Justice League - ***SPOILER TALK***

[Grissom]

You can discuss every spoiler, moment, scene, line etc from Justice League in this thread:

Fire away!

What did you guys think about the post credit scenes?

[The Dark Knight]

I got to see the movie.

Look....I gotta be real because you know I'm real. Justice League is not a bad movie, it's just not spectacular and I feel like it could've been better.

Here's my main gripes. The two hour length. The scene transitions are rather abrupt and there needed to be more room for everything to breathe and develop. What bugs me is how they've cut scenes short or omitted them completely. Small stuff like Bruce driving away with Barry in the Mercedes. I just really hope they release these scenes in an extended cut. They must have really wanted the Theatrical Cut to be two hours.

I liked Superman's portrayal for the most part. Let's unpack what we're given:

He turns his head while Flash is in the Speed Force. So he's as fast as The Flash or very comparable. He's punches Steppenwolf and the other heroes around like they're twigs (and puts Batman in his place). He uses freeze breath for the first time. He shoots heat vision and flies away with an apartment building. He does the shirt rip.However I can't shake the feeling his content is too minor and lacking significance somehow. No Zimmer Superman theme is used either. Only the DNA motif in the birthing chamber.

The manner in which he is resurrected is okay (it's one of the film's better scenes), but again, I feel like this plotline could've been even better, and I actually suspect Snyder had something else in mind before the studio intervened. What we actually get is safe and bland. They gloss over it too. Oh well.

There's no reaction from the world in regards to Superman's resurrection. Nothing about how Clark (in his reporter outfit) could walk back into the Daily Planet even though he's meant to be dead - though I GUESS that still could be addressed in a future film. I think these things should have been touched upon and I think we deserved that. Justice League is too breezy for its own good at times.

I suspect the hole in Clark's chest healed when the Mother Box hit the water...but I'm just guessing. The Kent Farm is up for sale and Bruce saves it by buying the bank. That's nice and pure Bruce Wayne...but I didn't really feel anything. Things just sort of happen in the movie, if that makes sense.

I also couldn't ignore the CGI mouth they gave Superman because of the moustache saga. Once you pick up on it, it's hard for it not to be distracting. It sounds like I'm being petty and I wish I was. But that's just how I feel at the moment.

Apart from these things, I still managed to like parts of the movie. Gal Gadot as Wonder Woman is simply amazing. I think she's the best character in the film and indeed the whole DCEU. Batfleck is still solid. Batman fans should be pretty happy with his portrayal here - he's still the leader as far as I'm concerned. I'll say more about him later at some point. This post is mainly about my general feelings - what didn't sit well with me.

The jokes were okay, but some don't stick and shouldn't have been made. Steppenwolf is better than those Suicide Squad villains (not very difficult) but he doesn't compare to Zod or Lex. I actually don't think he's awful. He has some good lines here and there. Steppenwolf isn't really a deep character to begin with. He arrives at a world and starts swinging his axe. But again, I feel like things could've been better.

I'd probably give the film a 6/10 or something at the moment. It's a bit like Quantum of Solace following Casino Royale. Justice League is better than Suicide Squad but for me, it doesn't reach the heights of MoS, BvS or WW - and my passion for it just isn't the same. Again, I think an extended cut would help the film out. I just really hope we get one. There's definitely additional material there.

[Travesty]

Overall, I liked it quite a bit. It was what I was expecting: a lighter tone, lots of character/team moments, and a lot of action. I knew we weren't getting another MOS or BvS, so I wasn't expecting the same tone. A lot of the jokes worked for me, and the audience I saw it with. I want to see more from Flash and Cyborg, and I hope Affleck sticks around, cause he was great in this. Again, I really liked it.

