"What writers should learn from Christopher Nolan" video

[The Laughing Fish]

I checked out this YouTube channel which analysed what's wrong with the Marvel Cinematic Universe's use of comedy at inappropriate moments - aka bathos - recently titled "What Writers Should Learn From Wonder Woman". If you haven't seen it, check it out, it's a pretty good analysis of what's wrong with Marvel's films right now.

Now as you might have guessed, I wasn't referring to that video in the thread's title. I was referring to this video praising Nolan for his story structure in BB, while taking shades at BvS.

The problem with this guy's analysis here is he seemed to be tricked by the movie's lip service in its supposed themes in altruism and morality. The part where he summarises Batman story throughout the movie with a "yadda yadda yadda" at the end appears to dodge over the fact that the Batman had killed Ra's al Ghul despite the whole stance about "killing = wrong", as well as glossing over Bruce causing the temple's destruction. You can talk about plot structure all you want, but it counts very little if your characters are badly written. But apparently, this is good writing.

I think one of the biggest problems in BB is it doesn't explore Bruce Wayne's desire to become a inspirational symbol. It would've far more interesting and exciting to see Batman's first night out stopping random crime, similar to how he comes back from his ten year absence in Frank Miller's Dark Knight Returns. That way, we could've seen how his presence is felt all over the city, instead of only seeing the reaction from Rachel and the GCPD.

On a final note, this guy is not doing himself any favours by jumping on the bandwagon by dismissing people's reaction to Superman in BvS as having no real purpose and not building a real theme. It explored what Jonathan Kent had forewarned in MOS, and the sequel built upon that.

[title edited - Paul]

[Dagenspear]

Why did you watch this video, knowing you'd mainly disagree with it, only to belittle the person who made it? Have a very great day!

God bless you all!

[Paul (ral)]

The title of this thread has been edited as it was felt it was a little derogatory to the author of the video.

Personally I enjoy and respect the Just Write channel and find a lot of merit in their analysis - even when it doesn't fit my fandon. 

[The Laughing Fish]

Personally I enjoy and respect the Just Write channel and find a lot of merit in their analysis - even when it doesn't fit my fandon.

I'm afraid you have missed the point then. My dismissal of this video was to emphasise how the analysis completely ignores BB's own glaring script problems, despite favourably comparing it to BvS. BvS isn't perfect by any means, but anybody who says there's no coherent themes in that movie simply hasn't paid any attention. Just as they didn't pay attention to the contradictory things in BB.

As for changing the video title - very well. It's your forum after all.

[thecolorsblend]

I rather enjoyed the video's commentary on the structural elements of Batman Begins. It brings out what each of the major characters brings to the table. Now, we can debate how well Nolan articulated those philosophies or how consistently they're portrayed in the narrative.

The objective of those videos is apparently teaching people how to be better writers. So pointing to examples like Batman Begins (which most people have seen and are familiar with) is a clever way of showing how to do things.

Showing how not to do things while also using Batman Begins as the subject is probably out of scope for what that video series wants to achieve.

[The Laughing Fish]

What makes me take Just Write much less seriously is this video below, where he responds to criticism he got over his positive review and analysis of The Last Jedi, titled "Why We Can't Agree About The Last Jedi (Or Art In General)".

Regardless whether you love or hate TLJ, this video annoys me because the gist of his argument goes from condescendingly telling his viewers that it's fine to dislike something but try to understand the context of what you're watching, to using literary theories to defend his interpretation of the film. It's all over the place. If context is important, then he should follow his own advice and have another look at BvS. Nonetheless, if Just Write is saying art is up to interpretation, then why should anybody listen to him for writing advice? MCU fans can dismiss his criticism of the overuse of comedy and say the jokes aren't done for cheap laughs, but rather, they interpret the characters making these quips because that's their coping mechanism during a stressful situation.

