Marvel Going Back To "Meat And Potatoes"

[The Joker]

Both companies choosing to focus their production and cater to the direct market has been a MAJOR problem in of itself for decades. 

American comics have always been a business first, and it has always been about the bottom line before all else. However, the way of reaching that desirable bottom line has changed. And that's when OVEREXPOSURE with quantity becomes a real danger.

If we're talking about the ills that have plagued the industry itself for decades, and not just lackluster creative decisions/political agendas, I see it in a different light. Both Companies have thoroughly (and in some cases deliberately!) demolished the support structure which once allowed comics of all kinds to flourish. And thus, it's all about the Direct Sales Market. If we're talking comics themselves, the DSM is their bread and butter, and all due to their very own doing. If this is the line of thinking within the industry, and I don't see any reason why it wouldn't be, then this practically protects the dramatically narrowed production the industry actually chose to go with, from any attempt to return things, even in part, to how they were. Even assuming that were even remotely possible.

[johnnygobbs]

UK's Newsnight programme just did a feature on this.

It appears that although the reported sales of these more 'diverse' Marvel comics have been poor, one of the major reasons why this may be the case is that only pre-order sales are tallied.  Not 'off-the-shelf' sales, made by more casual (i.e. non 'fanboy/fangirl') readers, who simply pick up the latest copy from their nearest comic-store or local newsagent.  Thus, as it stands, only longstanding (and presumably for a large part 'straight white male') comic-book readers who pre-order comics, are being recorded in comic-book sales.

But I also hope that we get more genuinely original 'diverse' (i.e. BME, LGBT, Muslim/Jewish, disabled, and female) superheroes rather than ones that are simply variations on existing white male ones, like Thor and Iron Man.  I think many people are interested in stories featuring a more diverse array of characters, but as with last year's Ghostbusters, which simply changed the characters' genders and added little else fresh or exciting to the mix, audiences/readers don't want to be patronised.  Originality and quality are essential, and diversity, though important, is not a substitute for these even if it can certainly facilitate them.

[thecolorsblend]

No matter what Marvel do next, we all know where they stand. They were loud and outed themselves.

I'm circling back to this.

I don't remember too many Marvel creators going on rampages against people with different opinions from them. Maybe (hell, probably!) it's happened and I just forgot about it because so many others have done the same.

But I do find your sentiment to be true of others. Time was I had a lot of respect for Michael Shannon. I admired his work in Boardwalk Empire and I thought he was an extraordinarily effective Zod. His other work that I've seen is likewise top notch.

But then the 2016 election happened. And look, I can appreciate that emotions were running high. I know that many on the left are throwing tantrums even now. But the overall tenor of things really has changed since the election. The chaos of it all seems to have subsided now. But it was still pretty fresh when Shannon gave that infamous interview.

Still, even giving him the benefit of every possible doubt, his comments were over the line. As I've said before, criticizing politicians (or candidates) is one thing. They are public figures and in many ways they've walked into the crossfire by announcing their candidacies. They are fair game... President Trump included.

Going nuclear on the voters though... that's out of order. Shannon had no right to do that. And the thing is, he said what he meant and he meant what he said. Yes, tensions were high. But that doesn't excuse what he said.

He can apologize and I suppose I'm obligated to forgive him. But the reality is he said what he truly believes. An apology at this point is basically Shannon asking for mercy so his next movie doesn't get destroyed at the box office.

Whedon, Shannon, so many people really have crossed that line. And it's not really a fine line either. Attacking the President's policies and attacking his voters personally are miles and miles apart with a huge wall and giant flashing lights between them. Any idiot could've made the distinction.

But so many have chosen not to and there's no going back for any of them now.

[johnnygobbs]

When I saw Michael Shannon's 'time for the urn' comments in print, I was outraged.  Even as a Trump-hater and staunch liberal I find that attacking voters, especially in such nasty, mean-spirited terms, is completely beyond the pale, as you rightly pointed out colors.  And whilst I may not agree with the conclusions those Trump voters came to, I actually have a lot of sympathy with many of them.  It's clear to me, even as an Obama supporter, that the current political climate, whether we call it neoliberalism, globalisation, or something else, is not working for many people (even, dare I say, myself), that those people feel left behind, and, thus, something needs to give (I'm just extremely doubtful that Trump, and Brexit, here in the UK, is the right response...but that's besides the point in this instance).

So, on the face of things Shannon's comments with particular respect to older Trump supporters strike me as pretty unforgivable.  That said, where I am potentially inclined to give Shannon some leeway is that, having seen a lengthy YouTube Shannon interview and from various things I've read, it is also clear that he does have a very wicked and dark sense of humour, and what may come across as hateful in print may actually have simply been, in reality, a throwaway joke, albeit one that I still find to be in poor taste and not to my liking.

[The Joker]

http://www.cbr.com/marvel-terminates-x-men-gold-artist-ardian-syaf-contract-following-controversy/

Hope the thrill was worth it, dude.

