Podcast analysing Justice League

[The Laughing Fish]

The good people at JLU Podcast have begun their analysis on JL. They've been analysing scenes from the Wonder Woman movie too.

http://jluniverse.podomatic.com/

Alternatively, you can also check out the host of the podcaster on his YouTube page. Samuel Otten uploads each episode here, analysing the themes and giving commentary to nearly every DCEU film. The podcasts for JL will grow over time, but feel free to check his other analyses for BvS, Wonder Woman and Suicide Squad. In the meantime, here are the podcasts discussing first three scenes of JL.

While Sam is fairly observant in his praise for the DC films, he's not afraid to give his critique. For example, he finds the Batman rooftop scene to be reminiscent to a Burton Batman film in terms of how it's staged, acted and how the score sounds, but he doesn't think it fits the gritty tone established in BvS. An interesting critique, but as I said elsewhere, my complaint about this scene is how Elfman's score, particularly in this scene, just sounds surprisingly flat and the way it ends awkwardly where Batman suddenly forgives the thief. As if the threat of the Parademon somehow makes the guy's crime null and void.

In the opening credits, he analyses the despair and impact following life after Superman, with a sense of despair and anger feeling widespread across Metropolis and with Lois and Martha. A great connection is made how the Kent family home is breaking down and somewhat abandoned; a little similar how Wayne Manor is wrecked and left behind in BvS, born out of loss and vanquished hope. But going back to the opening credits again, my only critique is the inclusion of the man getting arrested for harassing a Muslim family. I'm not totally convinced how that sort of prejudice has got to do with mourning for Superman, unless you want to claim it goes back to how powerless and loss of hope turns men cruel as it's established in BvS.

[Travesty]

I dunno, I don't feel like there's that much to analyze over JL. I don't see it as a very deep movie. It's very much a surface level movie. I enjoyed it and had fun with it, but there's not much going on there. It reminds me of episodes of the animated JL. Fun to watch, but not much going on, other than the heroes getting together, to defeat the obvious threat.

And I'm not saying that to take a dig at it, but it is what it is. There's not much going on with the story. After Snyder stepped down, it turned into more of an easily digestible product.

[thecolorsblend]

After Snyder stepped down, it turned into more of an easily digestible product.

For all the good that did in the end, eh? The movie tanked it at the box office.

[The Dark Knight]

Bingo. Warts and all Justice League would've been a much more interesting film to discuss.

[The Laughing Fish]

I dunno, I don't feel like there's that much to analyze over JL. I don't see it as a very deep movie. It's very much a surface level movie. I enjoyed it and had fun with it, but there's not much going on there. It reminds me of episodes of the animated JL. Fun to watch, but not much going on, other than the heroes getting together, to defeat the obvious threat.

And I'm not saying that to take a dig at it, but it is what it is. There's not much going on with the story. After Snyder stepped down, it turned into more of an easily digestible product.

Judging the film as a final product (forget about the drama behind the scenes for a moment), I think its biggest handicap is it doesn't explore how the world regains hope and joy once Superman returns at the end of the story. You build an introduction where places around Metropolis and the rest of the world is heartbroken over his death, but we're robbed of an opportunity to see Superman fully embraced for his heroics for the first time. The lack of seeing a closure here does undermine the theme of witnessing humanity joining Kal-El into the sun, as Jor-El foreshadowed in MOS.

Otherwise, I'm actually okay with how Superman is brought back here. I know some people here are going to disagree with me, but I perceived his behaviour as a gratitude for being alive again with a new set of focus, that he doesn't have to go save the world alone anymore, and that he's passed the guilt for now.

But my biggest concern is the future. WB may say they're moving forward with the rest of the DC franchise, but I have no idea where they're going next.
If Flashpoint pulls some X-Men bullsh*t by cherrypicking continuity, or worse - rebooting the entire timeline and makes the previous films obsolete, count me out. I gave up on the Fox franchise because of that rubbish. I have no tolerance for that at all.

[The Dark Knight]

It reminds me of episodes of the animated JL. Fun to watch, but not much going on, other than the heroes getting together, to defeat the obvious threat.

After Snyder stepped down, it turned into more of an easily digestible product.

I'm returning to these points because I have more to say after rewatching the film yesterday.
Yeah, I have issues (mostly cut content), but there's still a lot that I like. And I'm going to focus on that here.

The roles are perfectly cast. Affleck, Gadot, Cavill, Momoa, Miller, Fisher, Irons, Simmons and Adams are all likeable in their roles and fit them like a glove. For that reason I feel the need to keep watching the film. The studio nailed it. The same thing can be said of Suicide Squad. Say what you want about that outing (I give it and JL a 7.5 these days) but the cast members are also fun to watch and drive the film.

