Cobra Kai

Started by Silver Nemesis, Tue, 6 Mar 2018, 17:29

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The last batch of videos kind of made me worry that this will be yet another "Give the kids the keys to the car" revival of something.

Oh well. If nothing else comes out of this, at least Johnny will get some more character development.

The first two episodes are up for free on YouTube.





So far, I dig this. I like the journey that the characters are on. You and I called some of it. Johnny sees himself as the victim in the first Karate Kid movie. And there's some justification for that, I don't deny it. But whatever happened happened and he's never really recovered from it. So at the end of his tether, he embraces a darkness.

Daniel is different but the same. Life has been good to him. He's gotten soft. If he's not a yuppie, the word has no meaning. Johnny is embracing a darkness but Daniel isn't a saint. He's embraced a corruption.

Neither character is helpless. They can both recognize injustice and they're both capable of acting in defense of others. Neither of them are angels. But their respective falls aren't absolute either.

It's a fascinating moral paradigm. Daniel is raising some bratty kids who get into too much trouble. Johnny is (badly) mentoring a victim who needs an ideal to aspire to. Cobra Kai is not drawing simplistic moral lines so far. There is no black and there is no white; there are only different shades of gray.

The turning point comes at the end of the second episode. Johnny outright tells Daniel that his daughter is trouble and her friends are even worse. That fazes Daniel but it doesn't stop him. He threatens Johnny even though he now believes Johnny's actions are the definition of justice.

Thing is though, Johnny didn't act against injustice in fighting those teenagers. They attacked him so he defended himself. He wouldn't have gotten involved if it hadn't affected him.

But Johnny lets Daniel believe he was a hero even though, let's face it, he wasn't.

These are not simplistic moral lines.

If the rest of the show is as rich as these first two episodes, this will be a good ride.

Thu, 3 May 2018, 22:23 #13 Last Edit: Fri, 4 May 2018, 12:25 by Silver Nemesis
I watched the first two episodes last night and I'm planning to binge watch the rest of the series this weekend. Based on the first two episodes, it's shaping up to be a great show. It's genuinely funny and made me laugh out loud on more than one occasion. My favourite moment so far was when Johnny smashed the kid's inhaler against the wall and told him he didn't have asthma anymore.

Ralph Macchio and William Zabka have both aged really well. Johnny's meant to be a broken down wreck, but Zabka's clearly in great shape. In real life he holds a black belt in Tang Soo Doo, and judging from how he handled those bullies in the first episode he's lost none of his skills. That fight scene was nicely staged. The choreography was smooth and it was shot and edited in a clear, coherent manner. I'm looking forward to more martial arts scenes like that as the series progresses.

Speaking of editing, I assume Johnny's driving montage in the first episode was an intentional nod to the 'No Easy Way Out' montage from Rocky IV.


You hit the nail on the head about the moral greyness. There's no clear hero or villain, which I think is what we were all hoping for. Johnny's sticking up for the underdog, but he only got involved in the first place because the bullies shoved the kid against his car. Until then, he hadn't cared what they were doing. Meanwhile Daniel's defending a bully, but is doing so for a noble reason. Both protagonists' goals are misaligned with their moral character, yet both of them are funny, likeable and sympathetic.

There seems to be a running theme about masculinity and the role fathers play in helping guide their sons from boyhood to manhood. Sadly we live in an age where masculinity is under constant attack. Male sexuality is pathologized with increasing regularity, rowdy schoolboys are medicated to make them act more like girls, college freshman are forced to attend compulsory 'consent classes' that treat them like potential rapists, and many traditionally masculine character virtues are now demonised and regarded as 'toxic'. It's no wonder young males are so confused about their role in society. I like that this series isn't afraid to veer into politically incorrect territory in showing how young men need harsh guidance to help straighten them out and toughen them up for the rigours of everyday life.

