The Dark Knight 10th Anniversary Thread

[Silver Nemesis]

This thread is to celebrate the 10th anniversary of Christopher Nolan's The Dark Knight (obviously). Some theatres are hosting special screenings of the film to commemorate the occasion, so feel free to post the times and locations of any cinemas in your area that are doing so. Also feel free to post links to articles, fan art, videos and anything else relevant to this special date. Alternatively you can just list a few things you like about the film, or comment on the ways it influenced comics, games and movies that followed in its wake.

I'll highlight a few things I like about the movie at a later time, but for now here's a video and some fan art to get things started.

[Silver Nemesis]

Although clearly not intended to be canon, it's still tempting to try and fit this Nokia commercial somewhere in the Nolanverse timeline. Batman has the Batpod here, which means it takes place after the Tumbler was destroyed. But judging by the way he handles this street gang, the fight most likely occurs before he's injured himself saving Gordon's son. The fact the Bat-Signal is still operational further supports this theory. So maybe this scene takes place while he's on his way to find Maroni at the nightclub?

Here are some more TDK-related ads from 2008.

[thecolorsblend]

Not sure if this post fits in with the nostalgia theme of the thread. But I rather dig the fan theory of the Joker as the true hero of the movie. It gives the Joker a bigger agenda. He's not a "good guy" but he is effective. He single-handedly restored law and order to the city in just a few weeks. Those are not the actions of a villain.

It's one of those interpretations that stares the viewer right in the face and yet how few of us ever picked up on it.

And it puts Batman's methods, actions and code into a different focus. The Gotham police weren't able to cleanse the city of corruption. Batman was effective but his mission would have taken years, maybe decades. He was brutal, perhaps, but he wasn't ruthless. He colored inside the lines.

And that, perhaps, was his mistake. If he'd adopted the Joker's methods to start with, he probably could've achieved in BB what the Joker achieved in TDK. Yeah, the Joker unwittingly took out some of Gotham's true heroes. But I think the Joker would view it that you can't make an omelette without breaking some eggs. The Joker sacrificed their lives and his own freedom so that many more could live and enjoy their freedom.

In its own way, it's an interesting critique of Batman's approach. Adopting the approach of a certain politician and elbowing his way into office based on his fame in order to root out corruption as Bruce Wayne might've worked. Adopting a Punisher on 'roids angle would've worked as well. But by straddling the middle ground, Batman basically tied his own hands and couldn't deal as effectively with the TRUE rot of Gotham City as a result.

So the villain had to do his job for him.

Anyway...

[Silver Nemesis]

Well, today's the day. The Dark Knight premiered in New York on July 14th 2008. It's not my favourite Batman film, and I don't suppose it ever will be, but I'm going to list five things I like about it in this thread. These are just my own observations and no one has to agree with them. So here we go.

1.   ADAPTING THE SOURCE MATERIAL

The Dark Knight contains more intentional/confirmed references to the comics than any other single live action Batman film. There are plenty of recognisable images, set pieces and lines of dialogue lifted directly from the source material, and this is one of the reasons the film has remained so enduringly popular amongst serious comic book fans.

http://www.batman-online.com/features/2018/7/7/comic-influences-on-the-dark-knight-2008

The filmmakers cited a wide range of comics dating from 1940 to 2007 as having influenced the movie. I particularly admire Nolan and Ledger for engaging with some of the more psychologically complex interpretations of the Joker by writers like Moore, Morrison and DeMatteis. They could have delivered a familiar retread of material that had already been so wonderfully covered by Romero and Nicholson, but instead they gave us a version of the character that felt fresh and challenging. The Joker's one of the most recognisable icons in modern pop culture, but Nolan and Ledger found an entirely new way of approaching the character while still remaining faithful to the source material.

2.   CINEMATOGRAPHY

Note I'm talking about cinematography, not production design. There are other Batman films with better production design than The Dark Knight, but few with better cinematography. Nolan was the first director to shoot a Batman movie with anamorphic lenses. And The Dark Knight was the first to utilise 70mm photography for IMAX screens. There are numerous beautifully framed wide-angle shots displayed throughout the film, and the low-key lighting and use of coloured lens gels help imbue the visuals with a unique identity unlike any other instalment in the franchise.

I still say Batman Returns has the best cinematography over all, but The Dark Knight isn't far below it.

