Joker (2019)

[The Dark Knight]

I don't think I want this to become a franchise. I think I prefer it if this is a onetime, standalone sort of thing. Not everything needs to get milked dry. Still, the enthusiasm for a hypothetical sequel tells me a lot about how much people care. I see that as a positive thing.

Agreed. I think the rise and fall arc means it's a solo film and a solo film only. That style of arc is precisely how an actor like Phoenix sinks his teeth into a role and shows his range. These type of performances are what people remember, much like Michelle's Selina starting out as a shy secretary, becoming an apartment trasher and finally a skin tight vinyl dominatrix. I don't know how a Joker sequel could justify itself without becoming another mainstream hero/villain piece. The focus of this film is his psychology. And the events of this film are the main event. A sequel would represent a plateau.

[The Laughing Fish]

So let me guess this straight: the same loudmouth critics who have condemned the darkness of movies like MOS and BvS, and their vitriol inspired Warner Butchers to completely reshoot SS and JL, are heaping praise on this sh*t for being "dark, brooding and disturbing"? Some of which going so far to say the Joker-in-name-only character is "sympathetic", despite how psychotic he becomes? GET f***ED. Once again, these hypocritical critics are seriously sick in the head.

This movie looks like pretentious, unoriginal garbage. What, is Hollywood REALLY that bankrupt for creativity? If they're not regurgitating the same formula, like most MCU movies nowadays, they're mimicking better movies from the past with a gimmick.

There's no point for me bitching about this any further, because I won't ever watch this piece of sh*t. But I'm sure the masses will eat it up.

[thecolorsblend]

There's no point for me bitching about this any further

You're right about that.

[The Dark Knight]

'The Joker without Batman doesn't make sense'.

I don't completely agree with the premise of that statement in the context of JOKER. The Killing Joke shows the character was beaten down psychologically well before he fell into the vat of chemicals. As it stands in the current day of the film, Phoenix's source of angst in this film seems to be Bruce's father and what he stands for.

In the long term, I think it's more likely Phoenix inspires young Bruce to eventually become Batman, inverting the relationship between the two characters. The same boxes will be ticked but in different ways.

Oh and colors, one small thing: when you bring me out, can you introduce me as Dark Knight?

[The Joker]

And the "critic" poster.



All indications are that this will be something more than simply yet another example of aping off of the MCU formula which we've have had in droves for years now.

In either case, I will likely see this opening weekend (if not opening Thurs/Fri). Though I continue to keep my expectations in check, especially so in how the joker, as a character, is handled as a protagonist, rather than a antagonist in a film. Hell, I'll be pleased if this might conceivably stand beside Fox's 2017 LOGAN. Another great film that was more grounded, and more focused on characterization/it's own self contained story, rather than CGI and "shared universe" gimmicks.

[Wayne49]

Its difficult for me to draw any fair conclusions on this until I actually see the film. That being said, I certainly have opinions on the suggestions regarding this being a stand alone project. If this is to be nothing more than a origin story wrapped in social commentary, what is the intention for the audience? Deconstructing villains is not a new approach in the age of cinema. And it goes without saying this exploration often devalues the villain when we're handed an explanation far less interesting than what we could personally imagine. God knows we've had some classic villains destroyed with shallow depictions of "good people, filled with good intentions, steered in bad directions by others with less noble pursuits." It's a bit of a tired formula. So when I see a film that promises to take me "inside the mind of the Joker", history has taught me not to invest too much on that promise.

Hopefully this is the launch of something interesting to bring in the new Batman and not another shallow rambling from Hollywood about the shortcomings of society, (which they exploit to generate revenue). There's nothing more disingenuous than someone virtue signalling while picking your pocket.

[The Dark Knight]

JOKER has elements of the comics, but its true grounding lies in Taxi Driver and those types of films. And guess what? Those were one and done outings as well. By that same logic, why should the audience invest themselves in a story that doesn't progress into sequels? Villain deconstruction is not a new concept and it doesn't have to be. In 2019, how many new concepts can there be? All we ask for is a good film with good performances, and by all accounts Phoenix just doesn't bring home the bacon, but a truck full of tacos. There is a way to give Phoenix's incarnation heavy screen time as well retain a sense of mysteriousness. And based on the plot details I've read, that's been achieved. Looking forward to seeing that play out.