[thecolorsblend]

http://www.cbr.com/marvel-terminates-x-men-gold-artist-ardian-syaf-contract-following-controversy/

Hope the thrill was worth it, dude.

Originally I wrote that I thought the only thing Syaf's drawn that I've read was Superman- Earth One vol. 3... and even there, I lamented the fact that Shane Davis didn't do the art. But checking out the guy's bibliography, I've seen a ton of the guy's art. Huh, weird.

The real pisser though is when people pick apart all your art and start imposing meaning or intent where you didn't necessarily mean anything. That thing with Kitty Pryde's head being placed so closely to the word "jewelry" could go either way. Maybe he meant something vague about Kitty there... or maybe not. But I don't think anybody will believe him now if he denies it.

But hey, you play with matches and you get burned. Sucks to be you, Syaf. Maybe Chuck Austen needs a penciller for something.

[Silver Nemesis]

http://www.cbr.com/marvel-terminates-x-men-gold-artist-ardian-syaf-contract-following-controversy/

Hope the thrill was worth it, dude.

When you think of all the talented artists looking for a chance to break into the comic industry, and then you have this guy – granted the opportunity to draw some of the most iconic comic book characters of all time and work for both Marvel and DC – and he needlessly throws it all away... What a waste.

[The Laughing Fish]

Ever since this thread has started, there has been an increase of YouTube channels criticising comics companies for using their products as propaganda pieces for SJW/progressive agendas, as well as calling out people in the industry for acting unprofessionally on social media. The online movement has been dubbed 'Comicsgate'. Some of the channels I've seen include Diversity and Comics and ComicArtistPro Secrets (run by Ethan Van Sciver).

Here is a video by somebody describing what is the purpose of the Comicsgate movement, dated last November.

While that video seems genuine, I have to say the more I look at Diversity and Comics and Ethan Van Sciver's videos, the more I'm convinced they're provoking their detractors on purpose because they know they'll overreact. They may have a point, but their methods do come across as trolling.

There's also this controversy where Mark Waid had influenced a publisher's decision to not support D&C's independent comic. Which is pretty sh*tty of Waid to do, but I'm not too surprised judging by what I've seen of his online behaviour in the past.

Source: https://medium.com/@charlesrobertrodriguez/pr-disasters-comic-book-pros-are-not-professional-3a47b7eb78bc

[thecolorsblend]

The bit with Waid really grinds my gears. He's written a bunch of comics that I really love. But (A) he's a nipple of a human being on a personal level and (2) this "industry" deserves to implode. Or it retroactively deserves the implosion it underwent back in 1993. Take your pick on that, I guess.

Back in the 70's, nobody had to tell Cary Bates and Curt Swan to leave politics out of their Superman stories. Back then, it was considered rude to bring up politics in nearly any situation. Today, the comics biz is run by a bunch of self-righteous, virtue-signalling gropers, drug addicts and degenerates. And apparently nobody told those losers that it's probably best to keep their pedestrian opinions to themselves.

If there's one thing comics historically suck at doing, it's sensitive social commentary. If you don't believe me, Google I Am Curious (Black).

Chuck Dixon, Graham Nolan and others have suggested that they've been blacklisted by the big companies because of their right-of-center political views. They're basically Romneyesque in their ideology. Especially in 2018, that shouldn't be too upsetting for anybody.

In Dixon's case, he was fired from a comic which was selling pretty well (in today's joke of a market) and overall there shouldn't have been any reason to complain.

NB4 two sides to every story, I get that but my point is that when numerous creators are shown the door for no obvious reason and the one thing they seem to have in common is their vaguely conservative views, it's time to get suspicious.

As it stands, I'm hoping Marvel gets sued into (another) bankruptcy because of Waid's actions. I realize the guy is fragile because of his utter failure to maintain a healthy relationship with a member of the opposite sex but his actions are pretty inexcusable.

[The Joker]

Concerning stuff like Comicsgate, and the overall deteriorating health of the industry, it really wouldn't surprise me if we see a collapse of the business sometime in the not-too-distant future to be perfectly honest. Course maybe I'm completely off the mark considering I've purposely kept myself (mostly) out of the loop concerning comic books for a good while now. However, it doesn't take a rocket scientist to see that the industry cannot be considered anywhere remotely being described as "in good shape", and the Disney Star Wars-like contempt for the fan base that we see from creators on twitter and facebook is only succeeding in speeding up the cancer, along with alienating long time reader's continued interest in today's so-called "product".

This is an industry that has found itself focused more on preaching, political agendas, and online shenanigans than about stories and characters. These days, reader's are simply not even given the courtesy of being able to disappear into those magical realms for a few minutes every month (or so). Evidently, that's too much to ask for. And when old school creator's call today's comics fanzines rather than actual professional work, I couldn't agree more.