3.   THE WORLD'S GREATEST DETECTIVE

None of the live action Batman films have excelled at showing the character's detective skills, but The Dark Knight does at least contain more onscreen detective work than any other instalment in the series. That's not to say that Nolan's Batman is the best detective, because performance-wise I think Keaton and Kilmer both did a better job at conveying the character's pensive, introverted intellect than Bale did. But Nolan's 2008 movie does feature the most extensive on screen exploration of his detective skills to date.

We know Batman is a detective in the 1989 film because the plot implies he is, but we don't actually see his deductive processes play out on screen. He says "Alfred let's go shopping" and then he gives the solution to the Joker's poison compound to Vicki. We never actually see how he cracks the code. Nobody else in the city could figure it out, but Batman did. Yet it's never explained how. Yes, he's a detective – but his process of deduction remains a mystery to the viewer and occurs entirely off screen. Here's a list of everything in Batman 89, Returns and Forever that could be described as detective work (I'm being quite generous here). I'll also note whether the point in question happens on or off screen.

Batman

•   Bruce spies on Gordon using the CCTV system in Wayne Manor (shown on screen)
•   Bruce observes Ricorso's press interview and identifies the Joker as Jack Napier (shown on screen)
•   Bruce examines Napier's police file (shown on screen)
•   Bruce creates a psychological profile on the Joker (implied – happens off screen)
•   Batman cracks the Joker's poison code (described – happens off screen)
•   Bruce looks over newspaper reports detailing his parents' murder and connects the killer with the Joker (shown on screen)
•   Bruce deduces Axis Chemicals is the source of Smilex production (implied – happens off screen)

Batman Returns

•   Bruce connects Cobblepot with old newspaper reports on the Red Triangle Gang (shown on screen)
•   Bruce spies on Cobblepot at the hall of records (shown on screen)
•   Bruce commissions a report on Shreck's power plant and possibly deduces it's true function (suggested – happens off screen)
•   Bruce notices the injury on Selina's head and possibly deduces it's cause (suggested)
•   Batman monitors the Gotham Plaza tree lighting ceremony to find the kidnapped Ice Princess (shown on screen)
•   Batman records an incriminating speech by Cobblepot and hijacks the public address system to replay it (shown on screen)
•   Bruce instructs Alfred to use signal-jamming equipment to block the penguin commando control signal (shown on screen)
•   Batman traces the penguin commando control signal to locate Cobblepot's hidden base (shown on screen)

Batman Forever

•   Batman discusses Two-Face's psychological profile with Dr. Meridian (shown on screen)
•   Bruce solves multiple riddles sent by Edward Nygma (shown on screen)
•   Bruce reviews security footage of Stickley's death with Gordon, then examines his suicide note and deduces it to be a fake (shown on screen)
•   Bruce consults Dr. Meridian to discuss the psychological profile of his stalker (shown on screen)
•   Batman hides a tracking device amongst stolen goods to trace the Riddler (deleted scene)
•   Bruce examines the 'box' at Nygma's party (shown on screen)
•   Bruce and Alfred discuss the riddles and Bruce deduces their hidden meaning to identify Nygma as his stalker (shown on screen)
•   Batman uses his sonar suit's capabilities to identify the holographic floor in Nygma's lair (implied)

Of these three, I'd say Batman Forever contains the most amount of on-screen detective work. But compare that against what we're shown in The Dark Knight.

The Dark Knight

•   Batman and Gordon use irradiated bills to track mob money (described – happens off screen)
•   Batman visits the crime scene at the bank to discuss the robbery with Gordon (shown on screen)
•   Bruce stages a fake business deal with Lau so he can get a closer look at his financial ties to the mob (described)
•   Batman meets on the rooftop of the MCU to conspire with Gordon and D.A.'s office (shown on screen)
•   Bruce uses Lucius' mobile phone sonar system to map out interior of the building in Hong Kong and locate Lau (shown on screen)
•   Bruce monitors his penthouse security systems to learn the Joker is coming to get Harvey at the fundraiser (implied – happens off screen)
•   Bruce discusses Joker's psychological profile with Alfred (shown on screen)
•   Batman locates Joker's latest crime scene by eavesdropping on police bandwidth (shown on screen)
•   Batman visits crime scene of Joker murders and uses forensic drill to extract shattered bullet from wall (shown on screen)
•   Bruce performs ballistic tests in crime lab to digitally reconstruct bullet (shown on screen)
•   Bruce and Lucius scan bullet reconstruction to locate fingerprint (shown on screen)
•   Bruce investigates Melvin White's apartment after he and Alfred cross reference fingerprint data against Major Crimes Unit database (shown on screen)
•   Batman familiarises himself with Schiff's psychological profile (implied – happens off screen)
•   Batman interrogates Maroni (shown on screen)
•   Batman interrogates the Joker at police headquarters (shown on screen)
•   Batman inspects crime scene where Rachel was killed and locates Harvey's coin (shown on screen)
•   Bruce investigates which cops have relatives in hospital and sends text message to Gordon to warn him about Berg (implied – happens off screen)
•   Batman uses his sonar surveillance system to track the Joker to the Prewitt Building (shown on screen)
•   Batman deduces Two-Face has taken Gordon to the site of Rachel's death and races there to help him (implied)

