David Ayer on deleted scenes

[The Laughing Fish]

Batman did NOT view Superman as a hero. He didn't even view him as a man. He viewed him as a threat to society that needed to be taken down. He saw himself doing the public a favor against an unchecked threat.

Someone who also threatened him directly. "The Bat is dead. Bury it."

As Batman narrates to himself when he locks KG Beast inside the sewer to starve, "sometimes you have to ignore the rules. Sometimes circumstances are such that the rules pervert justice. I'm not in the business to protect the rules. I serve justice."

In the context of BvS, Batman was willing to ignore any rules to take down Superman permanently. In his mind it had to be done, so he set about doing it. I can see why he felt the way he did.

One can complain about this premise all they want, but there's no excuse why they can't understand Batman's reasoning against Superman in BvS. As I said a few times in the past, Batman represents an avatar to the audience that hated Superman in MOS, blaming him for all the destruction taking place through Bruce Wayne's eyes. Bruce not only thought Superman was an abomination, he was convinced Superman's powers were too much of an existential risk for humanity to take lightly, and it was only a matter of time before he starts to go rogue. In Bruce's mind, he had a history of experiencing too many good people turn to the dark side for twenty years. What is the guarantee Superman won't revolt against the planet?

Looking back on the deleted footage in SS, the flashback scene where Batman rides on Joker's Lamborghini before capturing Harley Quinn is definitely condensed. Not only are we missing some footage from the trailer i.e. Harley biting her mouth at the Joker, I remember seeing pictures of the Batman stunt double holding some sort of torch device. It appears he was trying to cut through the roof of the car.

[Dagenspear]

Batman did NOT view Superman as a hero. He didn't even view him as a man. He viewed him as a threat to society that needed to be taken down. He saw himself doing the public a favor against an unchecked threat.

But he knew he wasn't a monster and that he was saving people's lives. He had a perception about a potential future wrongdoing he could commit, but he still tried to kill him without a motive of actual crime. He doesn't need to know him as a man to understand whether or not he should kill him. And that's a problem for some I'd say. I know I take issue with it. It's disturbing that someone needs to believe in humanity to wanna help it, that someone has to know someone as person to not wanna kill them based on things they haven't done.

Someone who also threatened him directly. "The Bat is dead. Bury it."

He was already set on killing him at that point.

As Batman narrates to himself when he locks KG Beast inside the sewer to starve, "sometimes you have to ignore the rules. Sometimes circumstances are such that the rules pervert justice. I'm not in the business to protect the rules. I serve justice."

In the context of BvS, Batman was willing to ignore any rules to take down Superman permanently. In his mind it had to be done, so he set about doing it. I can see why he felt the way he did.

Batman called the police afterwards though. But in the context of that moment, Batman is doing that to a criminal because of the things he's done already. Not only an idea of what he might do. There's a difference between making Batman someone who hates Superman and someone who will kill him based on his existence. That calls massive questions of his sanity and ability to make sound decisions and raises the idea that he can never be trusted again. And the movie never holds him responsible for it or explores those consequences for the implications of his sanity. I understand why he does it, but that doesn't mean that it's an acceptable approach in trying to justify his character later on. Wonder Woman should never trust him again because of it. Superman shouldn't. The movies never would have dealt with the legitimate psychological ramifications of his perception in that movie. He sees Superman as a person and he's fine. He'll never crack like that again. The movies begs questions that it'll never answer. Real questions about the emotional state of a person and their psyche. In Superman and Batman and society. But dismisses them.

[The Dark Knight]

But he knew he wasn't a monster and that he was saving people's lives. He had a perception about a potential future wrongdoing he could commit, but he still tried to kill him without a motive of actual crime. He doesn't need to know him as a man to understand whether or not he should kill him. And that's a problem for some I'd say. I know I take issue with it. It's disturbing that someone needs to believe in humanity to wanna help it, that someone has to know someone as person to not wanna kill them based on things they haven't done.

But in the context of that moment, Batman is doing that to a criminal because of the things he's done already. Not only an idea of what he might do. There's a difference between making Batman someone who hates Superman and someone who will kill him based on his existence. That calls massive questions of his sanity and ability to make sound decisions and raises the idea that he can never be trusted again. And the movie never holds him responsible for it or explores those consequences for the implications of his sanity. I understand why he does it, but that doesn't mean that it's an acceptable approach in trying to justify his character later on. Wonder Woman should never trust him again because of it. Superman shouldn't. The movies never would have dealt with the legitimate psychological ramifications of his perception in that movie. He sees Superman as a person and he's fine. He'll never crack like that again. The movies begs questions that it'll never answer. Real questions about the emotional state of a person and their psyche. In Superman and Batman and society. But dismisses them.

It'd not exactly the same, so it's totally different!

Batman called the police afterwards though.

A different writer added that detail after the fact. The original intent was clear.

[Dagenspear]

It'd not exactly the same, so it's totally different!

Yes.

A different writer added that detail after the fact. The original intent was clear.

The intent isn't canon.

[The Laughing Fish]

David Ayer went on Twitter once again today to reveal something else was cancelled. It turned out there was concept art containing ideas that would've tied directly to BvS and JL.

Enchantress was under the control of a mother box and Steppenwolfe was prepping an invasion with a boom tube. Had to lose that then the JL story arcs evolved.

https://twitter.com/DavidAyerMovies/status/1066495270702145536

I had a look at Suicide Squad's concept art, and I found this article from two years ago. You can see Steppenwolf - as we saw him in that little cameo in BvS UE - popping up in front of the Skwad.