Johnny openly mocks his student for whining about 'genderised' language (is that even a real term?) and encourages him to embrace and channel his aggressive side. Obviously Johnny's approach is in many ways misguided, but the underlying principle of a father figure teaching a youngster to toughen himself up, take responsibility and "stop being a pussy" is an important one. Johnny had his own flawed father figure in the shape of Sensei Kreese, and now he's gone and botched the upbringing of his own son. Reopening the Cobra Kai dojo offers him a redemptive second shot at being a dad. Meanwhile Daniel benefited from the guidance of Miyagi in the absence of his own biological father, and as a result has matured into a patient and loving parent who's done a good job raising his kids. Only now he's taking a bully under his wing in a gesture of misdirected compassion. Both father figures are weaponising the youngsters to use as pawns in their battle against one another. It'll be interesting to see how that battle plays out.

SN, just finished episode 06. I am DIGGING this series. Tons of heart, plenty of humor, real drama, well-written characters, the whole enterprise is spot on so far. It's an ensemble piece and I appreciate that about it. It's not a "Let's turn everything over to the kids" train wreck like I feared. But neither is it a straight up nostalgia trip.

There's meat on the bone that's true to who these characters are. Their trajectories are believable considering what's come before. This show is taking a lot more risks than I ever would've guessed.

Finished the series. Something happens literally at the last minute... which got spoiled for me because some of these jackass headlines don't protect against that stuff. So that part wasn't a huge shock... though it might've been.

Apart from some vanishing subplots, this was overall a good series. I wasn't expecting it to be an ensemble piece. But I can't argue with how effective this works as an ensemble piece. I daresay it would be a lesser story if the focus was strictly on Daniel and Johnny.

No spoilers from me. At least not yet. Because this bad boy is worth watching with as many surprises as possible.

I finished the last episode. I thoroughly enjoyed the entire series.

I don't have any major criticisms, but if I was to highlight a few negatives I'd say the teen romance subplot didn't hold my interest as much as other aspects of the show. Once or twice the storytelling dipped into 'idiot plot' territory, with characters making incorrect assumptions that could have been easily dispelled with a simple verbal explanation. Other than a few soap opera moments like those, I thought the writing was generally strong. The dialogue was funny, the character arcs were well mapped out, and the overall tone struck a satisfying balance between drama and humour. It was a little contrived that the one girl Miguel fell for just happened to be Daniel's daughter, but considering almost every Charles Dickens novel features doubly improbable contrivances, it feels a bit pointless whining about it here.

Cobra Kai really is a character-driven show. I couldn't see it working as a feature film. The serialised TV format is better suited to this pace of storytelling and the 30 minute runtime for each episode works surprisingly well. So well in fact that I'm wondering if 30 minute episodes might be more appropriate for other serialised TV shows, rather than the standard 45-60 minute episodes. Would the pacing problems with the Marvel Netflix shows be resolved by having shorter 30 minute episodes? 60 minutes may work better for anthologised programmes showcasing standalone plots, but for this type of long-form narrative – which more closely resembles a novel than a short story – I think 30 minutes is perfectly adequate. The scripts do a wonderful job of presenting each character's unique perspective and making us care about them. With the exception of the high school bullies, everyone in this show has a likeable side. Consequently we, the viewers, feel just as conflicted watching the final round of the tournament as Johnny does. He's watching his star pupil fight his son; we're watching two good kids from rough backgrounds striving for balance in their lives.

The point about it not being a retread is the key to why it works. It tells a new story that's worth telling. Obviously structural parallels with the original film crop up during the final tournament, but that doesn't make it a retread. Any film set within a sporting field will to some degree have its narrative structure dictated by the sport in question. This is why I always defend the Rocky films from the criticism that they're formulaic. Ok, so each film ends with a boxing match. But they're boxing films – how else should they end? The same applies here. The Karate Kid films were always tournament fighters, and the new series continues that tradition. But the surrounding story is inventive and fresh. And when they do intentionally reference the older films, it's often done subversively for comic effect (Daniel clapping his hands together and calling for a medic was another laugh out loud moment for me).

