Joker (2019)

[Azrael]

Seen it, loved it. I agree with the sentiment that it's one of the very best. IMO, best live action DC movie in 10 years (since 2009's Watchmen).

The movie has a lot to digest, special mention should go to the doom-laden score by Hildur Guðnadóttir. Her work for this and Chernobyl are two of the best scores of 2019.

[thecolorsblend]

Saw the movie while I was incommunicado. Largely, it was everything I hoped for. Some minor quibbles here and there but nothing to worry about. I was on the same wavelength with Phillips literally from the first frame until the last frame, for the most part.

Of course, Walnut-Sized Bladder Syndrome struck. So I made a run for the men's room during Fleck's comedy club set because I figured I could kind of guess how that scene would play out. And it seems that I was right. While I was in there, some other guy watching the movie on a break broke The Guy Code and struck up a conversation with me.

"Man, I sure hope something happens soon. Because this thing is really dragging itself out." This was after that business on the subway with the three Wayne Enterprises execs shown in the trailers. So I officially have no idea wtf that guy was even talking about, the weirdo. But it does indicate that the slowburn thing that Phillips was experimenting with isn't for everybody. In the end, that's really none of my business. All I can say on that is I ate the pacing of the film up with a spoon.

If you're a fan of Taxi Driver and The King Of Comedy, odds are you understand the connections (and intentional disconnections) JOKER has with those films. For the first time in a long time, I have a comic book movie that I can genuinely respect.

Hildur Guðnadóttir may very well become an unindicted co-conspirator in this thing. And that would be a real shame. Because even though I have no idea how to pronounce her name, her contribution cannot be overemphasized. This would be a different movie (and I'd say a lesser movie) without her score.

Cinematic perfection? Maybe not. But people didn't talk about Infinity War, per sé; they talked about what Infinity War would lead to in Captain Marvel; and what Captain Marvel would lead to in Endgame; and what Endgame would lead to in Far From Home.

But right now, people are talking about JOKER, the film, the characters, the acting, what the film means, how it should be interpreted, the dichotomy (real or perceived) between authorial intent vs. audience reaction, race issues, sex-relations, class-oriented strife, mental health awareness, etc etc etc.

I'll take one JOKER over a million Endgames any day of the week, thx.

[The Dark Knight]

Colors, colors, colors...

People leaving to use the facilities while a movie is playing has always perplexed me. I know my vowels and I manage my bowels. I can't imagine missing out on footage of something I've been busting to see for months or years. But anyway, good to know you enjoyed the parts you saw. And absolutely, one JOKER beats out the avalanche of generic throwaways that don't challenge the audience in any meaningful way.

I will say I'm still not sure where to rank Phoenix because he really is his own thing. Fantastic performance though. I wrote this review/analysis shortly after the film came out and I still stand by what I put down. One of DC's better films, and while I'm still more Batman focused in terms of my fandom, the Joker is equally great.

https://www.batman-online.com/features/2019/10/5/joker-2019-spoiler-review

[The Joker]

https://www.batman-online.com/features/2019/10/5/joker-2019-spoiler-review

Good summary/review.

Here's my belated thoughts on the film. Was intending to put it out sooner, but you know how it is.




REVIEW CONTAINS SPOILERS


You know, being someone who purposely chose not to get overly hyped and boot lick this movie prior to it's release, in large part to story concerns and initial casting choices, I have to say I walked out absolutely enjoying the hell out of this film! Sure, People are overrating it from both ends, but overall, yeah, it's a good movie. And one that's truly a breath of fresh air in an era that has molded audiences to typically expect a "comic book film" to be riddled with CGI. I left this movie just feeling way more chilled out and relaxed than when I went in,  because Id watched some good acting and direction for once.

The performances, the cinematography, the score, the song choices .... All were top form. Especially Phoenix himself. That guy put on a brilliant, captivating performance, and as a consequence, all other characters are just scenery around him. Phoenix deserves an Oscar. Period.

I decided over a year ago, to not go into this as a Joker TM movie, but rather a Joker Elseworlds movie, and I'm glad I did. I had no expectations going into this film, and I was rather mixed on how they were going about this movie, but I always kind of trusted that whether I liked the film or not, that it would at least be a solid film due to the people and passion behind it, and I honestly think they nailed it in terms of what they were going for. Leading up to the film's release, it was pretty much understood that this is a different type of "comic book" movie. Yet, in this film, there are elements lifted directly from some of the most famous Joker moments in comic books. It takes liberties, sure (don't they all?), but it is also reverent to the source material at times. That's what a great adaption does. I can't get on with the notion that this is a "Joker movie in name only". As this film was made by a group of artists who used the Batman comics as inspiration to tell THEIR own story. And that is why it succeeds. This doesn't need to connect to any prior continuity, nor does it really require a sequel. The film tells it's story, and that's it. Done. Leave it be.

