Solo: A Star Wars Story (2018)

[The Dark Knight]

Back in my more naive days, I thought Harveywood (and all big companies, really) weren't necessarily pushing an agenda so much as simply trying to appeal to potential customers however they can.

Obviously something like scales fell from my eyes. They had to. I don't think Harveywood even denies it anymore with silly libertarian arguments like "We're just trying to market to everybody, that's all".

Nope. Their preference is clear.

When I really think about it, Star Wars is a series consisting of three good movies and a neverending conveyor belt of everything from the truly crappy to the merely mediocre. Three good movies and everything else is an also-ran.

I have no in-grained loyalty to Star Wars anymore. But I will poison that well every chance I get. Scorched earth, burnt oil fields, salted ground, whatever metaphor you want to use, I'm perfectly content to deny Evil Empires like Disney my money. It's not about proving a point anymore either.

It's about pure, undiluted spite. Only this and nothing more.

From hell's heart I stab at thee.

Yeah.

Miller's TDK Returns is full of social commentary but it's handled in a smart way that basically anyone can relate to, even if it's just on a base level. Ineffective and out of touch politicians? Nobody likes them, whatever party you're aligned with. Rampant crime? Again, nobody with a brain likes that. The interesting thing about TDK Returns is that Wolper and his guests are also correct in their statements (Batman inspiring crazies, etc), even though Batman's presence is ultimately a good thing, and a necessary thing. I like that balance.

The subtlety is gone. Or we know how these writers think and feel. TLJ had some curious references. The whole 'resistance' moniker, for example, and Holdo saying "We are the spark that will light the fire that will restore the Republic." I bet the writers got a thrill out of that, hiding behind SW lore while doing so.

The problem I have with movies these days is that the intention is to broadcast what is 'socially acceptable' and reinforce what isn't - according to them. Rubbing people the wrong way isn't smart business and never will be. That's why I'm enjoying videogames, where this stuff is largely downplayed, and the focus is on the gameplay. To have something pure is a rare thing these days, and when it's found, it's a beautiful thing. In terms of the DCEU, I can only really point to the watering down of Joker and Harley's relationship. That's about all I can think of.

WB needs to ensure Aquaman is as good as WW, and then perhaps we can move forward with some purpose.

[Silver Nemesis]

I don't disagree with anything that's been said here. I've seen numerous articles over the past two weeks speculating why Solo has flopped so spectacularly, and not one of them has mentioned the political factor. Yet look at the comment section on almost any box office report and you'll see countless posts from disillusioned fans citing Cultural Marxism as one of their main reasons for avoiding it. The public is sick and tired of having politics shoehorned into previously apolitical IPs. When you politicise family entertainment, you immediately alienate 50% of your potential audience. Most parents don't want to have to explain to their 9-year-old son or daughter what pansexuality is (it's barely even hinted at in the film, but the screenwriters and media made sure to draw attention to it). Condescending comments like this from the writers don't help.

I don't have a problem with someone using a property they themselves have created to make a political statement. But I do object to people appropriating a pre-existing IP as a platform for propaganda. Diversity is fine when it's organic and natural, but when it's implemented in a heavy-handed manner that's intended to impose guilt on one particular demographic (e.g. the First Order consisting almost entirely of white males) then it becomes tribalistic, and that breeds resentment. Ghostbusters 2016 demonstrated what happens when studios wage war against their core fan base. Unfortunately Kathleen Kennedy's remarks about not needing to cater to the male Star Wars fans prove the lesson was not taken to heart. And now Lucasfilm is paying the price for their hubris. In an age when even a Star Wars movie can flop, no franchise is invincible.

At any rate, I still maintain Solo is a decent movie. Just a completely unnecessary one. When Lucasfilm first announced they were making new saga and spinoff films, I was most intrigued by the saga movies and most wary of the spinoffs. But now I find Rogue One and Solo, while by no means masterpieces, are Disney's two most enjoyable contributions to the canon. Meanwhile the new trilogy is shaping up to be a flaming dumpster fire. Still, there may be some good news on the horizon.