It's still not a perfect portrayal of Batman's detective skills, but I appreciate that Nolan went to greater lengths than any other filmmaker to incorporate this aspect of the character into the plot.

4.   THE SUPPORTING CAST

In most other Batman films you have Bruce, the villain and the love interest as the main protagonists; everyone else (Alfred, Gordon, Dent, etc) is really just there to facilitate the plot without having an arc of their own. There are exceptions to this, such as the storyline about Alfred's illness in Batman & Robin. But for the most part the earlier films had relegated Gordon and Alfred to minor background roles. But in this film the supporting characters are presented with their own personal challenges. They have difficult decisions to make without the help of Bruce/Batman. For example, Alfred has to decide what to do with Rachel's letter; Gordon has to decide which members of his unit he can trust, as well as how to defuse the situation between Berg and Reese; Lucius has to handle Reese's attempt to blackmail Bruce, and deal with the ethical quandary concerning the sonar surveillance system; Rachel has to choose between Bruce and Harvey. And so on.

What makes these subplots even more interesting is that the characters don't always make the right decisions. We find out in The Dark Knight Rises that there were grave consequences to Alfred burning Rachel's letter. And Gordon screwed up when he ignored Harvey's advice about not trusting Ramirez, which in turn led to Rachel's death. Later Gordon's mistake comes back to haunt him when Two-Face discovers Ramirez was the traitor, but can't kill her because of his coin and so instead transfers her guilt onto Gordon and his family. Are these subplots essential to the film? Maybe not. But they add extra layers of conflict, help crank up the tension and give the supporting characters something more to do than simply cheer on Batman.

5.   THEMATIC CONTINUITY

There's a cohesive ideology spanning Nolan's Dark Knight Trilogy that I find very interesting. In Batman Begins Gotham faces a dilemma. People don't believe in the law because the law has become corrupt, and as a result of this there is no moral authority for the citizens to look up to. Bruce wants to create a new moral authority that is separate from the corrupt judicial system, and one that will inspire people to believe in a higher justice and objective moral truth. But this challenge presents him with the same dilemma faced by the ancient Egyptian pharaohs who proclaimed themselves living gods – namely that if you have a value system instantiated in a living individual on the basis of transferrable sovereignty (e.g. a pharaoh, emperor, king or other head of state), then as soon as that individual becomes corrupted the value system they represent becomes worthless. Alternatively the person embodying the value system can die or be ousted and their successor might embody a completely different set of values. Before you know it, your society has surrendered objective moral truth in favour of subjective relativism. Bruce articulates a shorthand variation of this problem in Batman Begins:

"As a man, I'm flesh and blood, I can be ignored, I can be destroyed; but as a symbol... as a symbol I can be incorruptible, I can be everlasting."

This resembles contemporary philosophical arguments for the utility of Judeo-Christian values in western society. People can lose faith in a political office if they don't like the person currently occupying it, and they can lose faith in a judicial system if it demonstrates itself to be corrupt. Therefore society requires a set of objective moral truths that are instantiated in a symbol that is immune to corruption; something that transcends the frailty of an individual person and which is superordinate to the human condition. And so Bruce creates the symbol of Batman to fulfil this function. And for a time, it seems to work. The only problem is that the moral authority represented by Batman exists outside of the law, and – at times – in direct opposition to it. This leads to the rise of copycat vigilantes.

"This wasn't exactly what I had in mind when I said I wanted to inspire people."

