JRR Tolkien Discussion

[Silver Nemesis]

What annoys me is that they're marketing this as Tolkien. It isn't Tolkien. Tolkien died in 1973 and this is not his story. He wrote his own account of the Second Age, and this isn't it. The Rings of Power is original fan fiction written by people in Hollywood who bought the rights to use certain character names from the appendices of one of Tolkien's books. It's no more canonical to Tolkien's legendarium than Castlevania is to Bram Stoker's writing, or Herman Munster is to Mary Shelley's.

We've now reached the predictable stage of the 'unpopular reboot playbook' where the studio and media smear the fan base as bigots. We just need a cast member to make a big show of quitting social media to complete the victim narrative.

Meanwhile, Amazon has altered its rating system in response to the flood of negative scores. https://www.hollywoodreporter.com/tv/tv-news/lord-of-the-rings-the-rings-of-power-amazon-review-bombed-1235211190/

I don't know if this is true, but some sources are claiming that the IMDb, which is owned by Amazon, is also fudging the audience ratings. Meanwhile on Rotten Tomatoes and Metacritic:

One of two things is happening here. Either fans love the show and it really is just a tiny minority of racist trolls using bots to tank the audience scores, in which case Amazon has nothing to worry about. Or Amazon has antagonised the core Tolkien fan base and is merely exacerbating matters by labelling them as racists instead of addressing their real concerns, in which case the studio has forfeited the support of the target demographic and will likely lose monumental sums of money.

To echo what others have already said – if you love Tolkien's creation, then stick with the books. If you want to see that world brought to life on the screen, then watch Jackson's TLOTR film trilogy. That's all you need.

[Silver Nemesis]

[thecolorsblend]

Something that infuriates me is that when audiences express a negative opinion about something, it's "review bombing".

But when professional critics express a negative opinion about something, they're just doing their job.

It's almost like consumers are expected to lap up whatever nonsense Hollywood sees fit to dole out to them and take it without any amount of critical thought. It's insulting, frankly.

The fact is that there aren't enough racists in the entire world to account for the high number of negative reviews The Rings Of Power has received. The great majority of negative audience reviews can only be from the heart.

But, in an effort to find something to be positive about, the production design for TROP (as I've seen it in trailers and other previews; I have precisely zero intention of ever watching this show) legit does appear to be second to none. Obviously, even the greatest production design in the world can't overcome bad writing, weak characters, a boring story or whatever else. But credit where it's due, it looks like somebody involved in the process spared no effort in the art/production design of the show.

Something else that's positive is that Amazon is creating a space for people to reevaluate Jackson's Hobbit films. Maybe they're not perfect. Maybe Jackson needed another year of preproduction. Maybe there should only have been two films rather than three.

But compared to TROP, The Hobbit trilogy is looking pretty legit to a lot of people these days. And speaking of production design, The Hobbit trilogy is criminally underrated on that subject.

[The Dark Knight]

Spot on. Look at the butchery of the Little Mermaid.



Nothing is off limits and it's the same result every time. People don't like what The System is pushing and when that happens the customary defence measures are activated.

TROP is more interested in pushing wokeness than respecting the true spirit of Tolkien, and when the obvious is pointed out the fan becomes the bad guy and a racist by default. Which is now being pushed by original Jackson cast members, who only serve to disgrace themselves by effectively calling many of their own fans racist. If I had any respect for those individuals as people it's now gone. They are going to war against genuine fans who hold genuine passion for their franchise of choice. As a monarch once said, grief is the price we pay for love. These are not trolls relishing the act of critiquing TROP. Their criticisms are real, and in my opinion hold a lot more value than compromised critics who lean left. To dismiss and label them is to keep repeating the same cycle. But it's a cycle that doesn't seem to be stopping as The Powers That Be want entertainment on their terms, and the entertainment itself is incidental to their all important themes.

Recent events have confirmed to me that tradition is important, and in a world that celebrates 'burning it all down' I support preserving what is left.

[thecolorsblend]

http://variety.com/2017/tv/news/lord-of-the-rings-amazon-1202606519

"Talks" are happening. So let's not make this into more than it is. But if this is happening... I dunno. I mean, I'm going through a major time Tolkien fixation at the moment. Been reading his stuff, watched some of the movies, even tracked down a couple of fan films.

My concern, though, is that Hollywood (of which Amazon is technically a part at this point) always makes sure to insert certain ideas or concepts into their movies and shows, especially lately. The LOTR movies were lucky enough to escape that because they were made before that obnoxious stuff became all but official policy. But any new Tolkien project is likely to include at least two or three of the things that make modern Hollywood suck.

So I'm hopeful... but also a little fearful.

I wrote that on November 04, 2017. So, basically five years ago.

