Justice League - ***SPOILER TALK***

[Travesty]

If they scrap the DCEU, I don't think I'll ever watch another DC live action adaptation ever again. Without the likes of Affleck, Cavill and Gadot together, there's no point sticking around. and I'm not interested in seeing another actor donning the cowl for Matt Reeves.

Nah, I'll never be done. The characters are bigger than any actor, director or box office numbers. I was there for the crumbling of live action Batman with B&R, and I'll be here for whatever else comes out. You have highs and lows, and I'm no fairweather fan. I'll take it all, even if it's not my cup of tea, or even if it's not as successful as I wish it would be. All you can do is be excited for new movies, comics, shows and games, and just hope that whatever they release is quality. That's all.

[riddler]

Theres dozens of ways to interpret these characters, it's not as if the current cast and crew is the only hope. I think the DCEU will continue, they may not be meeting production goals they set for themselves but none of the films have bombed and they do have one financial success to hang their hats on. Fan reaction should be taken with a grain of salt. There are fanboy groups out there such as Marvel fans and Nolan fans who will hate on any DC project no matter who is involved. We're kidding ourselves if we're pretending that the IMDB wasn't flooded on opening day by fanboys voting 1 without seeing it. Such should be taken with a grain of salt.

[Dagenspear]

If they scrap the DCEU, I don't think I'll ever watch another DC live action adaptation ever again. Without the likes of Affleck, Cavill and Gadot together, there's no point sticking around. and I'm not interested in seeing another actor donning the cowl for Matt Reeves.

I hope I'm wrong, but if the worst scenario does happen and the DCEU is shelved, the only thing we can do is treat MOS, BvS and JL as a trilogy of sorts. Some fans on Twitter are calling it the Superman trilogy, while others are describing it as the "Dawn of Justice" trilogy. The latter part makes more sense to me.

I don't understand this. If you're a Batman fan, why is there no point? I dislike the DCEU. I'm annoyed that it took so long to get to JL. I like pretty much very little that I've seen of JL, but I'm still going to watch it... eventually. It's Batman. Matt Reeves I've heard is a good director. A recast is just that. It's happened for decades. Ben Affleck being recast has no more meaning than Keaton or Kilmer. Or Christian Bale, if they'd decided to do that. It's still Batman. Where's the dealbreaker in a recast? Batman isn't a single actor. He's a character that can be explored by many different directors, with many different facets to his personality. I have reboot burnout too personally if that's your issue, but I don't know why that's cause for abandoning all the potential future films. Have a very great day!

God bless you all!

[The Laughing Fish]

Nah, I'll never be done. The characters are bigger than any actor, director or box office numbers. I was there for the crumbling of live action Batman with B&R, and I'll be here for whatever else comes out. You have highs and lows, and I'm no fairweather fan. I'll take it all, even if it's not my cup of tea, or even if it's not as successful as I wish it would be. All you can do is be excited for new movies, comics, shows and games, and just hope that whatever they release is quality. That's all.

I do get what you're saying Trav, and I even appreciate your stance. But I can only speak for myself here, and honestly, I just can't find the enthusiasm over the thought of rebooting and recasting again and again and again. It's too draining.

[The Laughing Fish]

I can't see WB scraping the DCEU in light of the weak box office returns.

The problem is WB keep making dumb decisions, specifically their meddling of nearly all the films post MOS. I still enjoyed JL but I cant deny being a little disappointed over the footage shown in trailers that didn't make the final cut. Not to mention the enormous budget they're working with. To me they're capable of anything.

[The Dark Knight]

Fan reaction should be taken with a grain of salt.

WB don't think the same way, especially when it comes to critics. They go into panic mode. And the money they spend on reshoots is all for nought anyway. They end up with more money they have to make up at the box office and a majority of critics who still hate the movie.

Do you know how good it would be to walk into a movie, knowing the original script was simply filmed and we were watching that? Instead we usually get a hodgepodge Frankenstein monster (especially in the case of SS and JL). The best chance of a Snyder director's cut would be reinstating only some of the scenes because others will clash with the reshoots. Same thing with SS. I'd take that (if WB even do that), but doesn't mean I like it.

The only part of the soundtrack that excited me what when the League put Superman's body into the birthing chamber. We hear a minor snippet of Zimmer's score. Elfman sank in my estimations with his idiotic attitude regarding the B89 and Williams themes. The supposed Junkie XL theme that appeared recently is much better than anything Elfman slapped out. Elfman, you've had your day. You're yesterday's man and Junkie XL/Zimmer are better than you now. If you want to dismiss their music, I will dismiss YOURS. It was average at best. Go away.