Bruce realises he can't maintain the symbol of Batman indefinitely. Sooner or later he'll run out of steam and people will once again turn to the corrupt law for moral guidance. Then along comes Harvey Dent, a man who embodies the same principles of truth, justice and incorruptibility as Batman. But unlike Batman, Dent is operating inside the law and has a chance to restore moral authority to the justice system. Batman symbolises something that exists outside of the law and cannot be sustained indefinitely. But Dent symbolises a moral authority which can be transferred to the courts once they've been cleansed of corruption. This seems like a better option to Bruce, who is growing tired of his unending one-man war against crime. However the same problem remains from before – a value system represented by a living individual is impermanent and susceptible to corruption.

"You're the symbol of hope that I could never be. Your stand against organized crime is the first legitimate ray of light in Gotham for decades. If anyone saw this, everything would be undone - all the criminals you got off the streets would be released. And Jim Gordon will have died for nothing."

And that's exactly what happens. The Joker is a postmodernist who rejects the concepts of natural order and objective truth in favour of nihilism. He succeeds in corrupting Dent in the hopes of destroying the values he represents.

"Until their spirit breaks completely. Until they get a good look at the real Harvey Dent, and all the heroic things he's done [...] I took Gotham's "White Knight", and I brought him down to our level."

Batman and Gordon then try to salvage the symbolic value of Dent's public image in order to preserve his inspirational impact on the people of Gotham. In effect, they sacrifice the symbol of Batman to create a false idol with feet of clay. But you can't have a symbol of moral truth fashioned from a lie, and once Bane exposes the reality of the situation in The Dark Knight Rises the moral sovereignty of the justice system – which it inherited from Dent – becomes worthless in the eyes of the public. And that leaves only one symbol of moral authority remaining: Batman. The one good thing to come from Bane's exposé of the Dent Act is that it vindicates Batman. It's interesting to note than Bane does not display Batman's broken body in public in the film the way he did in the original comic. Why? Because he wants the people of Gotham to have faith in Batman and to believe he is coming back to save them.

"I learned here that there can be no true despair without hope. So, as I terrorize Gotham, I will feed its people hope to poison their souls."

Bane's mistake is in underestimating Batman. He thinks he is instilling the people of Gotham with false hope, when in reality the hope is justified. Because of this, when Batman returns he has a city full of people ready to believe in him and eager to follow his lead into battle. The justice system failed them. Dent failed them. But Batman endures as a symbol of incorruptible self-sacrificing justice. His existence encourages the people of Gotham to believe in moral truth and to aspire for greatness.

Following Bruce's 'death', Gordon and Blake both try to keep the symbol of Batman alive. Gordon switches on the Bat-Signal to make people believe he's still out there, and Blake contemplates donning the cowl himself. By this point, Batman has transcended the frailties of any one man to become the symbol Bruce had always intended it to be. Maybe it won't last, but for now at least it's given people something to believe in.


Anyway, sorry for the long post. I'm in a rambling mood. I've got many more things to say about the film's narrative structure and its influence on later comics, games and books. But I'll leave it there for now.

Does anyone else want to highlight some of the things they like about the movie?

[thecolorsblend]

Following Bruce's 'death', Gordon and Blake both try to keep the symbol of Batman alive. Gordon switches on the Bat-Signal to make people believe he's still out there, and Blake contemplates donning the cowl himself. By this point, Batman has transcended the frailties of any one man to become the symbol Bruce had always intended it to be. Maybe it won't last, but for now at least it's given people something to believe in.


Anyway, sorry for the long post. I'm in a rambling mood. I've got many more things to say about the film's narrative structure and its influence on later comics, games and books. But I'll leave it there for now.

Does anyone else want to highlight some of the things they like about the movie?

This is a good point. Batman as a totem (not necessarily connected to Bruce Wayne) is a powerful idea. And rather innovative too in that most people want Bruce to be Batman and Batman to be Bruce. Nolan's angle, as you say, is a bit more high-minded than that.

And you could argue Nolan's approach is both more literary (vis a vis the idea of a nameless, faceless folk hero) and more plausible (a real life nameless, faceless folk hero). It speaks to the human condition that we have considerable regard for the anonymous hero who selflessly acts to benefit society.

The idea is that he represents the whole of society so his true identity shouldn't be relevant since his mission is altruistic rather than self-serving. He does not seek personal glory. Oddly enough, Gordon has no trouble hitting upon this notion for himself. "I know exactly who he was; he was the Batman".