But if that's not enough, Just Write appeared on a live debate with two obnoxious YouTube movie reviewers - The Dishonoured Wolf and MauLer - about his TLJ video, and they asked him how he did go so scathing and critical in his earlier videos - specifically The Hobbit trilogy - to justifying his praise for this Star Wars movie. Long story short, he said that watching more movies made him "evolve" from his early days and doesn't like to dwell on pointing out the negative in movies if they hurt one's enjoyment of something. Well, if he truly "evolved", he should really delete all his videos criticising movies he didn't like. Don't go portraying your critique of something as objective fact and try to give advice to anybody on writing, if deep down you think art it's all subjective. It's that sort of inconsistency that kills a person's credibility for me.

[thecolorsblend]

Regardless whether you love or hate TLJ, this video annoys me because the gist of his argument goes from condescendingly telling his viewers that it's fine to dislike something but try to understand the context of what you're watching, to using literary theories to defend his interpretation of the film

I haven't watched the video (because if I don't intend to watch TLJ, I certainly won't watch a defense of it) but I don't see a contradiction in what you say he does here.

Appreciation of art is purely subjective that much is undeniable. I can defend Rocky III all day long... although that seems to be less necessary in today's world.

If he enjoys TLJ (for whatever reason), I don't see the problem with using literary theory to justify it. I've done similar things with films I enjoy. In fact, we've probably all touched upon that very thing for our enjoyment of BVS.

YouTubers produce content. It's asking a bit much for them to update or even delete their old content as their knowledge, understanding and appreciation for things change and evolve. For one thing, it retroactively changes their past, which is a dishonest thing to do to their audiences. For two things, it creates a virtually never-ending stream of work to "correct" things that nobody is really all that bothered about in the first place.

[The Laughing Fish]

If he enjoys TLJ (for whatever reason), I don't see the problem with using literary theory to justify it. I've done similar things with films I enjoy. In fact, we've probably all touched upon that very thing for our enjoyment of BVS.

That's true, but the difference is, none of us are getting paid through Patreon to voice our opinions or explain our interpretations. Just Write, on the other hand, intended his channel to be educational, according to his LinkedIn profile. Not a review channel. Sure, I'm not saying he can't use his own interpretation to analyse something, but the problem is he appears to have a habit of conveniently leaving out information of scenes - or misrepresenting them altogether - to make his videos work. The subject on comparing BB with BvS isn't the only time. He does it a fair bit of that in his praise for the TLJ. Yes, you're right to say we've all used our interpretation in our praise and enjoyment in something, but I get very suspicious when somebody has to ignore certain issues within a story to make their argument work. Particularly if they're giving advice about what constitutes good and bad writing.

YouTubers produce content. It's asking a bit much for them to update or even delete their old content as their knowledge, understanding and appreciation for things change and evolve. For one thing, it retroactively changes their past, which is a dishonest thing to do to their audiences. For two things, it creates a virtually never-ending stream of work to "correct" things that nobody is really all that bothered about in the first place.

I beg to differ. Just Write gets monetised for the videos he produces. I reckon it's dishonest for him to say he'd be disheartened if his "Hobbit sucks" videos could ruin somebody else's enjoyment of that trilogy, as he said in that livestream with those two other YouTubers, as you can hear in the video below on 2:55:50. While on the topic objectivity vs. subjectivity, MauLer mentioned he was planning to debate a friend over why Iron Man 3 is a bad film, and Just Write argued "if you manage to convince your friend Iron Man 3 is no good, then that's a loss, because you've reduced the amount of enjoyment in the world. That sucks". But he's happy to gain revenue from his negative video essays about The Hobbit? Sorry, but that doesn't seem right to me.

But let's forget about the monetisation for a moment. If Just Write's goal as a YouTube channel is to be educational and give advice about what you should do and shouldn't do when writing a story, then isn't spoiling one's enjoyment of something flawed a natural part of the teaching process? What's the point of his channel if he critcises works for not living to his interpretive criteria, but doesn't want to discourage people from possibly taking their enjoyment away?

At the end of the day, I don't have to watch his channel and I'm certainly not interested in watching any more of his video essays. He doesn't seem he can make his mind up about what his channel is supposed to be, and overlooks flaws in Nolan's writing that easily would've been condemned if it was a Snyder movie, so I don't see much value in what he has to say.