Batman studying the Parademon? Overall it's breezy fun (despite some quibbles). We get some nice visuals and Batman is presented as an athletic wraith who backflips, glides and interrogates foes. Jumping onto the Parademon in flight and shielding his face from the explosion without taking a backward step is something right out of the Arkham games. Leaving the criminal on the rooftop raises some eyebrows, but perhaps Batman thinks the ordeal was punishment enough? Either way, we do get some nice action here. And Affleck makes it work.

Wonder Woman stopping the terrorists? Again, breezy fun. The shot of her standing on the statue is great, and capturing the goon with the lasso and lifting him up is visually exciting. The Zimmer theme is reworked but still works a treat.

The transition to Bruce meeting Aquaman is rather abrupt, but the sequence itself is okay, even though inserts are noticeable. The charm of Affleck and Momoa makes it work I think. In fact, the scenes right up to Steppenwolf's arrival are all fine. I'd argue the issue is letting the film breathe and transition a little better because it does start to get jam packed with several plot points coming into existence.

The arrival of Steppenwolf is a highlight of the film for my money. It gives direct continuity to the previous film in the DCEU. Nobody comes off looking bad. Steppenwolf is depicted as a ruthless warlord who kills a bunch of people, and the Amazons are depicted as fearless warriors who never give up. The scene works in every way, and the transition to Diana watching the television afterwards is more seamless.

The sequence with Lois and Martha is something out of a television show. I like the actresses but it's not my favorite scene or anything.

Bruce and Diana meeting in the bat cave is a minor but pleasant scene - no issues with it. We see Bruce Wayne as the mechanic, which is a big plus for me. Just as we saw Keaton's Bruce working on the Batmobile in Batman Returns.

The story about Steppenwolf is condensed and, again, probably makes the film feel jam packed considering the runtime and the plot threads they establish. But it's an okay scene. The real strength for me is the dialogue scene with Bruce and Diana by the lake. Especially Bruce's clothing, which strongly evokes The Dark Knight Returns. Anything with Bruce and Diana is worthwhile.

Bruce meeting Barry? Another breezy little scene. I'm miffed the ending of it has been trimmed (it had Bruce speeding away up a highway ramp) but the general scene remains intact (even if a reshoot insert is noticeable).

Steppenwolf stealing the box from Atlantis isn't as dramatic or visceral as the sequence on Amazon island, but there's nothing seriously wrong with it.

The sequences with the little girl and family don't do anything for me, sadly. They'd be my least favorite sections.

But everything from Gordon being revealed, Bruce/Barry exiting the plane, the rooftop meeting, the tunnel sequence and the Knightcrawler escape is gold to me. I really like this stretch of the film. The discussion inside the bat cave also works for me. I love how we see the Knightcrawler back in the cave under a green tarp - strongly suggesting Batman recovered the vehicle and will repair it later. I'm a big fan of DIY Batman.

Folks, I think the dialogue scene in the bat cave is perhaps the single best moment for any cinematic Bruce Wayne. If Whedon shot the scene I don't care, because again, Affleck makes it work. He's wearing a classic vest, ala BTAS Bruce. This scene allows him to be compassionate and firm. The man who has interest in science and will take calculated risks. But the best part? When he grills Diana about Steve Trevor. That's the ruthless and personal Wayne we all know and love. Hr's punched back by a metahman but he still doesn't back down.

Superman's revival gets the job done. We see him at full power, easily dispatching the League. For what it's worth that's fun.

Any dialogue scene with the League members (in the cave or Flying Fox) are worthwhile to me. Batman destroying the shield in the final battle, driving around the streets in the Batmobile, etc are harmless. You can have a good time with this stuff. But indeed, it's doubtful this is everything Snyder had in mind - a suicidal Batman who redeems himself was likely on the cards. But that's a what if now.

Superman returns and punches Steppenwolf around. Good to see, I guess. But indeed, there could've been more done with Superman. But again, it is what it is. Steppenwolf is defeated and on the whole, he isn't the best villain but I also don't dislike him.

The shot of the League overlooking the town is nice, and the small scene with Bruce buying Clark's old house is a standout. The final montage is actually pretty good (the ruined Wayne Manor becoming the Hall of Justice is a completely new concept). I like Amy Adams, but do think her voice is too quiet for the closing monologue, however. The short rip is a big treat for Superman fans, but we don't get any explanation as to how Clark returned to work. Nor do we see how the world has reacted to Superman's return.

The film doesn't have serious depth as a BvS sequel, but it manages to get the job done. The same can be said of Danny Elfman's score. I wanted to hear more of the Zimmer themes, and was let down in that regard. But again, it is what it is. 

