Max Shreck and Simon Stagg similarities

[The Laughing Fish]

I mentioned this in another thread, but I thought why not create its own topic?

After watching episodes featuring Simon Stagg in the Justice League animated show and Beware the Batman, I reckon Stagg has quite a bit in common with Max Shreck. Both are elitist and very manipulative into getting what they want for their business aspirations i.e. Shreck convincing the Penguin to run for Mayor to make his plans for the nuclear reactor possible, and Stagg sets up Mason to stage the Metamorpho transformation as an accident- both in JL and BTB.

Both characters are esponsible for playing a direct role of a character getting transformed into somebody else - Rex Mason/Metamorpho and Selina Kyle/Catwoman. Although in Selina's case, Shreck tried to kill her because she knew too much. Whereas in both cartoons, Simon didn't approve his daughter Sapphire being in a relationship with Rex, who was employed at the Stagg Industries, so Simon had set Rex up to be exposed to the chemicals that genetically mutated his body. Rex was deprived of Sapphire Stagg because Simon didn't approve their relationship. Particularly in BTB, where Rex was employed as a security guard at Stagg Industries; someone who Simon believed was beneath his daughter's standards.

Despite being cold-blooded, both men do love their children. But I reckon in Shreck is perhaps the lesser of the two evils in this regard, because he convinces Penguin to kidnap him instead of his son Chip. In contrast, Stagg was willing to ruin his daughter's relationship with Rex for the sake of self-interest.

[Catwoman]

Very interesting comparison. I hadn't thought of it, but you're right. Stagg really weirded me out in the Justice League episode. He was creepily interested Sapphire. Like...um....you know, VERY interested. Ug. I saw it after BTB, which was my intro to the character. Ug. What a piece of work.

I've seen some people try to defend Max's character because of him trying to save Chip. I was always like "Meh." So thanks for being the first I can recall to point out where that action actually did bump him up on the morality scale from someone else. lol.

[The Laughing Fish]

I was going to say Simon in his own twisted mind probably believed he knew what's best for Sapphire, but judging from this passage below, he could possibly have the traits of a narcissistic father.

Most parents want their children to succeed. Some narcissistic parents, however, set expectations not for the benefit of the child, but for the fulfillment of their own selfish needs and dreams. Instead of raising a child whose own thoughts, emotions, and goals are nurtured and valued, the offspring becomes a mere extension of the parent's personal wishes, with the child's individuality diminished.

https://www.psychologytoday.com/us/blog/the-intelligent-divorce/201303/the-narcissistic-father

As bad as Shreck was, you can't deny his loyalty to Chip. After all, Chip was willing to put himself in danger against the Red Triangle Gang to protect his dad and told him to go and save himself. Max showing his gratitude by surrendering himself to the Penguin was a rare moment of humanity, for a man who was otherwise a cold-blooded bastard.

[thecolorsblend]

Most parents want their children to succeed. Some narcissistic parents, however, set expectations not for the benefit of the child, but for the fulfillment of their own selfish needs and dreams. Instead of raising a child whose own thoughts, emotions, and goals are nurtured and valued, the offspring becomes a mere extension of the parent's personal wishes, with the child's individuality diminished.

I find individuality to be a highly overrated trait. For one thing, the NPC thing has considerable basis in fact for a reason.

For two things, there are only so many ways to swim against the current, not all of which are of a moral good. For example, I'm sure Ted Bundy prized his individuality as well and look how that turned out.

I realize I risk burying the point of this thread but honestly the older I get, the more I think that children should sit down, STFU and listen to their betters.

[The Laughing Fish]

I find individuality to be a highly overrated trait. For one thing, the NPC thing has considerable basis in fact for a reason.

I'm not sure what you're getting at here, and what that has to do with narcissistic, controlling parents. Plus, I thought the idea behind the NPC meme is to rebel against groupthink.

For two things, there are only so many ways to swim against the current, not all of which are of a moral good. For example, I'm sure Ted Bundy prized his individuality as well and look how that turned out.

I think that's an extreme example. That, and from what I understand, Bundy's family environment might have had a negative influence in his psychosis, i.e. growing up being lied to about his sister was actually his mother and his parents were really his grandparents, to hide the family shame of being born out of wedlock, and rumours that he might've been exposed to his grandfather's abusive and violent temper.

I realize I risk burying the point of this thread but honestly the older I get, the more I think that children should sit down, STFU and listen to their betters.

If only it were that simple. There are definitely parents out there who know better, but unfortunately, there are some people who are just as clueless as their children...or worse, use them for their own selfish needs.

[The Laughing Fish]

I noticed somebody saw this thread and shared it on MovieChat, the forum that replaced the cesspool that was the IMDB message boards.

https://moviechat.org/tt0103776/Batman-Returns/5caae9c33483e657b4cadc9a/Comparisons-between-Max-Shreck-and-Simon-Stagg?reply=

A fan made this comment:

I wish they'd made a Metamorpho film featuring some of the same actors who appear in Batman Returns and the other Batman films.

Christopher Walken could play Simon Stagg. Cristi Conaway could play his daughter Sapphire Stagg (Michelle Pfeiffer is too old to play Walken's daughter, and besides Sapphire was a bit of a bimbo, like the Ice Princess, in the earlier comics). Andrew Bryniarski could play potential Sapphire suitor and Rex Mason rival, Wally Bannister. And I guess Val Kilmer or Chris O'Donnell could play Rex Mason/Metamorpho. And maybe Jeep Swanson, the guy who played Bane, could play Simon Stagg's manservant, Java.

Fascinating fan casting, but I don't think Cristi Conaway would've been a big enough name to play the love interest.

Here is another comment by somebody who wasn't so fond of Shreck:

Shreck should've been axed from the movie. Too many characters already and he wasn't even in the comics. Would've made more sense if he had been Harvey Dent.

I disagree. Like it or not, Shreck was pivotal for Selina's character development. Penguin too, but Selina more so. Without him, you would have to rewrite the other villains completely. Besides, it's not like BR was the only Batman film to use new characters that didn't exist in the comics and have an effect on established characters.

I would like to know how this poster would've fit Harvey Dent into a story that featured a freakish Penguin and a crazed, rebellious Catwoman. If he thought the movie was crowded with enough characters as it is, I'm not sure how Dent's inclusion would've made it any better. The way he wrote his comment, one could be forgiven for thinking he meant Dent should've been the one who ruined Selina's life.