As they say in show business; the best thing any performer can do is leave the audience wanting more.

From the beginning we understand that this incarnation of the Joker, Arthur Fleck, is mentally ill. He isn't an inspirational hero or anti-hero. He is a man in need of understanding but the tragedy is that there is no possible world in which he would get the understanding that he needs. In alot of ways, I found this to be an excellent critique of the mental health care provided by faulty government. Now, Arthur's medical condition, which can either be PBA (Psuedobulbar Affect), or PLC (Pathological Laughter and Crying) contributes to his depression and unfortunate inability to be happy, or live any sort of "normal" life. The tic can be terribly tiring and extremely depressing. Imagine being unable to stop laughing inappropriately, unable to stop even when laughing increasingly becomes physically painful. (btw, in both conditions, the cause is damage to the brain). I found that the film did a good job in actually portraying how crippling mental illness is in reality. I have to say that this film probably one of the more profound portrayals of mental illness I've seen in a mainstream movie in a long time.

Getting back to the film, this tic is only but one of the things that make this particular incarnation of the Joker stand out. As per usual in the comics, we are under the assumption that it's just the Joker laughing maniacally, but now you see him suffering with it. He spends the whole movie trying hard to explain his condition but everyone thinks he's mocking them.  All of Arthur's life, he's constantly sought social acceptance by trying to adhear to comedy in other' people's eyes. It's not until he realized that humor is subjective, and that began the road to self-acceptance. As a consequence, it doesn't matter if others don't find him funny. In the end, it only matters is that Arthur finds it funny. The end exemplifies this notion as he tells the psychiatrist she wouldn't get the joke. Because no one ever did.

What makes the movie so compelling is that while it's not difficult to sympathize with Arthur for his unfortunate luck, his mental problems only make us instinctively cautious of him. Clearly, he's not well, and the movie does not sugarcoat that fact. As we also are privy to the fact that Arthur suffers from some pretty heavy delusions brought on from his psychosis. Delusions that not only make the viewer question what is reality, and what is not, but also gives credence to another fact that Arthur is an unreliable narrator. Similar to other character's like Travis Bickle, Rupert Pupkin, Patrick Bateman, ect. This also extends out to his mother, Penny, who is conveyed as suffering from "percieved" delusions as well.

The unreliable Narrator element in the film, is practically stated really early on, and by the end,  it could be theorized that all the best and worst things that happen to him in the movie could be pared away as part of this delusion, and so all we're left with is his actions. While he is responding to a system that failed him, he is obviously writing his own story according to what he, Arthur Fleck, ideally wants his story to be.

I think one of the best quotes from the film is the line of; "The worst part of having a mental illness is people expect you to act as if you don't." This line really highlights just how much pain Arthur is in. Which is further emphasized when he essentially loses his very identity when he sees his mother's file at Arkham. When that curtain opens and he steps out as Joker, that's it, he is done being a doormat and trying to control himself for a world that doesn't even acknowledge his existence. He follows his urges and mayhem ensues. The desperate way he tries to stop his laughing is bleak, and you know instantly that when he eventually decides to surrender to his laughter, rather than withstand it, the Joker will truly be born. The scene near the end where young Bruce Wayne stood there looking at the body of his dead parents while the Joker was being celebrated by the citizens of Gotham on the same night sent chills to my spine. Symbolically, in this tale, the Joker and Batman were born on the same night.

As far as any negatives go, the film comes across overly derivative of Taxi Driver and The King of Comedy., but I kinda knew that going in. So no surprise there. It's an homage to Taxi Driver and King Of Comedy kinda like how The Devils Rejects is to Texas Chainsaw Massacre 2 (as in, change a few names and it's no longer an "homage" but almost a complete remake), but at least they took everything they "borrowed" and made it into a compelling film of its own. Also, I wasn't a big fan of Thomas Wayne's portrayal in this, as he's very much incorporated as a stand-in for this film, but ultimately found this representation of Thomas Wayne more tolerable than I probably otherwise would have due to viewing this as a one off elseworlds Joker tale.


Overall a positive experience. It should be clear that it's going full genre film, the 70's era Warner Brothers logo is even used in the opening. The film is very much an urban-decay drama, as locations are dilapidated, covered in graffiti, grime and bad wiring. The Black Comedy is VERY black, like when the dwarf guy couldn't escape because the door lock was too high for him: That's black comedy gold! And Arthur simply getting up, kissing him on the forehead, and letting him go, yes, that's quintessential Joker right there. Also, Joker dancing on the Murray show like he owns the place and kissing the old woman. Hilarious! Course, lighter moments like Arthur walking right into a glass door after telling off police detectives work as well. My favorite aspect of this Joker, wasn't his laugh or his facial expressions; it was his ungainly stork run, arms and legs akimbo as he legs it down a street or an alleyway.