It's not the exact version of the film I would've liked, but I'm not going to pretend I dislike everything they did. The cut scenes really tore a hole in me, but it's something I've had to come to terms with. Justice League is not a bad film - it just could've been something more. But I won't throw the baby out of the bathwater. Affleck, Gadot and the team provide chemistry that should still be enjoyed.

[The Laughing Fish]

Folks, I think the dialogue scene in the bat cave is perhaps the single best moment for any cinematic Bruce Wayne. If Whedon shot the scene I don't care, because again, Affleck makes it work. He's wearing a classic vest, ala BTAS Bruce. This scene allows him to be compassionate and firm. The man who has interest in science and will take calculated risks. But the best part? When he grills Diana about Steve Trevor. That's the ruthless and personal Wayne we all know and love. Hr's punched back by a metahman but he still doesn't back down.

Indeed. Dare I say it, it's good to see an alpha male stay strong and call somebody out. Come to think of it, Affleck's Bruce Wayne was never shy when being confronted, i.e. dismissing Clark Kent's skepticism over Batman by suggesting Superman is an even bigger existentialist threat when they first met in BvS. It's great to see Batman has balls, I hadn't seen that in a long time.

But who knows, I guess in today's heavily PC-influenced society, people don't really like that.

It's not the exact version of the film I would've liked, but I'm not going to pretend I dislike everything they did. The cut scenes really tore a hole in me, but it's something I've had to come to terms with. Justice League is not a bad film - it just could've been something more. But I won't throw the baby out of the bathwater. Affleck, Gadot and the team provide chemistry that should still be enjoyed.

Agreed. The chemistry between the actors playing these characters is enough to make JL watchable. It would've been a much poorer film without the camaraderie.

Another good scene I like and I suspected it was directed by Whedon, was the scene where Wonder Woman cheekily used her Lasso of Truth on Aquaman to confess his fears and sensitive side before the team prepares for battle. Added some good-natured humour there. But nah, according to critical consensus, Drax's sexist comments at Mantis and Flash Thompson calling Spider-Man 'Penis Parker' are great examples of how Marvel really bested DC at humour. Give me a bloody break!

[The Dark Knight]

Folks, I think the dialogue scene in the bat cave is perhaps the single best moment for any cinematic Bruce Wayne. If Whedon shot the scene I don't care, because again, Affleck makes it work. He's wearing a classic vest, ala BTAS Bruce. This scene allows him to be compassionate and firm. The man who has interest in science and will take calculated risks. But the best part? When he grills Diana about Steve Trevor. That's the ruthless and personal Wayne we all know and love. Hr's punched back by a metahman but he still doesn't back down.

Indeed. Dare I say it, it's good to see an alpha male stay strong and call somebody out. Come to think of it, Affleck's Bruce Wayne was never shy when being confronted, i.e. dismissing Clark Kent's skepticism over Batman by suggesting Superman is an even bigger existentialist threat when they first met in BvS. It's great to see Batman has balls, I hadn't seen that in a long time.

But who knows, I guess in today's heavily PC-influenced society, people don't really like that.

I really love it. He's surrounded by people much stronger than him, but he's not intimidated. Instead of backing away he turns up the volume. They're all being transported via his vehicles and they're huddled inside his cave. He's a human being but he's the money man and still the top dog. Honestly, the only quibble I had with JL's Batman was one out of place/awkward line about something definitely being broken. There's a lot to like about this portrayal.

[Travesty]

Honestly, the only quibble I had with JL's Batman was one out of place/awkward line about something definitely being broken. There's a lot to like about this portrayal.

There were a few lines from Batman that seemed out of place. Like you said, the part where Superman throws him around, he says something feels broken. The other line, was at the end, when he's talking to Superman, he says something to Batman about him hating on him, and Batman says something like, "I don't...not like you".

Both of the lines felt a bit out of place, and I know those were both Wheadon's scenes.

[The Dark Knight]

Honestly, the only quibble I had with JL's Batman was one out of place/awkward line about something definitely being broken. There's a lot to like about this portrayal.

There were a few lines from Batman that seemed out of place. Like you said, the part where Superman throws him around, he says something feels broken. The other line, was at the end, when he's talking to Superman, he says something to Batman about him hating on him, and Batman says something like, "I don't...not like you".

Both of the lines felt a bit out of place, and I know those were both Wheadon's scenes.

I forgot about that line, and I don't like it either. But yeah, apart from those things, it was a balanced interpretation of a Batman that I can enjoy. I dig how he glides, grapples and descends like the comics/video games. The Knightcrawler is one of my favorite Bat vehicles now, and its use in the film is spot on. Batman in trouble against a muscular Parademon, asks for help, manages to recover and shoot down the rest. The visual of the vehicle climbing the shaft with the flooded river underneath is rather spectacular, too. Superman was simplified in JL, but Batman still comes off well.