Characterisation is where this show really shines. You'll start off liking one character and hating another, and by the end of the series your sympathies have totally flipped. I was rooting for characters like Miguel and Lip/Hawk for most of the season, but by the finale I was mentally booing them. Similarly I started off disliking Robby, but ended up cheering for him in the last episode. Daniel and Johnny are portrayed differently from their younger selves, but different in such a way that feels like an organic progression rather a total reinvention. I never had trouble believing these were the same characters from the original trilogy, and I appreciated seeing their arcs progress in new directions instead of just having them repeat what they did in the eighties. A part of me wanted to see Daniel and Johnny fight, but another part of me knows that that would have been easy fan service. They could build up to a Daniel vs. Johnny showdown in a future season, but I respect them for not doing so in season one.

I assumed this was going to be a standalone event series, but the final episode is clearly setting up more episodes to come. Fortunately I didn't have you-know-who's surprise appearance spoiled, so the final scene brought a huge smile to my face. Rather than see Daniel fight Johnny again, I'd be more interested in seeing Johnny fight that guy. Then have Daniel fight Terry Silver. Maybe that's what'll happen. Regardless, I enjoyed season 1 and I'm on board for season 2. This show was clearly made by talented people with a strong understanding of what made the original films special. It's a must-see for fans.

One subplot that kind of disappeared was Robby's blowback from betraying his thug friends. His confrontation with them promised payoff and, presumably, that should've happened this season. Don't get me wrong, the logical end point for Robby's arc this season is a showdown at the All-Valley Tournament, most obviously with Miguel. So in a certain sense, he doesn't need "closure" with his thug friends.

Nevertheless, closure was promised. But not delivered.

That's small potatoes though.

One thing that worked for me in the show is the fight choreography. The fight choreography in the films is okay but nothing to write home about. Obviously the idea was to use more grounded and realistic choreography in the three movies. So I can't knock the philosophy of it too much. But mostly it's done in a fairly pedestrian way.

That's a problem from which the YouTube series suffers. I have no idea what the Robby actor's background is. But he SELLS those moves. His balance looks right, his footwork seems pretty solid, etc. In fact, that's true of all the cast. I have no idea if they trained a bunch for the YouTube show or if most of them are legit martial arts students. But there's no arguing with the end result.

Like you, I enjoyed the lack of a pitched battle between Daniel and Johnny. In fact, I like that Daniel is mostly shown doing kata or expressing the philosophy of Miyagi's karate but without ever really mixing it up with anybody. It fits the sad sack he's sort of become.

The really interesting thing is that Johnny and Daniel each arguably took very different lessons from the events of the season than other did. I, for one, got the distinct idea that Johnny was starting to wonder that he'd created a Frankenstein with the Cobra Kai dojo. Miguel did literally everything Johnny ever trained him to do... but maybe that isn't what Johnny wanted... and it took watching Miguel defeat his own son to figure that out.

Meanwhile, Daniel watched his student get defeated and begins thinking he needs a dojo of his own. But why? It's just a tournament. Luck of the draw. Miguel won. But any other day at any other time, things might've gone differently. Why is Daniel taking this so personally? Daniel says that Johnny isn't a cartoon villain to be defeated... but his actions defy his words.

The other thing, Miyagi could've opened a dojo, trained more students, commodified this ancient discipline for profit and all that. But he affirmatively chose not to do that. Hell, he only trained Daniel reluctantly at first. This begs the question of who the ***k Daniel thinks he is to go against Miyagi's unstated wishes by opening a dojo. And using Miyagi's own property to do it, no less!

Johnny might be starting to regret his decision to open a dojo... and maybe Daniel will ultimately do the same.

You mentioned Kreese and Silver. Going into this, I wondered that the events of TKK2 and 3 might be ignored. But no, Silver got name-checked and goings on with the other are obvious. I like that Cobra Kai isn't leaving anything out. Considering TKK3's reputation, it must have been tempting to disregard that chapter of the story. But Silver's mention, the bonsai trees, Daniel mentioning his business venture with Miyagi, etc, that movie is definitely canon.

I could go on but enough is enough. Point is that this was absolutely worth signing up for YouTube Red. Can't wait for future seasons.

If the new Star Wars movies were doing as good a job honoring their past while building their future, odds are I would be in love with them.