That run of his practically deserves to be chased by a terrifying caped shadow.

I liked it. The movie isn't a 10/10 for me, but my rating may go up depending on how subsequent viewings hold up. It's a very slow-burn psychological thriller, but again, that's refreshing to me. The film feels very alive and potent. Part of me wishes that DC would pivot hard in this direction and just make more challenging movies that Disney's MCU would never even consider making.

8/10 and yes, would recommend.

[The Dark Knight]

Trust The Joker himself to write the most comprehensive analysis of the film. Bravo.

My funny fiends, here's how I see things. Romero is the most fun in terms of giving a pure clown experience. He's all about the joke and prankish plots. So much enjoyment is to be had with this version, and I think he's the most classical. But in terms of a performance and a transformation, Phoenix is my man. I'm willing to go as far as labelling him my favorite live action DC villain. It feels odd calling him a villain actually, but I will for the purpose of this discussion.

Having the laugh being a medical condition gave the character a different slant, and it's something that satisfied the comic trope while adding an extra layer of pity. The fact he was smoking all the time, ala TDK Returns Joker, also gave an added sense of rumination. I like that we finally saw the character so thin, too. That's how he's meant to be, or at least how I like him to be, ala the Arkham games. I also dug how Phoenix gave Arthur a restless energy such as moving his legs while seated. He's nervous and excited all at once.

Funky fools here know I dig musical montages. That's Life during his green hair dye flinging was demented bliss. Smile during his date hit the spot. Rock and Roll Part 2 worked a charm for me. I've been listening to it non stop since the movie. He's going down the stairs with carefree swagger instead of trudging up. Even though he will embody evil, it's liberating to see him confident and free. He's no longer prey but the hunter.

At least two deleted scenes exist, and I'm hoping we see them on the Blu-ray. Arthur getting thrown down the steps after meeting Thomas, and attending the funeral of Penny.Particularly hoping we see the latter, as Phoenix has a smug smile and he's in a nice Jokery suit and tie. All in all, it's a movie that only gets better the more you think about it.

[thecolorsblend]

Trust The Joker himself to write the most comprehensive analysis of the film. Bravo.

My funny fiends, here's how I see things. Romero is the most fun in terms of giving a pure clown experience. He's all about the joke and prankish plots. So much enjoyment is to be had with this version, and I think he's the most classical. But in terms of a performance and a transformation, Phoenix is my man. I'm willing to go as far as labelling him my favorite live action DC villain. It feels odd calling him a villain actually, but I will for the purpose of this discussion.

Having the laugh being a medical condition gave the character a different slant, and it's something that satisfied the comic trope while adding an extra layer of pity. The fact he was smoking all the time, ala TDK Returns Joker, also gave an added sense of rumination. I like that we finally saw the character so thin, too. That's how he's meant to be, or at least how I like him to be, ala the Arkham games. I also dug how Phoenix gave Arthur a restless energy such as moving his legs while seated. He's nervous and excited all at once.

Funky fools here know I dig musical montages. That's Life during his green hair dye flinging was demented bliss. Smile during his date hit the spot. Rock and Roll Part 2 worked a charm for me. I've been listening to it non stop since the movie. He's going down the stairs with carefree swagger instead of trudging up. Even though he will embody evil, it's liberating to see him confident and free. He's no longer prey but the hunter.

At least two deleted scenes exist, and I'm hoping we see them on the Blu-ray. Arthur getting thrown down the steps after meeting Thomas, and attending the funeral of Penny.Particularly hoping we see the latter, as Phoenix has a smug smile and he's in a nice Jokery suit and tie. All in all, it's a movie that only gets better the more you think about it.

The Rock & Roll Part 2 thing threw me, I'll admit. The trailer used some other music for that sequence and I had half-expected that the movie would either use that same music or else it would be something pretty similar. I wasn't prepared for that song.

I guess I can see the connection. But for Americans, or at least for me personally, that song is forever associated with cheesy pro-sports interludes that it's a bit challenging to recontextualize it for JOKER.

Still, it's worth it anyway because of how some critics have lost their minds over the usage of that song in the movie. The same hacks who covered up for Harvey Weinstein for years have suddenly found religion when it comes to sex offenders.

And I suppose that the celebratory usage the song always has in sports settings could apply to Joker's sense of triumph as he prances down the stairs. So hmm.

The only real quibble I have with the film, frankly, is goings on with the Waynes just before credits roll. It felt tacked on, like Phillips got a note from some WB nitwit demanding that this iteration of the Joker somehow be more clearly separated from Batman's eventual nemesis. For me, that's not really part of the movie. It doesn't belong and it isn't appropriate.

The movie has been out for a while now. So are we allowed to going into spoiler territory?