I'm sorry, but I'm not sorry. I will turn on this franchise like a snake if they turn on me. Dumb decisions like this show the studio for what they really are. WB wanted a lighter tone. Okay, I accepted that and was on board with that. But going overboard is where I draw the line. Most of these reshoots stuck out like a sore thumb and didn't add anything. "Can you at least tell me the way to Atlantis?" Obvious reshoot and only added because it's a joke. "Something is definitely bleeding." Batman was meant to be lighter, but this is too far. One of the few Batman lines I disliked.

WB keep shooting themselves in the foot when they don't have to.

My enthusiasm can't help but be impacted when this happens.

[phantom stranger]

Overall, I enjoyed it. It was pretty much what I expected.

Like many of you, I loved Man of Steel and was disappointed that it never received a proper sequel. I also think it was a mistake to not do a few more solo films of the other characters prior to the inevitable team-up. Still, I was looking forward to Justice League, a film which I've wanted ever since I was a kid.

Here are my observations:

-- J.K. Simmons' Commissioner Gordon: I know we didn't see much of him but it just didn't work for me. Physically, Affleck is pretty much the BTAS Bruce Wayne brought to life and that's kind of what I want in a Gordon. Bryan Cranston probably would've been a good choice.

-- Henry Cavill's Superman: I think Cavill is the best Superman since Reeve. As an actor, he's got good range and we see more of that in this film. Hopefully, we see more of him in an extended edition.

-- Ezra Miller's Flash: I rather enjoyed his portrayal. He brought just the right amount of humor into the film. If I had to nitpick, I would say that he's not really playing Barry Allen--he's actually Wally West. But then again, for me, only John Wesley Shipp is truly Barry Allen.

-- Affleck's Batman: Unlike the warehouse scene in BVS, or his few scenes in Suicide Squad, he didn't really have any show-stopping moments. The opening rooftop appearance came close. Was it supposed to be an homage to '89?

-- Ray Fisher's Cyborg: Admittedly, I'm not that familiar with Cyborg. Plus,  I've always considered him a member of the Titans, not the Justice League. Still, I found the character interesting and think Fisher was a really good choice.

-- Jason Momoa's Aquaman: It's clear Momoa is very enthusiastic for the character. I just wish he had his solo film come out before Justice League. As it stands, it's hard to judge his character since I don't feel like I really know him.

-- Gal Gadot's Wonder Woman: As always, she's awesome in everything.

-- Ciarán Hinds' Steppenwolf: I think it was a mistake to go with Steppenwolf as the bad guy. He just wasn't that memorable. If you're going to go with an intergalactic baddie, I would've preferred  Darkseid, Braniac, or even the Cyborg Superman (played by Cavill, of course).  But what would've been really great is if they went with someone totally out of left-field: The Key, Prometheus, etc.  If done right, one of those villains could have really gotten people talking.

-- SFX:  I think they went overboard on the CGI at the end of the film. I know all films use it but is it too much to hope for some actual physical sets instead of wall-to-wall green screens?

It's one of the reasons I love the Batmobile scene in Suicide Squad. At least part of that was filmed on an actual street in front of actual buildings.

Story: Overall, I enjoyed the movie, particularly the scenes involving Superman's resurrection (the debate, the fight, etc.) I would've enjoyed it more if it was an adaptation of the Reign of Superman storyline but I knew that was never going to happen. I'm hoping there will be an extended edition of some sort that fleshes out the story a bit more.

[The Laughing Fish]

Overall, I enjoyed it. It was pretty much what I expected.

Glad to hear you enjoyed it.

Like many of you, I loved Man of Steel and was disappointed that it never received a proper sequel. I also think it was a mistake to not do a few more solo films of the other characters prior to the inevitable team-up. Still, I was looking forward to Justice League, a film which I've wanted ever since I was a kid.

In an ideal world, I would've preferred the same thing. But let's face it, the critics and a lot of the audiences are so hyperbolic and fickle, I would expect them to accuse WB of copying the Marvel approach and lacking any original thought. I've seen some BvS detractors slam the film for being too dark, but then say it's a much better film than JL. You can't win these delinquents.

-- J.K. Simmons' Commissioner Gordon: I know we didn't see much of him but it just didn't work for me. Physically, Affleck is pretty much the BTAS Bruce Wayne brought to life and that's kind of what I want in a Gordon. Bryan Cranston probably would've been a good choice.

I thought Simmons was fine. Now of course, he didn't have a lot to do, but he played the part of an old-fashioned Gordon from the comics for me.

-- SFX:  I think they went overboard on the CGI at the end of the film. I know all films use it but is it too much to hope for some actual physical sets instead of wall-to-wall green screens?

