Diving and rescuing Harley motif

[The Laughing Fish]

One visual cue that stood out for me in Suicide Squad were two flashback scenes where Batman and Joker both dive inside to save Harley Quinn from drowning.









I can't really read too much into this, other than Harley's dive into the chemical vat signals her rebirth as the Joker's sidekick, and the beginning of the sick romance between the two. Whereas Batman's rescue signals the point of no return for Harley after getting involved in a destructive lifestyle. Presumably, this must've taken place long before Batman went towards a dark path in BvS.

Still, it's a nice motif.

[Catwoman]

I never connected these. Interesting.

[The Laughing Fish]

I've been thinking about David Ayer's recent tweets about Harley Quinn was supposed to reject the Joker, and I believe if Suicide Squad ended with how that was originally intended, it might've helped the film's critical reception a little bit.

Yes, the film as it was released showed Harley wasn't a damsel in distress by any means, she could definitely defend herself and work together in a team to do some good. But I reckon keeping that character arc that was planned for her, where she stands up to the Joker and finally stops the abuse and manipulation once and for all, would've been accepted by critics. Particularly by those who always look to celebrate any sort of female empowerment.

The downside to this is we would get robbed of seeing Harley and Joker as an onscreen couple.

[The Laughing Fish]

A visual effects compositor who made a contribution in Suicide Squad released a video reel of all the films she worked on, and it includes this little deleted moment during Batman and Harley Quinn's confrontation on 0:20 seconds. Sadly, the audio is missing.



As somebody wrote on Twitter, if you lip read what Batman is saying, he's telling Harley "the Joker took something important from me, now I take something important from him". It's yet another nod to the death of Robin.

I don't understand why they decided to delete this line of dialogue. But it's so typical of WB, isn't it?

[The Laughing Fish]

I know it's diverting away from the original topic I started, but following up my previous post, I just found out that Snyder confirmed on Vero that it wasn't Jason Todd who was murdered.

It was Dick Grayson.

[Catwoman]

Wowsers.

[The Dark Knight]

Not surprised, because Dick's tombstone was spotted on the set.



I don't have an issue with that. Familiar but different and with added emotional boost, because we equate Dick Grayson to the lovable Burt Ward incarnation. I wouldn't expect WB to remain true to Snyder's intent though.

Batfleck was someone who had been doing this for so long and had gained so little. He lost so much that he became disillusioned, hence the whole "how many good guys are left?" mentality. After what happened to Dick, and with the arrival of Superman, he stopped looking for justice and started looking for vengeance. That arc really speaks to me because of how bleak it is. Very Batman, and with room for growth.

I don't see Affleck continuing. I see the Reeves films being prequels, with current day Batfleck living on in perpetuity, ala the batarang cameo in Shazam. But to me, Affleck's always going to be a great because of BvS. I would've liked more from him, but in terms of an enduring legacy, he just needed that one film. That's him in all his glory, unaltered and pure.

[The Laughing Fish]

I never caught that little Easter egg with Dick's tombstone in BvS. It's amazing the things you can go back and spot in that movie.

I don't see Affleck continuing. I see the Reeves films being prequels, with current day Batfleck living on in perpetuity, ala the batarang cameo in Shazam. But to me, Affleck's always going to be a great because of BvS. I would've liked more from him, but in terms of an enduring legacy, he just needed that one film. That's him in all his glory, unaltered and pure.

You may have a point when you said in another thread that Affleck will likely leave out of humiliation, but it's not what you might think it is. It's confirmed today he's going back to rehab for a third time to battle his alcohol addiction.

https://abc7ny.com/entertainment/ben-affleck-enters-rehab-for-third-time/4037986/

I'm ashamed to admit it, I completely forgot about his addiction because I was too busy worried whether or not he'd come back. At this point, he needs to take care of his mental health above all else. If he needs to leave playing Batman and quit acting/directing for awhile to achieve it, then so be it. Any addiction, whether it's drugs, alcohol or whatever, is not something to take lightly.

[The Dark Knight]

After all this time it's amazing how people still don't get Zack Snyder or his intent. Snyder again confirmed Dick Grayson is the dead Robin in his universe, and the usual hysterics ensue. Snyder has disrespected another character and probably must hate or not understand Grayson, right?

Such an emotional response only proves Snyder's point – that such a death would really leave a black hole in Batman's heart and send him down a path of depression and rage.

We're told Batfleck's previous 20 years could mean nothing because super powered beings have revealed themselves. He was wondering where to go to next – in the short term it was to take down the alien or die trying. The overall arc, however, is learning to move on from past wounds and rebuild a new crime fighting family with the Justice League.

From Zack's point of view, you need a blank slate to paint that new canvass. It's really that simple. Snyder takes existing concepts and magnifies their impact. Where is the rule it HAS to be Jason Todd?

We were never going to have the good ol' days of Batfleck and Robin, as it used to be, on screen. His incarnation's past is already behind him as a haunting echo, as the graffitied Robin suit demonstrated.

[thecolorsblend]

I like the dead Robin bit because it gives this Batman a sense of history. He hasn't been Batman for twenty years unscathed. There have been victories and there have been defeats. Prices have been paid.

As to the dead Robin in question being Dick, I do struggle with that. But ultimately, I decide that multiple Robins works fine in comics but it does stretch credibility a bit. And something else, I think comic book Batman really would have come unglued if Dick had died. Jason died because he was reckless and bit off more than he could chew. Batman accepts a lot of responsibility for his death but the event itself in the moment happened because Jason far overestimated his own abilities. Dick would never have made that mistake. In the context of costumed vigilantism, Dick was careful in his actions. Maybe not as careful as Tim but still careful.

So if Dick died anyway, it's ONLY because Batman gave him the uniform. He would know that he owns 100% of that. And I could see that single incident cratering Bruce for a long time. Maybe forever. Or at least until somebody shakes him out of it.