Amazon had five years to create a show which honored Tolkien's writings and his style, stayed faithful to the spirit of his work if not necessarily the exact letter of it and crafted something that would remind the world why we all fell in love with Tolkien's writings so long ago.

Five years and one billion dollars later, all we've got to show for ourselves is TROP.

Also, this thread's first page is precognitive.

[thecolorsblend]

Something else.

I'm a huge fan of Howard Shore's film scores for the LOTR trilogy. He devised over 100 themes/leitmotifs for those three films. For as much credit as Jackson, Walsh and Boyens deserve for bringing that world to life, the truth is that those movies would be a shadow of themselves without Shore's contributions.

When you instantly know that the narrative is taking place in Mordor, the Shire, Rivendell, Isengard, Lothlorien, Gondor, Rohan or wherever else based exclusively on the music, you know the film score is in a whole other category of quality and craftsmanship.

Simply stunning.

[thecolorsblend]

I want to revisit two points.

I'm prepared to say that The Hobbit films are overdue for a reappraisal.

In light of The Rings Of Power, I find that people are starting to take another look at The Hobbit trilogy. Again, they're not perfect. But they're looking more and more legit all the time with the benefit of comparison. And...

But if The Hobbit films are still found wanting, well, there's always the Maple Films Edit of the trilogy to condense it all down into a more comprehensible narrative.

This fan edit is four hours long. But it does address many common criticisms of the official films. Plus, the investigation of Dol Guldur and the related material has been separated into its own little hour long "mini movie" that proves (for me, if nobody else) that those scenes with Gandalf, the council and so forth have genuine merit to them. Maybe the context of a Hobbit adaptation is wrong for this story. But it's still a story worth telling, if you ask me.

And The Maple Films Edit is the best of both worlds, honestly.

[thecolorsblend]

Jackson, Walsh, Boyens and Serkis are coming back to the Middle-earth!

This could be awesome. It's not guaranteed. But if nothing else, they now have a template to work from. TROP is a very good example of how NOT to handle things.

I'm optimistic about this, frankly. I might end up eating my words later on. But I think there's a lot of potential with this.

[The Dark Knight]

Feels like it could be absolutely scraping the barrel but it could also end up being good. Do Viggo and Ian come back, in a deaged function? If it's set before/during Fellowship it makes me wonder how they stretch out another trilogy.

[thecolorsblend]

I would imagine that the principal cast will consist of Serkis, Mortensen and McKellan.

Tyler and Weaving might be tougher. Tyler because she's looking a little matronly these days. And Weaving because I swear to think he announced his retirement from Hollywood. Then again, they're such obvious candidates for inclusion that I find it hard to imagine that the movie trilogy gets announced before they have the main cast locked up. I always got the idea that Weaving had a special affection for Elrond. But maybe I'm wrong.

Lee's passing will certainly complicate matters. I'm not super comfortable with the idea of using CGI to copy him and AI to give him a voice. But if you're going to include Saruman in the movies, then I don't know what the alternative is. Because recasting the character is out of the question in my mind. So, either you use technological trickery to digitally resurrect Lee or else you write the Saruman character out entirely. But I'm unable to see a third choice.

As to what material you could adapt into a film, there's some stuff going on in Appendix B/The Tale Of Years. Tolkien provided some technical details. I would like to think that writers of Jackson, Boyens and Walsh's caliber can craft something using these items. Plus, they've got lead time with this that they didn't have with The Hobbit. So, right there, I think this trilogy is already off to a good start. There's no need to rush the films through production to meet a release date.

2980
Aragorn enters Lórien, and there meets again Arwen Undómiel. Aragorn gives her the ring of Barahir, and they plight their troth upon the hill of Cerin Amroth. About this time Gollum reaches the confines of Mordor and becomes acquainted with Shelob. Théoden becomes King of Rohan. Birth of Samwise.

3000
The shadow of Mordor lengthens. Saruman dares to use the palantír of Orthanc, but becomes ensnared by Sauron, who has the Ithil-stone. He becomes a traitor to the Council. His spies report that the Shire is being closely guarded by the Rangers.

3009
Gandalf and Aragorn renew their hunt for Gollum at intervals during the next eight years, searching in the vales of Anduin, Mirkwood, and Rhovanion to the confines of Mordor. At some time during these years Gollum himself ventured into Mordor, and was captured by Sauron. Elrond sends for Arwen, and she returns to Imladris; the Mountains and all lands eastward are becoming dangerous.

3017
Gollum is released from Mordor. He is taken by Aragorn in the Dead Marshes, and brought to Thranduil in Mirkwood. Gandalf visits Minas Tirith and reads the scroll of Isildur.

I'm calling it now. If this trilogy actually gets made, then I'm betting one of the movies will be titled The Shadow Of Mordor (or something similar).

I'm pretty optimistic about this. A lot more optimistic than I ever was about TROP.