[thecolorsblend]

JOKER has elements of the comics, but its true grounding lies in Taxi Driver and those types of films. And guess what? Those were one and done outings as well. By that same logic, why should the audience invest themselves in a story that doesn't progress into sequels? Villain deconstruction is not a new concept and it doesn't have to be. In 2019, how many new concepts can there be? All we ask for is a good film with good performances, and by all accounts Phoenix just doesn't bring home the bacon, but a truck full of tacos. There is a way to give Phoenix's incarnation heavy screen time as well retain a sense of mysteriousness. And based on the plot details I've read, that's been achieved. Looking forward to seeing that play out.

I can understand where JOKER might not be everybody's brand of vodka. But the film truly does look like a labor of love for everybody involved. This is most certainly not a drive-thru McMovie. Phillips and his cast and crew seem to be going out of their way to be different. A low budget, done-in-one solo Joker film is not the path of least resistance in today's market.

I think that is precisely what attracts fans like you and me to this film, if I'm being honest. For us, JOKER's originality is not a bug; it's a feature. I see JOKER as good counter-programming to the marvelous competition's output done in a way which has always separated DC from Marvel. When push comes to shove, DC Comics has always been willing to take greater creative risks than Marvel Comics.

I'm glad that those same types of risks are being taken by WB now.

[The Dark Knight]

The negative one and done commentary ignores the fact Nicholson and Ledger are precisely that. Phoenix will also have one appearance, but guess what? He'll end up having more screen time than both put together. So it really is a moot point.

I gotta be completely honest with folks here and say killers like Ted Bundy fascinate me. The way they see the world, the way they present themselves with superficial charm and how they generally get what they want by being not just calculating, but bold. We don't have to like what they do, but people like Joker and Bundy are high performance animals. They disgust and intrigue in equal measure. JOKER is bringing that same type of morbidly curious energy, so much so that I've seen genuine fears the movie is almost too effectively real and could become a radicalization tool for people who see themselves as being in Arthur's position. That's high praise. It's a commentary on the true power of cinema which is rarely captured. It's why Tarantino enjoys using violence in his films. It elicits an emotional response and allows a director to control an audience.

[Wayne49]

The negative one and done commentary ignores the fact Nicholson and Ledger are precisely that. Phoenix will also have one appearance, but guess what? He'll end up having more screen time than both put together. So it really is a moot point

There is nothing "ignored" because the Nicholas and Ledger Jokers were staged against Batman AS INTENDED. This movie wants to step outside that box and give the audience a one note origin story. My response to that is why do it at all if the suggestion is not to go any further?  Would you have preferred Nolan stop at Batman Begins? Do you build the world's fastest car and decide not to equip it with wheels? If the argument is, "This is for the art of it", then what is the statement? And please don't tell me it's to romanticize Tedd Bundy.

I laughed out loud recently when I read how people were outraged at the idealized ending for Tarantino's current film, " Once upon a time in Hollywood". Somewhere along the way people forgot to read the title or understand this was NOT a biography on the Manson family. IT IS FICTION. I'm finding myself reacting the same way to those who want to embrace this project because a critic called it a "masterpiece". And then we have the reaction in Venice to this film as well. Is Venice now the beacon of truth in art or can we just apply a tad bit of transparency and understand all of this is well crafted MARKETING to influence opening weekend that is just under a month away? Funny how that works...

The Joker is a comic book character in a comic book world. All of the sprinkles of social allegory (that most movies carry anyway) will never get me to consider this interpretation as a serious study of mental illness or class warfare as conceptualized by Joaquin Phoenix.  I see with better eyes than that and understand what is commercial and what is window dressing to make a buck. If you had one of these disorders would you enjoy seeing it portrayed by a fictional homicidal villain? Might set you back a bit. But the responsibility of that is for another discussion. All of that being said, my reaction is to the conjecture of this film. I'm hoping to like this movie, but I don't have to guess at my disappointment if they do not marry it to a Batman film to give it completion. There is no case study to be had on a fictional antagonist, nor is there a payoff if the fictional protagonist is never intended to share center stage with him.