That's a fair point about Robby's friends disappearing. Their absence in the latter part of the season is conspicuous, and there should have been some sort of retaliation for the car park fight. Maybe in season 2 they'll address that. I had a similar issue with Kyler. He doesn't flat out disappear the way Robby's friends did, but his role is reduced to an almost mute background player towards the end of the season, despite him being built up as a major character in earlier episodes. I guess that was meant to illustrate how the balance of power had shifted in the high school, with Kyler being demoted from in-your-face jock to mousy beta male. The subplot about him ruining Samantha's reputation was never quite resolved either. So these are all plot points they can revisit in season 2.

I was wondering about the young actors' martial arts backgrounds too. Did they cast them based on their MA training, or did they train them from the ground up for the series? The martial arts choreography is definitely another of this show's strengths. I love the way the contrast in fighting styles reflects the contrast in philosophies and temperaments.

Cobra Kai karate is obviously the more aggressive discipline. Its practitioners usually begin by proactively closing the distance between themselves and their opponent and launching straight into a pre-emptive attack. "Strike first!" It's mostly fast jabs, elbows and sweeping kicks.


Miyagi-do karate is more passive and typically entails waiting for your opponent to come to you, then blocking/deflecting and counterattacking. It also makes better use of grapple techniques, whereas Cobra Kai karate is 95% strikes. Many of the grapple moves resemble aikido in how they use an opponent's momentum against them.


Cobra Kai karate is all about strength, speed and invasive manoeuvring. Miyagi-do karate is about reflexes, precision and controlling the space around you. Both styles require the practitioner to be in the correct state of mind: for Cobra Kai karate it's a state of aggression and ruthlessness, while for Miyagi-do karate it's a state of calm, focused balance. It's not entirely obvious which style is the more effective, though Cobra Kai karate appears to be easier and quicker to learn. And while it is primarily an offensive style of fighting, it can also make for an effective defence.


However the greatest master of Miyagi-do, Miyagi himself, was able to singlehandedly defeat the top three masters of Cobra Kai at the same time. I don't know if that proves Miyagi-do is the superior discipline, or if it just proves Miyagi himself was the better fighter.


Does anyone know what style of karate the defending champion was using in the Cobra Kai finale? I mean the guy in the blue gi who gave that speech about tolerance (lol). His technique looked more like tricking or capoeira than any form of karate I've seen.

In a related bit of news, Sean Kanan has expressed an interest in reprising his role as Mike Barnes from The Karate Kid: Part III. Judging from its highly positive reception, I think another season of Cobra Kai is inevitable. So Barnes may return after all, provided of course he's no longer trying to take over Metropolis in the name of the Nazi Party.


Quote from: Silver Nemesis on Mon,  7 May  2018, 22:26However the greatest master of Miyagi-do, Miyagi himself, was able to singlehandedly defeat the top three masters of Cobra Kai at the same time. I don't know if that proves Miyagi-do is the superior discipline, or if it just proves Miyagi himself was the better fighter.
I assume the latter. As an interpretive thing, I guess I always assumed it came down to how well the student embraced the philosophy of his dojo. Daniel held his own against Johnny in TKK1 but only scored a whoppin' one point on Barnes in TKK3... and I assume the reason for that is because Barnes was a lot closer to the Cobra Kai ideal by nature than Johnny ever was on his best day. Cruelty was probably Barnes's most powerful weapon.

Quote from: Silver Nemesis on Mon,  7 May  2018, 22:26In a related bit of news, Sean Kanan has expressed an interest in reprising his role as Mike Barnes from The Karate Kid: Part III. Judging from its highly positive reception, I think another season of Cobra Kai is inevitable. So Barnes may return after all, provided of course he's no longer trying to take over Metropolis in the name of the Nazi Party.
I really dug that episode of L&C.

But anyway, as far as Kanan is concerned, he'd be welcome in my book. It might be kind of interesting to watch Barnes and Johnny struggle over the Cobra Kai identity: Johnny as the (relatively) kinder, gentler reformer and Barnes as the set-his-hair-on-fire radical, with Kreese in the background doing a Palpatine impersonation.

But honestly, there are probably zillions of directions they could go in at this point.