'Kathleen Kennedy May Be Leaving Lucasfilm and Star Wars'

https://movieweb.com/kathleen-kennedy-leaving-lucasfilm-star-wars/

Of course the big question now is can Star Wars bounce back from this? I'm not sure. The mood at present feels very different from when the Prequel Trilogy was released. As colors says, Star Wars was basically one amazing trilogy made over thirty-five years ago. There have been some wonderful peripherals since then, like Timothy Zahn's Grand Admiral Thrawn Trilogy, or the Knights of the Old Republic games. But the other movies outside of the Original Trilogy have never come close to matching its brilliance (but I still enjoy Episode III, Rogue One and Solo). Presently Lucasfilm has over a dozen more Star Wars films in the pipeline.

If I were in charge, I'd cancel all but two of them. A few years back, Disney announced they were making three new saga films and three spinoffs. I'd honour that pledge by finishing Episode IX and making one more spinoff – probably an Underworld movie where Obi-Wan takes on Crimson Dawn – then lay the series to rest. I understand that Disney wants to continue making money off this brand, but they can do that through TV shows, videogames and comics. The film series has had its day. Perhaps someone talented will come along in the future with a worthwhile concept for revisiting the universe on the big screen. But for now, Star Wars needs to take a break.

Of course if Lucasfilm and Disney are really serious about winning back the fans, they could always release the unaltered theatrical cuts of the OT on Blu-ray. Just a thought.

And back to comic book movies. Get this folks. DC has TWO...yes, TWO Joker movies in the pipeline. One with Leto and another with some other random sod who hasn't been cast yet. This is MORE unnecessary overkill of comic properties AND a confusion of the brand. They need to get a damn grip on reality and not of their bongs.

At this stage, it almost feels as though Warner Bros is trolling us with all these announcements. They've supposedly got more DC films in production right now than Marvel Studios has released in its entire ten year history. How about announcing a small number of films – maybe five or six to begin with – get those released, and then announce the next lot. It's really not rocket science. Just release Aquaman, Wonder Woman 2 and The Real Captain Marvel (aka Shazam), then give us Man of Steel II (ideally featuring Brainiac), Matt Reeves' The Batman and a standalone Flash movie that isn't based on Flashpoint. I'd be on board with a simple release schedule like that.

From hell's heart I stab at thee.

Now that is a great sci-fi film. Yes, I've read Moby Dick – I know the origins of the quote. But since this is a thread about a science fiction movie, it seems more appropriate to equate the line with old iron pecs himself.

You've only got to compare The Wrath of Khan with Into Darkness to see everything that's wrong with modern Hollywood. The 1982 film was the smallest budgeted of all the Star Trek movies, but it had a great script, strong characters, excellent performances, and an unforgettable score. It also delved into serious themes of life, creation, ageing and the inevitability of death. The 2013 movie had none of those things. It was just another flashy over-budgeted remake made by people who obviously didn't understand why the original was so brilliant to begin with.

Modern western cinema may be thriving economically, but most of it is morally and artistically impoverished. There are too many tribute bands and not enough Mozarts.

[thecolorsblend]

not one of them has mentioned the political factor.

They dare not. Only a fool can say the cultural Marxism has nothing to do with it. But since these reporters know which side their bread gets buttered on, it's not worth saying in public that the politics ruin everything.

So the only logical thing to do is call the dissidents Nazis.

Never in my life have I seen the public so alienated from mainstream media (news, entertainment and everything else) as right now.

Now, I'd cut Lucasfilm a TINY bit of slack in that Star Wars has typically depended upon a certain type of aesthetic. The Empire in the original trilogy were implicitly space fascists. The EU went a step further by presenting the Empire as slightly more extreme. It's all subtextual and it's very limited. But it's there if you look for it in the original trilogy.

Obviously we're way past that now but I thought it was worth mentioning anyway.

At any rate, I still maintain Solo is a decent movie. Just a completely unnecessary one.

That's what I've heard from just about everybody, actually.

Disney seems to have planned for every Star Wars movie to be a $1.5 billion-earner on average. And that's just foolhardy. The saga films (episodes 7-9) might be able to do that but the spinoffs... well, that was always less likely. Rogue One is the exception which I think will ultimately prove the rule.

The spinoffs are more niche-oriented and therefore won't attract as big an audience. Disney should've budgeted accordingly. If they had, Solo's likely $400 million worldwide box office could've been a homerun rather than an even bigger disappointment than Justice League.

Of course the big question now is can Star Wars bounce back from this?

Some big-brains out there are convinced it's not possible. Me, I think it can be done but it'll require doing stuff that Disney doesn't seem prepared to do at present, whether Kennedy is in charge or not. A couple of more years of this and no, I don't think it'll be possible anymore.