[The Dark Knight]

I beg to differ. The final scene with the Waynes is integral as it shows Arthur's final words to Murray have resonated. Arthur has become their leader, which is exemplified by his stand atop the police car. He is their messenger, no longer being ignored. As for Rock and Roll Vol 2, all that glitters isn't gold. The guy is a disgusting creep but the fact it's an instrumental he won't receive royalties off (rights were sold in the 1990s) makes it palatable to me. The song fits the celebratory, sports dance off mood. It's the only real time we see Arthur without a care in the world, so I think it fits.

[johnnygobbs]

It's been confirmed that Gary Glitter won't receive royalties for his song, so once again the outrage directed at this film over its inclusion seems like contrived pearl-clutching.

I agree with TDK on this one.  The song fits Arthur's mood at this particular moment, and it would be a shame if Warner Bros is compelled to change the song for home entertainment release.  If that's the case, perhaps the same thing should be done to other films, like The Full Monty, which also use Gary Glitter's music.

And just to be 100% clear, I utterly loathe the man, and echo TDK's words about him being a 'disgusting creep'.  I don't even particularly like his music (and that was before I even knew what a monster he was), but 'Rock and Roll Vol 2' does fit this moment well and I don't see how its inclusion can do any harm (seeing as Glitter isn't going to profit from it).

As a final point, having finally seen Joker, I do have some misgivings about the film on a purely artistic level, however, I must stress that a lot of the media/social media outrage directed at this film is extremely misconceived.  I'm not going to get into politics here, for fear of offending anyone, but this is clearly not a right-wing film (on the contrary).  Apart from an arguably cheap gag at a dwarf's expense, there is nothing here that should conceivably offend so-called SJWs, and my only real issues with the film is its unbearably and consistently grim tone (there's next to no levity here, which is particularly egregious for a film called Joker) and the sense that a lot of the film's themes were better dealt with in The King of Comedy and Taxi Driver.  Still, a good, and important film, and the ending is particularly chilling and powerful (everything from Arthur's appearance on Murray Franklin's show onwards).  Plus, I rather like how it handled the Wayne Family, including their murder; who ever thought that a filmmaker could still find a way to make Bruce Wayne's origin story interesting?

[thecolorsblend]

Wonder Woman, Aquaman, Shazam and now JOKER. In fact, people who seem like they're smarter than me are predicting that JOKER will cross $600 million worldwide within the next 48 hours. DC characters on film are officially on a winning streak now. Here's hoping we've rounded a corner. I don't think it's deniable anymore.

So now, the obvious question: sequel?

Honestly, I kind of oppose the principle of a sequel. This flick was meant to be a done-in-one proposition. Creating a sequel necessarily requires clarifying the murky ending of the movie and I don't think I want that. I don't think that would benefit the film. Would it be great to see another outing with Phoenix back in the makeup? Sure. But there's a magic to JOKER that I can't imagine a sequel will ever recapture.

There's a time and a place to put the dice down and make a different bet on something else. Now is that time.

[The Dark Knight]

I've been thinking about where a sequel could go. I wouldn't want to see Batman to appear, and Phillips is with me on that. The charm of this movie is the fact Arthur is the main attraction where we follow his struggle. A sequel would have to be done carefully because it could confirm or deny theories and interpretations the original presented in the form of Arthur's hallucinations. Keeping JOKER as one film ensures that mystery is preserved. 

For other people, they think everything after Arthur getting inside the fridge is a dream. Others ask if Arthur has been locked up the whole time. I don't think it goes that far, to be honest. I think the general story is true but with Arthur's mental embellishments.

I'm of the view Arthur was arrested straight after the Murray incident, and driven via police car to jail without incident. Think about it – how do police arrest someone standing in the middle of a screaming mob like that? It would be possible, of course, but would require heavy work. But in any case, I think it's another best case scenario delusion of him being admired. He hallucinated having a girlfriend who thought he was funny. He dreamt about Murray being sympathetic and being a father figure.

But what if I was told to write a JOKER sequel? I'd start with Arthur locked up, which continues immediately after the original but also doesn't negate other theories. I'd have a number of years passing, but nothing major. Say, somewhere around 1985-87.  I'd have a lot focused in jail with his routine, interviews and the like. Harley being a psychologist he takes interest in, with a number of his own delusions playing out (taking place inside jail and outside) ala the original would work.

Perhaps he has been medicated and his overall behavior changes, and eventually he is released (a leap in logic, but it happens in the comics) but isn't being happy about it. Harley has given home hope, and jail is home. He doesn't fit in anywhere else.

I'm not convinced a sequel will happen anyway. The FREEZE talk is not bad idea if they want to continue villain studies. He would be an obvious choice. Heart of Ice is one of, if not the, best B:TAS episodes. The character has the necessary tragic elements they would be looking for. I don't think it would have the same cultural impact as JOKER, but it could have similar acclaim.