The Dark Knight Theatrical memories

[The Laughing Fish]

My HYPE levels are low these days.
...

But TESTOSTERONE levels? They're higher than ever. DC better funkin' keep making Wonder Woman movies with Gal Gadot. What a treasure. Did folks see her visit that hospital while dressed in costume? Worth checking out.

I hate to say it, but not even Wonder Woman excites me. I like Gal Gadot in the role and I did enjoy the movie when I first watched it. But like most movies nowadays, I'm in no rush to ever see it again. Just like Black Panther, overhyped than it was necessary. And yes, I'm aware that it sounds too premature to judge, but I can't lie about this - I don't like what I've seen or heard from the WW sequel so far at all.

It's bad enough dealing with the outrageous double standards surrounding the Nolan crap, but after all the fuss about Batman and Superman killing villains in MOS and BvS, here comes Diana ruthlessly killing German soldiers and Luddendorf. I'd rather people just say come and out "look, I admit the stuff I like has their share of problems, but I still find them fun to watch than this and that", I've would've let it be. But no, they just have to go on with this unjustified sense of moral outrage when on the subject of BvS or even Burton's stuff, ignoring the blatant flaws in TDK alone. Don't be fooled into thinking critics and fans will give the new Batman movies a fairer shake, with or without Affleck.

Looking back at my initial apprehension of Snyder when MOS was coming out five years ago, I never thought that I would see myself defending him, and even go far to like some of his films. Yet, I find some appreciating the characters and the themes a lot better from a thematic sense than I would've expected. Maybe if he taken a page out of Nolan's book by paying lip service to the characters' ideas to the audience, his films would've better received.

But here's a few crumbs: at least Nolan was allowed to make his own movies in 2008 and 2012. Snyder got his chance with BvS. But after that everything went downhill. As a result, I just cannot enjoy BvS in the same way anymore. I'd rather not talk about it or see it. BvS is great but it's a haunting echo.

I got to say mate, that's pretty soft on your part. You can be disappointed about the future of the rest of DCEU, and rightly so. But if you do cherish BvS, keep doing so. If you don't talk about it or see it again, the detractors win. That means it's not a film that deserves any recognition at all.

[The Dark Knight]

I got to say 'mate', that's how I feel, and my feelings are what they are. What does BvS lead in to? A Frankenstein amalgamation with unsatisfactory plot conclusions. If BvS was more of a one-off I could feel different. But I don't. And it isn't. BvS now represents everything that we lost when WB got cold feet. The series was over before it even properly started, so going back to BvS is painful.

I was on board 100% with the DCEU, but I've washed my hands of that side of things because WB have.

For me that's not soft. That's hard. Affleck's tenure is likely over, and if so, he leaves the franchise frustrated and humiliated. That sucks and sours the whole experience. 

I'm happy for the DCEU to continue but only as a vehicle for solo WW films. Gal is great in the role, offers stability and frankly, I'm prepared to get behind something else. The character has been dormant for such a long time and I like what they're doing.

[The Laughing Fish]

I got to say 'mate', that's how I feel, and my feelings are what they are. What does BvS lead in to? A Frankenstein amalgamation with unsatisfactory plot conclusions.

It's not the first time we got a follow up with unsatisfactory plot conclusions. But I digress.

I was actually trying to encourage you, didn't mean to come across as condescending if you took it that way. If this is truly how you feel, then so be it.

For me that's not soft. That's hard. Affleck's tenure is likely over, and if so, he leaves the franchise frustrated and humiliated. That sucks and sours the whole experience. 

If you describe it like that, then why should any of us care in the first place? I said it before and I'll say it again, if Affleck chooses to quit because he feels 'humiliated', then I can't say I have much sympathy for him. Don't give fans a false sense of hope, but then succumb criticism to dickhead agenda-driven detractors who shouldn't have any sway on people whatsoever.

With that said, if Affleck were to leave because he was put off by WB's treatment of people, such as rumours of making Snyder sign a non-disclosure agreement after firing and use his family tragedy to cover up the truth, then that would actually be understandable.