It's funny to think that Lucas disappointed the fans on a creative level with the prequels while Disney is actively insulting and antagonizing them. The sentiment these days is almost nostalgia for the good old days, back when their biggest problem with Star Wars was Jar Jar.

Firing Kennedy (if it even happens) is damage control at this point. The big theory is that if she gets canned, Filoni is the guy most likely to take over. Even assuming that's true and even assuming he doesn't have the same obnoxious SJW views (or is at least capable of keeping them out of the creative decisions), a lot of BS is still baked into the cake with Star Wars for right now. Undoing some of that stuff in future productions may not even be possible at this point.

Modern western cinema may be thriving economically, but most of it is morally and artistically impoverished. There are too many tribute bands and not enough Mozarts.

True. And we all know why that is and who is responsible. But naming the guilty parties publicly is no way to win friends and influence people.

At this point, what we need is an alternative to Hollywood. A filmmaking community which springs up somewhere else may be easier to deal with and more willing to take creative risks on new ideas.

Frankly, it's kind of surprising that an anti-Hollywood hasn't already come into existence.

[Silver Nemesis]

[thecolorsblend]

It's probably for the best. Frankly, if these spinoff movies have to be made, it's probably smartest to do them on a relatively low $100'ish million budget and try spacing them apart from the saga films a bit more.

Everybody was predicting the public would burn out on the franchise... but (A) I don't think anybody expected it this soon and (B) the political thing, as said above, probably isn't helping.

[Silver Nemesis]

The most important thing Disney needs to do right now is cancel Rian Johnson's new trilogy. The big selling point behind any trilogy's third instalment is the fact that it's the conclusion, the final chapter. But with Episode IX we know we're getting another three films straight afterwards. And after that, yet another trilogy from the writers of Game of Thrones. What's the hook for Episode IX if we know there are at least six more movies following hot on its trail?

They need to cancel all of these and put Star Wars on hiatus after Episode IX. Make it clear that the door is still open to more films in the future, and that maybe they'll revisit the concept five or ten years from now. But for the time being, let Star Wars and Indiana Jones rest in peace (permanently, in the case of Indiana Jones). Meanwhile they can focus their efforts on other Lucasfilm properties such as Labyrinth or Willow. Or better yet, create some new IPs altogether. They can still develop comics, games and TV shows based on the Star Wars brand – just let the cinematic side of the franchise take a break.

If they don't, Episode IX will be the lowest grossing entry in the Sequel Trilogy. It won't flop as hard as Solo, but it'll underperform and damage the brand value even further. If Lucasfilm want to avoid this, they need to start correcting course now. Otherwise Episode IX could end up grossing less than half of what Episode VII accumulated globally.

[johnnygobbs]

I just saw Solo, finally.

I really enjoyed it.  Much better than The Last Jedi (natch) and The Force Awakens, and maybe even my third or fourth favourite Star Wars film ever, after The Empire Strikes Back, A New Hope, and (possibly) Rogue One.

It's that good, and it's a shape that it flopped seeing as it sets up a possible follow-up, particularly with respect to Kira (Emilia Clarke's character) and her relationship to Crimson Dawn.

[johnnygobbs]

So, following Solo, this is how I'd rank the official Star Wars movies right now:

1.  Episode V: The Empire Strikes Back
2.  Episode IV: A New Hope
3.  Rogue One
4.  Solo: A Star Wars Story
5.  Episode VI: Return of the Jedi
6.  Episode III: Revenge of the Sith
7.  Episode VII: The Force Awakens
8.  Episode VIII: The Last Jedi
9.  Episode II: Attack of the Clones
10.Episode I: The Phantom Menace

[Silver Nemesis]

I go back and forth over which I like best out of Episodes IV and V. Empire is slicker and better directed than A New Hope and has fewer obvious technical flaws. But I love how fresh, optimistic and self-contained ANH is. Right now, according to purely subjective criteria, I think I'd rank the series as follows.

1.   Episode IV: A New Hope
2.   Episode V: The Empire Strikes Back
3.   Episode VI: Return of the Jedi
4.   Episode III: Revenge of the Sith
5.   Episode I: The Phantom Menace (I mostly rank it this high for nostalgic reasons)
6.   Rogue One/Solo (tie)
7.   Episode VII: The Force Awakens
8.   Episode II/Episode VIII (tie)

If I was ranking them based on objective quality, Episodes VII and VIII would be a bit higher and Episode I would be lower.