Joker (2019)

[The Joker]

Actually, the "for two" part sort of plays into my fear that this might become The Harley Show, because modern clown world. Gotta have those female characters running around. Whether anybody wants them or not.

What I'm hoping is that the "à Deux" part is a self-referential acknowledgement that this is a sequel and the spotlight remains firmly fixed on Fleck.

"Folie à Deux" could be referring to Harley?

Could be referring to an imposter Joker (Loosely inspired by The Three Jokers, perhaps)?

Could be a subtle reference towards being inspired by the approach of French New Wave cinema (which leaned into experimentation rather than the typical conventional style of filmmaking) as I theorized?

Or, it could be a simple confirmation of a sequel?

All are possibilities as far as we know. IF it is Harley, I would assume that Phillips would want to get her back to something more resembling the original conception of the character as Paul Dini and Bruce Timm created, rather than the more 'modern iteration' that's been pushed by DC to mixed results. Right now, I am a less worried about Joaquin Phoenix playing second fiddle in this. I can only imagine the conversations Phoneix and Phillips, might've, and probably had, concerning where Arthur's story would go next. I'd like to think the "Folie à Deux" script Phillips worked on, would emphasize those ideas greatly.

[Silver Nemesis]

What I am wondering right now, is that with "Folie à Deux" (meaning "Madness for Two") is in french, might this sequel take cinematic inspiration from the French New Wave and François Truffaut? Just as the JOKER took inspiration from the New Hollywood era, and Scorsese.

Might be looking way too deep into the title, but it is a thought ....

That could prove an interesting approach. Batman '89 took some influence from French New Wave cinema; specifically Les yeux sans visage (1960). I can imagine the French preoccupation with existentialism gelling with the themes of Arthur's story.

Actually, the "for two" part sort of plays into my fear that this might become The Harley Show, because modern clown world. Gotta have those female characters running around. Whether anybody wants them or not.

I share your fatigue with Harley. If the story is going to focus on Joker's relationship with another character, I'd rather they take a more Pre-Crisis approach and make it about Arthur's friendship with Gary. Have Gary become Gaggy and then have the two of them form a partnership like Dr. Evil and Mini-Me.

I feel this particular version of the Joker would be more prone to form an empathetic attachment to someone vulnerable, like Gary, rather than to a physically attractive psychiatrist. I don't mind Harleen Quinzel appearing as a doctor, and perhaps getting killed by the Joker, but I don't fancy the idea of her becoming his partner and sharing the limelight.

[The Dark Knight]

I hope Gary gets to play a role in the sequel. He is someone Arthur genuinely cares about, and I'm intrigued to know how Gary feels about Arthur's descent into madness. Is he disgusted with his actions but goes along with them out of obligation/fear, or does he become a true believer? The first option seems more interesting to me. If they captured the original spirit of Harleen, someone who is used and abused, it could serve as a mirror to Arthur's bond with Gary. If she features, I'd have Arthur use her to break out of jail and nothing more. Just before he leaves, Harleen is badly assaulted or outright killed - as the therapist from the first film seems to be given the red footprints going down the hallway. A transactional and cold relationship.

[The Joker]

Hollywood Reporter is saying Joker: Folie à deux is a musical.

With possibly Lady Gaga as Harley Quinn.

https://www.hollywoodreporter.com/movies/movie-news/joker-2-lady-gaga-joaquin-phoenix-todd-phillips-in-musical-1235154135/

[The Dark Knight]

I'm not surprised to see Harley included. It seemed like the logical extension of this world, particularly as Arthur has two prominent female influences in the original - his mother and Sophie. I'm not the biggest Gaga fan but I can see her in the role. She also fits the direction of a musical, which isn't much more of a stretch considering the prominent use of That's Life and Smile in the first movie. Phoenix likes dancing, and did so in front of a bathroom mirror and down stairs. If anything, this news doubles down on the fact this will be something against the mainstream grain. I remain unintimidated about a sequel.

[Travesty]

I absolutely hate musicals, sooooo yeah.


Bummer.....

[thecolorsblend]

I'm not surprised to see Harley included. It seemed like the logical extension of this world, particularly as Arthur has two prominent female influences in the original - his mother and Sophie. I'm not the biggest Gaga fan but I can see her in the role. She also fits the direction of a musical, which isn't much more of a stretch considering the prominent use of That's Life and Smile in the first movie. Phoenix likes dancing, and did so in front of a bathroom mirror and down stairs. If anything, this news doubles down on the fact this will be something against the mainstream grain. I remain unintimidated about a sequel.

I'm... less optimistic. I'll reserve judgment, of course. Phillips has earned that much from me. But I don't see this as a good sign. At all.

[The Dark Knight]

I'm strangely not really bothered as Phillips won me over before - there could be genius in going a different route. There is an interplay between reality and fantasy with a musical, which in theory can fit the world of JOKER. There was uncertainty in a number of scenes from the original, namely if things actually played out exactly as the viewer witnessed them. Phillips could go for hallucinations or moments of heightened mania, perhaps as Arthur or Harley fall for one another. With the frequency of those sequences reducing and darkening as things sour. Which makes me interested in checking out Burton's Sweeney Todd.

[thecolorsblend]

I'm strangely not really bothered as Phillips won me over before - there could be genius in going a different route. There is an interplay between reality and fantasy with a musical, which in theory can fit the world of JOKER. There was uncertainty in a number of scenes from the original, namely if things actually played out exactly as the viewer witnessed them. Phillips could go for hallucinations or moments of heightened mania, perhaps as Arthur or Harley fall for one another. With the frequency of those sequences reducing and darkening as things sour. Which makes me interested in checking out Burton's Sweeney Todd.

The musical aspect bothers me least, frankly. I see it as a natural extension of the dancing from the original.

It's the Harley thing that has me concerned.

Then again, there are ways of making this work. If Dr. Harleen Quinzel treats Arthur Fleck in therapy in "the real world" while, in Fleck's imagination, he's the Joker again and Harley Quinn is his moll... yeah, that could work. Or basically, if Harley is something that only exists in the Joker's mind, I'm fine with that.

My concern is and has been Harley stealing the show. Call it sexist, call it whatever you want. But I've had enough of female replacements taking over from original male characters. And I don't want to see the sequel go in that direction.

[The Dark Knight]

My concern is and has been Harley stealing the show. Call it sexist, call it whatever you want. But I've had enough of female replacements taking over from original male characters. And I don't want to see the sequel go in that direction.

I understand that. Joker is still the name on the film's branding, so the focus should circle back to him. I'm hoping that is the case. It really should be, but we'll see. When a trailer gets released we'll have a fair idea how they're going to pull this off. I'm imagining this movie taking place a lot inside Arkham, so distortion of reality would easily work. Sophie wasn't even physically with Arthur most of the time, so there's that angle to consider. Gaga is also trying to be 'A Serious Actor', so that also gives me hope tonally.