As for the CGI complaints, I didn't really care that much. Steppenwolf looked fine enough. If I can pass The Hulk in the MCU, I can easily pass Steppenwolf. Is he an obvious CG character? Yes, but again, I can easily suspend my disbelief already for The Hulk, and he basically looks like a cartoon compared to the live actors next to him. As far as Superman's lip goes, I didn't notice it at all, until the mid-credit scene. That was it, and I was looking hard for it. So him in the movie was unnoticeable for me. But yes, in the mid-credits, it was apparent.

[The Dark Knight]

I'm seeing it again on the weekend with a bunch of friends, so I'll see how I like it after a second time.

But I'm about Batman, and as said, I liked his portrayal here.

The opening scene with the criminal and the parademon? Top stuff. He's depicted as an athletic detective who interrogates people just like the Arkham games, and doesn't back away from explosions (very similar to Arkham Batman when he uses explosive gel).

We see him use the grappling gun several times to move around, which I appreciated.

But what I REALLY liked about this Batman was how he was realistically portrayed in battle without losing any of his masculinity. For example, Batman battles a big parademon (any human is going to struggle against one of these), and he calls in the Nightcrawler. He shoots them up, but the vehicle is soon attacked, not fatally - but nearly. Batman has tricks up his sleeve, but they're not going to be completely devastating to these enemies. But he does fight back and these tools do get him through encounters. The brief sequence of the Nightcrawler taking the heroes up the wall, in order to escape the flood, was really good, and reminded me of Batman Forever. Batman saves the heroes and they survive, even if they didn't win either.

I liked how we saw the Nightcrawler back in the batcave, suggesting it was being repaired after the battle.

Same thing with the Flying Fox in the final battle. Batman shoots his missiles to disable the shield, and shortly after the ship crashes. But he basically planned for that, given he immediately drives out the back ramp in the Batmobile. He's creative and selfless, as shown when he broadcasting the parademon signal to himself to draw them away from the other League members. He's always moving forward despite setbacks. For example, the Batmobile eventually falls off a cliff, but Batman uses a rocket ejector seat and keeps fighting while in midair. Batman is about using all of your available resources to survive and still get the job done...despite the odds.

Bruce buys the bank to save Clark's home. Top stuff. I'm not sure if Bruce gave Barry the reference for the job, but I'm thinking he did. Which is again a nice touch. I noticed that when he's talking to Diana outside the lakehouse he's wearing a coat similar to something he wore in TDK Returns, too.

Superman may have dominated Batman after he was resurrected (obviously), but Bruce did have his backup plan in Lois to defuse the situation. So that's where the prep time angle comes into play. One or two lines were iffy, but for the most part I thought his dialogue was okay.

My beef mostly lies with the editing, the runtime and the moustache issue. I can't really fault Affleck or the portrayal at all.

[GoNerdYourself]

So I liked it but I had problems with it. Mainly, I could sense where the movie was missing something and where stuff was patched in. Right from the start actually. It felt like things were moved around for the opening. There's the video footage of Superman and following that we get a great scene with Batman before reaching the main title sequence. I really liked the scene with Batman, but I don't think the three sequences work well together and it definitely seems like there was some sort of shifting.  The scene with Superman was definitely a late minute pickup, as the CGI upper lip is very obvious, and I think this scene, or at least a better version of this scene, could have worked had it led into the Superman-centric main title sequence and then I think the Batman scene should have followed, perhaps after Wonder Woman's introduction? I'm not sure.

Overall, editorially speaking, the flow was rather inconsistent, for which The Dark Knight detailed the abrupt and awkward transitions in his post.

I kept thinking about what Snyder's true version of this film would have been. The Knightmare scene from BvS comes to mind. Clearly, that scene wasn't meant to be a dream. Whether or not that will still play a part is beyond me, but if I had to guess, this film was supposed to address it, not a later film.

The climactic battle felt like it was missing something, but I really enjoyed the bumper at the end with Deathstroke and Lex.

Am I the only one who felt something was off during the scene with Lois and Clark in the field? Cavill's performance seemed different to me, and not just from the other two films, but from the rest of the film, as well. I kinda felt like something is also missing from his re-introduction, perhaps a bit more time with him adjusting? A part of me even wondered how much of Superman's scenes during the final battle were either added or changed, perhaps to give us the Superman people said they wanted but will probably trash too.