The part of TDK that works for me is Bruce's understanding that his personal crusade can't go on forever. He doesn't have the stomach for it. And there's a sense in which it's not actually good for Gotham City to put their faith in extra-legal forces. It's a fine temporary remedy. But if civilization is to continue (much less thrive), the system must be cleansed and the people themselves must rise up.

It makes sense that Dent would attract Bruce's attention. When Batman tells Dent that he, Dent, can be the symbol of hope that he, Batman, can never be, he's not wrong in seeking a named individual with a face (and campaign poster) to transfer his mission to. My argument is that Dent may not have been the best choice for the task but everybody (Batman, Rachel, the police, the mayor, the citizens, the mob, the Joker) recognized he was the only man available for the job.

Going back to the totem idea, it benefits society to have a symbol for giving hope. But ultimately, society needs to see itself dealing with corruption. Whatever Batman's agenda might've been, the people of Gotham could never picture themselves wearing capes and physically assailing criminals. They're not up to that. But they can see themselves in and represented by a good-looking, charismatic district attorney bravely fighting corruption.

When Batman fights the League of Shadows side by side with the Gotham City police force, the contrast is made clearer. The two totems struggle with each other while their deputies fight the real battle on the real streets. The people of Gotham needed to see their police force take the League of Shadows out. There would have been eyewitnesses who watched the battle go down, who saw men and women in uniform fight and reclaim the city literally with their bare hands. The police themselves would tell their stories, celebrate their heroes and mourn their fallen.

So in a sense, Batman gave the people exactly what they needed (eg, a real legal system rising up)... just not exactly in the way he intended (eg, Dent rising up).

[Silver Nemesis]

[thecolorsblend]

Thread necromancy going on here. But I saw this video a while ago and found it pretty insightful. It mentions a few things I noticed (Bruce Wayne and the Joker arriving at the party in basically the same way and to meet the same person) but other stuff went right by me (how Two-Face got the drop on Maroni).

Pretty good overall.

[BatmanFurst]

I know I'm a little late to the game here, but 2018 ain't over yet. The Dark Knight is still my favorite comic book film. When it came out my hype was high, and it blew away all expectations for me. I went in expecting a fun Batman/Joker story, but instead I got a serious crime thriller that is so relevant to the times we live in. Dare I say I think the film is even more relevant now than it was back in 2008. One thing that really stands out to me about this film is how Batman is put into a corner. He tries to fight the Joker using his usual bag of tricks and none of them work which forces him to make the hard decision to spy on the citizens of Gotham. However, by doing that The Joker wins because it proves his point that good people will sink to his level in order to stop him. What a ballsy thing for a superhero film to say. There are more layers in this movie that I don't have time to get into right now, but I do think it's a masterpiece.

What sucks though is that I thought this film was going to revolutionize superhero films, but it really didn't. The only 2 films that somewhat fall in line with what this film was trying to do since its release are X-Men Days of Future Past, and Logan. Hopefully, we'll get to see another Batman film that lives up to this one.

Btw, Silvet Nemesis great job on your 10th Anniversary post. Very interesting stuff.

[thecolorsblend]

Looking back at it now, TDK really was ahead of its time.

Marvel has made a cottage industry out of blending genres. Captain America: The First Avenger is a war film with a lot of superhero trappings thrown in. The Winter Soldier and Civil War were basically spy movies with superhero trappings. Thor was a Shakespearean drama with superhero trappings. See a pattern yet? Blended genres.

TDK was a crime thriller with superhero trappings. Nolan never let that balance slip away. One genre never overpowers the other in TDK.

I'm not saying that mixing genres is the magic bullet for success. But at the same time, it's hard to argue that crossing one genre with another hasn't produced a lot of successful films.

[The Dark Knight]

12 years later, the Joker conversation is a lot more interesting.

Ledger is always going to be deified, but I think Phoenix's power is so great that he has matched or eclipsed that ghost - even if some groups won't admit it. Which is remarkable given a ghost is basically something impossible to compete with.

For all the talk of its darkness back in the day, JOKER's tone makes TDK seem like a cartoon.

IMO, Phoenix's movie is even more relevant and more powerful than TDK ever was, with its own fair share of memorable sequences. I think I've seen more people dancing down stairs in tribute to Phoenix than anything following TDK and Ledger's passing.

The soundtrack, the pacing, the whole hog...all combines to create something very potent. Persuasion wise it is next level. The only real argument the Ledger crowd have is that 'TDK shows the Joker opposed to Batman, whereas the Phoenix film doesn't.'