Source: https://www.gamesradar.com/suicide-squad-concept-art-reveals-it-was-more-closely-tied-to-justice-league/

The Enchantress being controlled by the one of the Mother Boxes instead of the voodoo doll would've been something fascinating. When you consider how the Mother Box was used to turn Victor Stone into Cyborg and revive Superman, it would've been a good contrast to show its corrupting influence with June Moone.

Finally, in addition to Batman's deleted dialogue after his rescue and capture of Harley Quinn, it turns out El Diablo originally did NOT die at the end of the movie. This goes to show WB's meddling really and reshoots affected the DCEU in a significant way, long before JL.

[Catwoman]

Wonder why they killed him (El Diablo) off. I liked the character. Not his past but who he was then. Seems to me usually it's the other way around, characters are supposed to die (Knox in B89, Selina in Returns, and so forth) and then someone says "No let's let them live." Don't remember too many cases of "Ok let's kill them off anyway." Guess they felt like they needed some emotional gravity and his self-sacrifice works with his backstory I guess.

[The Laughing Fish]

Guess they felt like they needed some emotional gravity and his self-sacrifice works with his backstory I guess.

Yes, I think the decision to make El Diablo sacrifice himself against the Incubus monster made sense, as atonement for killing his own family. That's definitely one change in the reshoots I agree with.

Ayer and the article with the concept art I posted before also mentioned the creatures in the film were originally meant to be Parademons.

[The Laughing Fish]

I had a look at this very site's Twitter feed, and I saw this small compilation clip of extended deleted scenes. Some of it we've seen from the trailers, but others contain never before seen material i.e. extended Joker dialogue before Dr. Harleen Quinzel is about to be tortured and Joker beating the guard to death who got struck by the picnic basket bomb.

This goes to show the entire scene where Joker takes over Arkham Asylum and torturing Dr. Quinzel was completely cut out of sequence in the recuts, and Leto's Joker had his brutality toned down drastically.

[The Laughing Fish]

I was curious to see if there were any more possible deleted scenes, and Ayer addressed this rare BTS photograph of Harley Quinn, back in November 2017.

This was a pick up shot for the Harley introduction montage.  There was no scene or dialogue. I needed a basket of visuals to introduce her. Same with the Joker stuff. There's maybe a few minutes shot with Jared. There are not endless Joker scenes under guard somewhere. Sorry.

https://twitter.com/DavidAyerMovies/status/934836779621818368

Following up to his comment about the Joker not having an endless amount of deleted scenes, Ayer was asked about the Joker's Batsuit that was on display at Comic Con three years ago.

This was only a toy concept. No wardrobe like this was created.

https://twitter.com/DavidAyerMovies/status/934812969803792384

Pity. It would've been cool to see the Joker mocking Batman in such a manner on film, instead of just looking at a concept created by Hot Toys.

Although the deleted scenes of the Joker's violence was toned down, as you can see in the Facebook link I shared in my last post, it doesn't sound like SS is in a Snyder cut situation. Ayer's tweets doesn't seem to support the idea the film was hijacked, like JL was. It appears the reshoots were done in a more "professional" manner, and most of the story compromises happened during pre-production.

I suppose this means the concept art of Joker sitting in the Batmobile never got filmed either.





One more thing, if anybody remembers that King Shark was rumoured to be appearing in the movie, Ayer confirmed he was considered early on, but opted Killer Croc instead because of CGI concerns.

https://twitter.com/DavidAyerMovies/status/759086882676498432

Still, little moments like the deleted Joker footage and removing Batman's reference to Robin's murder could've made the movie a little bit more enriching.

[The Laughing Fish]

Although the deleted scenes of the Joker's violence was toned down, as you can see in the Facebook link I shared in my last post, it doesn't sound like SS is in a Snyder cut situation. Ayer's tweets doesn't seem to support the idea the film was hijacked, like JL was. It appears the reshoots were done in a more "professional" manner, and most of the story compromises happened during pre-production.

You know what? I take back what I said there, because I was reminded of this report of Warner Butchers wanting to reshoot the movie to match the tone of the Bohemian Rhapsody trailer.

Hey, remember how that first trailer for Suicide Squad was really cool and fun? Warner Bros. does, too. An in-depth piece on The Hollywood Reporter dives into the complicated history of the film, which, like so many studio tentpoles (see: all the drama inside Fantastic Four), went into several rounds of cuts and reshoots as the studio and director David Ayer refined the film. A key takeaway from THR's report, however, is that Ayer and Warner Bros. seemed to be making two different films. After the tepid response to Batman v Superman, the studio wanted something more fun:

A key concern for Warners executives was that Suicide Squad didn't deliver on the fun, edgy tone promised in the strong teaser trailer for the film. So while Ayer pursued his original vision, Warners set about working on a different cut, with an assist from Trailer Park, the company that had made the teaser.

Source: https://www.vulture.com/2016/08/suicide-squad-was-recut-to-be-like-its-trailer.html

What a f***ing sad state of affairs. You've got Zack Snyder posting screenshots of deleted scenes and characters from his cut of JL and saying he had nothing to do with the final theatrical cut, and it appears David Ayer, while telling the truth in some aspects, doesn't seem willing to tell the truth about what happened to his movie. Why? I don't know, maybe because he doesn't want to jeopardise his chances of getting his future film projects funded.

Either way, I'm so tired of Warner's politics.