[thecolorsblend]

I got to say 'mate', that's how I feel, and my feelings are what they are. What does BvS lead in to? A Frankenstein amalgamation with unsatisfactory plot conclusions. If BvS was more of a one-off I could feel different. But I don't. And it isn't. BvS now represents everything that we lost when WB got cold feet. The series was over before it even properly started, so going back to BvS is painful.

I was on board 100% with the DCEU, but I've washed my hands of that side of things because WB have.

For me that's not soft. That's hard. Affleck's tenure is likely over, and if so, he leaves the franchise frustrated and humiliated. That sucks and sours the whole experience. 

I'm happy for the DCEU to continue but only as a vehicle for solo WW films. Gal is great in the role, offers stability and frankly, I'm prepared to get behind something else. The character has been dormant for such a long time and I like what they're doing.

I can kind of understand. I enjoy the stuff we got. But nothing lasts forever. And some things don't even last very long. Even if they deserve to.

I enjoy MOS and I cherish BVS. Seems like that's the end of the line though. And that's okay, life goes on. I will always respect Snyder for attempting to make a proper FILM rather than a mere product designed to put butts in seats but without delivering much of anything with substance like some comic book movies I could name.

And who knows? It's not like WB is giving up on making Batman movies. They're not geniuses but they're not morons either. Maybe some filmmaker out there will get a chance to make a Batman movie that blows us all away.

As things stand, I've got tons of Batman comics, cartoons and movies to choose from. I'm not hurting for more.

[The Dark Knight]

I can kind of understand.

I knew you would.

If I was Affleck I'd leave too. He films BvS and takes a leap of faith after the Daredevil saga. The film gets smashed and he becomes a 'sad Affleck meme'. He films the sequel. And when he thinks the job's done, WB get on the phone and say "time to reshoot the film again."

Seriously?

I'd be pissed. It would completely re-enforce the feeling the studio is incompetent, and the whole saga isn't worth my time. If Affleck looks overweight or bored in the re-shot scenes you know why.

I imagine he essentially considered JL a done deal. "Uh, Mr. Affleck....I know you're relaxing and enjoying your pizza, but we need you to come back and film all these new scenes....and you're under contract so it's non negotiable....you start again next week." Imagine that phone-call. And at the back of his mind, Affleck probably knew the film's response would still be mediocre.

JL is a follow up with unsatisfactory plot conclusions - THAT IS NOT THE DIRECTOR'S ORIGINAL INTENT.
TDK Rises has its critics, but Nolan essentially put his vision on film. Snyder didn't get that chance.

That makes his era feel complete. I would've preferred WB released the true Snyder cut and then bailed.

Don't be pissed at Affleck. Be pissed at the gutless studio.

As things stand, I've got tons of Batman comics, cartoons and movies to choose from. I'm not hurting for more.

When I'm in a Batman mood I'm focusing on the comics. The Batman Legacy reprint is pretty awesome. The Bane rematch? So good.

[thecolorsblend]

That makes his era feel complete. I would've preferred WB released the true Snyder cut and then bailed.

Don't be pissed at Affleck. Be pissed at the gutless studio.

Aye, and there's the rub. Affleck has every reason to quit. I don't blame him either. Honestly, who needs the grief? Life's too short. He has a thriving career as a director and a resurgence as an actor. Why let some online trolls break the spell for him?

I'll always value what Affleck, Snyder and Cavill tried to do though. History occasionally bites fandom in the @$$. After Fury Road, a lot of fans began reconsidering what George Miller might've delivered with JLM. With some amount of regret.

When I'm in a Batman mood I'm focusing on the comics. The Batman Legacy reprint is pretty awesome. The Bane rematch? So good.

I've been nursing a new affection for Batman comics. Particularly My Batman, which begins in BY1 and concludes with Hush. The character wins, loses, grows, regresses, falls, rises again, the whole program. That run of Batman doesn't necessarily exclude stuff published before BY1. But it's a generally complete run of the character which tells some really amazing and ambitious stories. A ton of risks and chances were taken with Batman comics from 1987 to 2003, and the great majority of them paid off.