Considering the large scale of the action sequence, I don't think the quantity of CGI was overdone at all. Besides, there's no way this sort of movie or the Avengers could've been made twenty odd years ago if they had to rely on physical sets.

Looking at the scene where the team tries to calm Superman down once he returns from the dead, I did appreciate the part where Batman brings in Lois to make Clark come back to his senses. For me, it's a callback to Flash's warning about Lois being the key at the end of the Knightmare sequence in BvS.

[The Dark Knight]

This JL situation has me dejected. The passion for the current business model just isn't there right now.

Apparently Snyder had three hours worth of content.

https://screenrant.com/zack-snyder-justice-league-directors-cut-runtime/

The only crime people like Snyder and myself commit is having TOO MUCH passion. We care about these characters and the world, and we throw ourselves into it 100%. So for this worm to turn so abruptly the other way it really gets me down in the dumps. All that anticipation and excitement becomes a wound.

Characters would've been greatly expanded. Apparently Batman would've been suicidal near the end (drawing the Parademons to himself and rolling the Batmobile), with other heroes convincing him everything is okay now, and he's been redeemed. Stuff like this gives films MEANING and POWER. Instead, characters flit from scene to scene with bare minimum devoted to character growth. So disappointing. As a BvS fan, I think this could be the biggest missed chance in the franchise's history. And it's all just going to sit idle as the 2 hour version is called definitive.

It's a joke and an insult that WB kept the 'directed by Zack Snyder' credit when they ripped a ton of his scenes from the film and reshot a lot of content. This isn't anywhere near the complete, unfiltered vision of the great man.

Talent like Zack is what separated the DCEU from Marvel. But now, there's not much difference. They may as well stick to cartoons because Whedon League is about as deep as that. People made such a big deal about Superman smiling, and when they finally got more of it, they received CGI Mouth Man/Agent Smith.

Where's the equivalent of the BvS warehouse scene? Nothing in JL matches that. Cutting out lots of Snyder content and re-filming certain scenes tipped the balance more in favor of Whedon's sensibilities. As Snyder's son said:



As a result, I've embraced BvS:DOJ, TDK Returns, etc stronger than ever.

[thecolorsblend]

As a result, I've embraced BvS:DOJ, TDK Returns, etc stronger than ever.

This. Once again we seem to be on more or less the same page, old friend.

Look, I enjoyed the movie. It was a rollicking good time. But MOS had some meat on the bone. "Am I ready for the world? *gulp* Is the world ready for me?" Superman is who he's always been. But he experiences a fairly understandable conflict; one which in no way betrays what the character has traditionally been.

BVS had meat on the bone. Probably even more than MOS. Batman was consumed with his own failures and demons. He created an enemy where there wasn't one. And yeah, he ultimately saw the error of his ways. But instead of uniting like they should've, they were nearly destroyed by their true enemy. And Earth was left vulnerable to future threats.

Yeah, JL pays that off. Batman's mission in JL is one of penance. Superman should be the one organizing the League. But obviously he can't. And that's because of Batman. So Batman has taken it upon himself to do the job that needs doing as best he can. But he ultimately discovers he's not Superman. So rather than trying to force himself into being something he's not, Batman decides to make amends by bringing Superman back.

It brings the character fully out of the darkness that had consumed him by the beginning of BVS. Now he's truly poised to become his greatest self.

But we get only hints of that. As others have said, character development that should've used up a few more minutes was compressed. Maybe an extended cut can correct that stuff and give the characters more space to breathe. But maybe not.

The characters come together as a group barely with justification and then stick together even though by all rights they shouldn't be able to. Superman could've unified them but his absence means something else has to be the team's glue. And there isn't anything.

Speaking of Superman, he's barely a character in the movie. He's a weapon for the good guys and a convenient mechanism for cleaning up the mess they made. But he doesn't really have many character moments.

This does reinforce my view that Superman works well as a supporting character. That requires very little effort of any writer. When it's time to wrap things up, send Superman in there to do it. But characterizing and humanizing him takes effort and that never happens in JL.

There are ton of humorous moments though. Clearly WB heard their complaints on that. But why should they have? Clearly it made no difference in terms of the way "the fans" have responded.

Elfman. The elements of the score that were audible over the barrage of sound effects and dialogue were mostly lackluster and uninspired.

Honestly, I don't hate this movie. But MOS had my full attention during the premiere and thereafter. BVS, Ibid. I'm nowhere near as invested in JL. Yeah, Superman smiled. Whoopty freaking doo.

I want Affleck to stay on as Batman. And I want his eventual Batman movie to matter. But the way that it is right now... I dunno. I'm feeling a little deflated here, y'all. We went from Serious Cinema to Silly Marvel seemingly overnight. I don't think this will be a change for the better.