) to the role.

If we're going by the standard of unwanted weight, say hello to Bale's Terminator set rant and the relationship with his mother and sister. Nobody is perfect, and strictly speaking it's only the performance that should be judged.

[Kamdan]

Nobody is perfect, and strictly speaking it's only the performance that should be judged.

Take it away!

[The Laughing Fish]

Nobody is perfect, and strictly speaking it's only the performance that should be judged.

Take it away!

Still clinging on to old prejudices, I see. Affleck has come a long way since Pearl Harbour, from Hollywoodland to most recently The Way Back.

Besides, Trey Parker and Matt Stone don't get everything right. Don't you remember the rather obscene way they spoofed Christopher Reeve and stem cell research on South Park? Or the despicable way they had George Lucas and Steven Spielberg raping Indiana Jones in the same show, just to express their disgust for the fourth Indy movie? Excuse me if I don't totally trust their own judgement of character, satire be damned.

[Kamdan]

Still clinging on to old prejudices, I see. Affleck has come a long way since Pearl Harbour, from Hollywoodland to most recently The Way Back.

Besides, Trey Parker and Matt Stone don't get everything right. Don't you remember the rather obscene way they spoofed Christopher Reeve and stem cell research on South Park? Or the despicable way they had George Lucas and Steven Spielberg raping Indiana Jones in the same show, just to express their disgust for the fourth Indy movie? Excuse me if I don't totally trust their own judgement of character, satire be damned.

Exactly your problem, damming satire. I'm sorry you're not a fan of political or dark humor. It was clearly a parody of people stating "George Lucas raped our childhood," an allegory that is taken to the extreme.

What I don't get how you can cling  to a bottle when you're somehow married to an incredible woman like Jennifer Gardner. It's a real shame that he's gotta jump on everyone's bandwagon when comes to the opinion of Daredevil. He didn't  care that he was a decent comic book movie of its time and it gave him an opportunity to meet  his future ex-wife.

Affleck is the washed up ex-jock pretending he's the hero he never was. He knows how good he had it and has paid the price.

[The Laughing Fish]

Exactly your problem, damming satire. I'm sorry you're not a fan of political or dark humor.

Not necessarily true, I just don't care for certain instances when it backfires miserably. Hence my following comment.

It was clearly a parody of people stating "George Lucas raped our childhood," an allegory that is taken to the extreme.

Yeah, well, considering I know someone who did get raped when they were younger, you can forgive me if I think such an allegory is abhorrent. But hey, if you think I'm too sensitive to appreciate such "dark humour" because of this tragic knowledge I've got in the back of my mind then that's your problem.

What I don't get how you can cling  to a bottle when you're somehow married to an incredible woman like Jennifer Gardner. It's a real shame that he's gotta jump on everyone's bandwagon when comes to the opinion of Daredevil. He didn't  care that he was a decent comic book movie of its time and it gave him an opportunity to meet  his future ex-wife.

Affleck is the washed up ex-jock pretending he's the hero he never was. He knows how good he had it and has paid the price.

You seem to resent Affleck for not showing any respect for the Daredevil film he worked on. Well, I got news for you, sometimes actors just don't care for the material that they starred in. For instance, Alec Guinness once told a young enthusiastic Star Wars fan to stop watching the film, because he hated it himself. Harrison Ford doesn't seem to care much for the franchise either, even though it made him such a household name. I shouldn't have to point out actors play make-believe for a living.

[Kamdan]

Not necessarily true, I just don't care for certain instances when it backfires miserably. Hence my following comment.

Yeah, well, considering I know someone who did get raped when they were younger, you can forgive me if I think such an allegory is abhorrent. But hey, if you think I'm too sensitive to appreciate such "dark humour" because of this tragic knowledge I've got in the back of my mind then that's your problem.

Definitely a hazard when it comes to approaching this type of material. Some of it will land and some of it won't. They definitely landed on Affleck's case.

You seem to resent Affleck for not showing any respect for the Daredevil film he worked on. Well, I got news for you, sometimes actors just don't care for the material that they starred in. For instance, Alec Guinness once told a young enthusiastic Star Wars fan to stop watching the film, because he hated it himself. Harrison Ford doesn't seem to care much for the franchise either, even though it made him such a household name. I shouldn't have to point out actors play make-believe for a living.

Your examples reacted that way because it's something they're constantly asked about. Guinness was annoyed that his body of work seemed to him was going to ignored for this one role of his. Ford feels the same way and isn't someone who doesn't like his personal space violated. Affleck got his noise with his light over the years and is only now starting to sober up. For Daredevil, he acts as though he was in an episode of the 80's Superboy TV show than a multi-million dollar movie, calling it "embarrassing." That kind of attitude never warrant him to wear the cowl of Batman. Adam West truly did material that at times was embarrassing but he never called it that. He was always grateful for the opportunity.

[thecolorsblend]

What I don't get how you can cling  to a bottle when you're somehow married to an incredible woman like Jennifer Gardner.

Usually, I try to stay out of other people's drama. But dude, not cool. Addiction is a real thing. Nobody asks to be born with it. All the love in the world won't necessarily stop somebody from throwing their lives away on their addiction. It's no reflection on either Affleck or Garner's personal character that Affleck has a serious problem.

The rest of your post is a matter of taste that isn't open to debate. But this comment was out of line, if you ask me. And if it helps to establish my own prejudices, I find Affleck The Public Figure to be obnoxious and kind of unbearable at times.

[Kamdan]

Problem with Affleck is that he never let anyone give him this speech until it was too late.