To tie it back to TDK (the movie, that is), these days I have a sharper appreciation for it than I did ten years ago, when I think it was being eaten alive a little bit by its own hype. Time has mostly been kind to TDK. Kinder, I daresay, than it will be to [insert Marvel Studios movie here].

[Travesty]

I didn't know where to put this, so this felt like the best place, since we were just talking about TDK, and I don't think this deserves its own thread.

They interviewed Michael Jai White about his role of Gambol for the 10th anniversary, and he had some interesting things to say. Apparently, he filmed a lot more scenes that were cut, and he never even knew his character died in the movie, as he never filmed an actual death scene, which is probably why his death scene looked janky.

Today is the 10th anniversary of The Dark Knight and to celebrate, The Hollywood Reporter spoke to Michael Jai White about working on the movie, including his popular scene with Heath Ledger's Joker.

As you recall, White played Gambol, a gangster that put a bounty on The Joker's head. In the movie, we're lead to believe that The Joker kills Gambol but according to White that wasn't supposed to happen. In fact, he says he shot additional footage that was cut out.

"It was the kind of thing where they had deeper intentions for Gambol; it was a character who was written for future use, I think," White said. "There were other plans to do stuff with that character and some things that were cut out. I think it's because of unfortunately losing Heath Ledger."

"I think that people can tell by the strange cut that I never shot a death scene," White explained. "The character wasn't supposed to be gone. That is something that happened in editing later."

"You don't see mistakes in a movie of that magnitude. When you see something that is somewhat a mistake or is not clarified, there is something behind that," he added.
White went on to say that he didn't know his character died until he saw the movie at the premiere.

"Being that I have been on both sides of the camera, I understood," White admitted. "I was as surprised as anybody. The next few moments after Gambol hit the ground, I was in a state of confusion, like 'What the hell happened? I guess I am not coming back.' But, I have a producer's and director's mind-set, so I was able to look at it and think, 'I guess they must have wanted to go this way.'"

https://batman-news.com/2018/07/18/gambol-wasnt-supposed-to-die-in-the-dark-knight-and-had-more-scenes-says-michael-jai-white/

[The Dark Knight]

This is really interesting and makes sense.

It wasn't a big deal but Gambol's death never really convinced me. I mean, Joker could've quickly moved the knife from Gambol's mouth and to his neck...I guess. Or the knife cut to his mouth could've been extremely messy, leading to a bleed out. But it's still a suspension of disbelief because it's such a quick moment.

The body instantly slumps lifelessly to the ground.

Was the edit done before or after Ledger's death?
And if so, was a stand-in for Ledger used? We only see Joker's back, after all.

What was the original intent? For Gambol to have a cut cheek and fight with the other men for the pool cue?
For Gambol to briefly return again at some point later in the film?

I'm eager to learn more.

[Silver Nemesis]

That's interesting about Gambol. It always struck me as odd that they'd cast someone with Michael Jai White's martial arts skills in a movie filled with fight scenes and then not have him participate in the action. It would have been interesting to have seen him go up against Bale's Batman.

What was the original intent? For Gambol to have a cut cheek and fight with the other men for the pool cue?
For Gambol to briefly return again at some point later in the film?

I'm eager to learn more.

Same here. If the plan was for him to survive the entire movie, then perhaps Nolan had originally intended for him to return alongside Ledger's Joker in the third film.

[Travesty]

This is really interesting and makes sense.

It wasn't a big deal but Gambol's death never really convinced me. I mean, Joker could've quickly moved the knife from Gambol's mouth and to his neck...I guess. Or the knife cut to his mouth could've been extremely messy, leading to a bleed out. But it's still a suspension of disbelief because it's such a quick moment.

The body instantly slumps lifelessly to the ground.

Was the edit done before or after Ledger's death?
And if so, was a stand-in for Ledger used? We only see Joker's back, after all.

What was the original intent? For Gambol to have a cut cheek and fight with the other men for the pool cue?
For Gambol to briefly return again at some point later in the film?

I'm eager to learn more.

Maybe Joker punched Gambol and knocked him out, or maybe he hit him in the nuts? I don't know? But he said he had more scenes, and never filmed a death scene.