Either way, there seems to be at least two different visions for this film, but neither are fully realized, just cobbled together to form an incomplete thought. I liked this movie, I swear I did.

[The Dark Knight]

I liked this movie, I swear I did.

I know what you mean. I walked out of the cinema feeling conflicted, not really knowing how to feel. It's good, but should've been way better. That's all I can really say. WB really need to stop screwing around in the editing bay.

[The Laughing Fish]

I saw JL today. Despite my disappointment over a lot of the footage and dialogue we saw and heard in the trailers didn't feature in the final cut, and the lack of the world's reaction and follow-up to Superman's return from the dead, I can put all of that aside and say it was still an enjoyable film to watch. It felt like a DC Universe Animated Original movie coming to life, and I thought it totally celebrated all of the JL heroes.

I really appreciated Batman's redemption arc that started in the last half hour of BvS coming to full circle here, as he plans to use the Mother Box to revive Superman, and even showed that enormous leap of faith in Clark. A far cry from his paranoid, cynical self we saw in the beginning of BvS. I thought the character development was complete as he helps buy the Kent farm back from foreclosure, and looks to restore Wayne Manor.

As for the CGI surrounding Cavill's face? I noticed a bit of it, but it didn't bother me. After all, I've seen other movies with very fake-looking CGI but they don't necessarily break it for me. For example, the CGI for Tarkin and Leia's faces in Rogue One didn't look real at all. But it didn't stop me from enjoying Rogue One.

I've some stupid misguided feminists/critics complaining about the supposed sexism in JL. For example, the Amazon costumes were allegedly more skimpy than the Wonder Woman film. That is utter bullsh*t. The costumes were no more revealing nor did the film objectify any of the women at all. Another example is some people are up in arms about the Flash falling on top of Wonder Woman, and immediately got up as if there was some awkward moment of sexual innuendo. I say that's innocent compared to Drax's arguably sexist and degrading treatment of Mantis in GOTG2, but I didn't see the critics didn't notice or care about that, now did they? Seriously, their hatred for Zack Snyder is even more toxic than my distaste for Chris Nolan's films. They just appear to hate Snyder as a human being, call him a sexist...and yet, they appear to be silent when someone like Devin Faraci and Andy Signore are guilty of sexually harassing women. Figures.

[The Laughing Fish]

Here is a compilation of all the trailer footage that was deleted from the final cut.

[Travesty]

Wow, I just looked around on a few sites and forums, and the hate this movie is getting is probably worse than BvS. It's out of control. And I can't tell you how many reviews have used the phrase "male gaze", as a huge form of criticism of the movie, and somehow trying to say Snyder is a sexist. Normally, I don't give a sh*t about critics, but what I'm seeing is like nothing else. It's just....odd.

And then there's this review by Mark Kermode. He even said, "This is the kind of film which, by comparison, Joel Schumacher's Batman & Robin is a masterclass in coherence, in character development, in razor sharp storytelling". If that's not the definition of "hyperbole", I don't know what is.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?time_continue=15&v=hsLcTO2a0Ec

[GoNerdYourself]

And then there's this review by Mark Kermode. He even said, "This is the kind of film which, by comparison, Joel Schumacher's Batman & Robin is a masterclass in coherence, in character development, in razor sharp storytelling". If that's not the definition of "hyperbole", I don't know what is.

That is beyond exaggeration. I think the film for me falls on the same level as Batman Forever and Superman II. It has a lot of issues, but is still worth watching. People trying to play this up as a complete train wreck either haven't seen a real train wreck (Jaws the Revenge, Troll 2, King Kong Lives, The Room, Birdemic) or are just riding the hype train (next stop something else) or both, probably both. (Although, personally, I think most of the Transformer movies make B&R look like Citizen Kane, but even that's hyperbole.)