Congratulations to Batman v Superman

[The Laughing Fish]

Maybe one can understand people who work in the business - awards are seen as an achievement, they open doors etc. What I can't understand is the fans. As a Game of Thrones fan I often browse related sites and communities - most of them, at least those more active in the comments, make such a big deal of the Emmys. It's as if being a fan of something that won awards makes you better. The Wire never won an Emmy.

I hate to say it, but a lot of comic book movie/fantasy fans are extremely similar to glory hunting sports fans. I suspect a lot of these people are subconsciously more influenced by the hype surrounding a particular piece of art, rather than having a real appreciation for it. They're the same type of people who make a big deal out of Rotten Tomatoes scores and box office earnings, instead of backing up any real subjective thoughts why they enjoy (or don't enjoy) something. It's sad.

The only possible exception why a fan might be concerned with box office results is if it affects any chances for sequels. But that's it.

[thecolorsblend]

I've come to realise there are three basic functions of the Academy Awards:

1)   They improve the value of a filmmaker's currency within the industry and increase the likelihood of them getting more work.

2)   They're useful in overseas marketing. Audiences in foreign language territories are unlikely to be familiar with Leonard Maltin, Richard Roeper or Mark Kermode, so critical endorsements won't mean much to them. But they will recognise the Oscar symbol on a poster. In that sense, the Oscars can be a powerful marketing tool.

3)   They're a decadent bourgeois circlejerk for the industry to pat itself on the back and virtue signal; with self-deluding entertainers labouring under the misapprehension they hold some kind of moral authority over the rest of us, or that they possess some unique insight into the human condition that simply must be expressed. That way they can feel good about themselves as they drive home to their 5,000 sq ft mansions in their stretch limousines with their $208.5k goodie bags.

Related to #3, there are some in instances when the Oscars serve as a useful encouragement and vote of confidence.

Prosecution's Exhibit A: Superman Returns was nominated for an Oscar for VFX. Does ANYBODY think that was genuinely merited? No, of course not. But it was never about merit. The reality is that Sony Pictures Imageworks and Rhythm & Hues have done phenomenal work... but you wouldn't necessarily know that judging by Superman Returns. The reason for that is because Bryan Singer was in rehab for a good chunk of post-production on that turd so he couldn't approve shots. The VFX crews had to work double-time to keep up once Singer was out of rehab. In the end, there was no choice but for Singer to approve shots which were half-finished at best. Some were even less than that.

In the end, Superman Returns was nominated for a visual effects Oscar for which it was imminently unqualified as a show of good faith on the part of the Hollywood community. It was never going to win. And that was never the point. The point is that Hollywood collectively told Rhythm & Hues and Sony Pictures Imageworks "Hey, the movie had crap effects but we know that wasn't your fault. We'll keep hiring you guys to make our movies." Only that and nothing more.

As you say, there's nothing meritocratic about the Oscars. Hell, there's very little meritocratic about Hollywood point blank. If Hollywood was a meritocracy, Superman Returns would've been the last movie Bryan Singer ever made (because his movie bombed) and the VFX companies wouldn't have gotten a nomination for anything (because they didn't deserve it, no matter who's at fault for that).

[thecolorsblend]

Oh, one other thing. Since we're unloading on Hollywood here, I really hope people understand that the backlash has been building for a long time. Admittedly, anecdotal testimony doesn't mean much. But considering that I live almost right in the center of flyover country, I hope I have credibility in saying I don't remember a time when Hollywood and celebrities were ever well-liked.

Most people I know always thought of celebrities as one step away from politicians as far as credibility. I don't think any of them mind celebrities, per se. But being told they're immoral by out-of-touch millionaires who play Pretend for living while they boff their co-stars and snort everything in sight is a bit much.

Speaking personally, I honestly don't care to ever see Chris Evans in anything, least of all a Captain America movie, ever again. The guy has just burned his last bridge with me. Other celebrities are in the same boat.

Clearly I'm not alone (on some level or another). And so what I think we're seeing boil over in the culture right now has in truth been bubbling for a long time. Twenty years, at least.

[johnnygobbs]

I must have missed something but I thought Superman Returns' effects were brilliant...The film had other problems, but the visuals weren't one of them as far as I'm concerned.

As for celebrities, sure some of them have big mouths and they are mostly out-of-touch, but if you end up boycotting all these various actors' films (and there are vocal 'do-gooders' in all of these franchises including the DCEU, and Chris Evans is hardly the 'worst'), you might as well give up on films altogether, and I guess that includes watching and talking about Batman films...and I'm not sure how relevant this site would then be to you, since it's effectively a site dedicated to Batman films.

[The Dark Knight]

Speaking personally, I honestly don't care to ever see Chris Evans in anything, least of all a Captain America movie, ever again. The guy has just burned his last bridge with me. Other celebrities are in the same boat.

Clearly I'm not alone (on some level or another). And so what I think we're seeing boil over in the culture right now has in truth been bubbling for a long time. Twenty years, at least.

If you want to see unhinged, look no further than Chris Evans.

Evans and the Marvel brand are stone cold dead to me. The Marvel boycott is really easy for me because I was never a rusted-on Marvel supporter anyway. They have really gone overboard with the SJW crap and their movies are grossly overrated and samey anyway.

Evans "feels rage and fury"? Well, I feel it a LOT more. Hollyweird's purpose is to undermine and destroy America and remake it into a Communist Marxist utopia. So Evans and his crowd can keep on yapping. It's not working out well for them. They just reveal themselves and get added to the shun list.

Girlbusters?
Ocean's H8?
Diversity-Man: Homecoming?
Spielberg's Syrian 'refugee' film?

ALL BOYCOTTED! And I'm not the only one. Will these fools get the hint it's not a good idea to piss off large chunks of people? Probably not, but that's okay too. If I get a whiff of any agenda, I'm voting with my wallet. Leftists call for Ivanka Trump's clothing to be boycotted – her sales skyrocket 346% since January. And there are other similar examples. We hold the power here, but the media like to pretend otherwise.

Honestly, I'm okay with knowing if someone holds a different view to me. That's life and it's to be expected. But if they go off the deep end and start their holier than thou act? That's where I walk away. For example, in the past I liked Madonna's music and aspects of her routine. But after her recent commentary? Nope. She's dead to me. I just cannot follow or support anyone like that. It's sad but that's just how it is. If these people want us to pick a side then we will. She decided to go down that road, not me.

In my estimations, DC Comics have been pretty good. Certainly, nowhere near the levels of Marvel who are nothing but advocacy comics, especially in recent times – female Thor, female Wolverine, etc. I mean, the entire Avengers cast made an election video openly supporting who became the losing candidate. I don't know how much more blatant you can get. Marvel, for example, can't act surprised when there's a backlash because they took such an obvious leaning and continue to do so.

A lot of the entertainment media has become so politicized and honestly, while I follow politics, I explore fiction because it's largely an escape from politics.  Gender, race and sexuality is all they have. And we're sick of it. 

[thecolorsblend]

I must have missed something but I thought Superman Returns' effects were brilliant...The film had other problems, but the visuals weren't one of them as far as I'm concerned.

I suppose there's a subjective element to whether or not these effects are enjoyable.

However, my view is many of these shots would have been laughable even back in the PS2 days.

The robotic, rubbery quality of many of those sequences might have been tolerable in the 90's but the technology had progressed more than Superman Returns would have someone believe. It's not quite Scorpion King-bad. But it's still pretty bad.

The fact is that even back in 2006, visual effects could do better than Superman Returns offered. It's something to frown on that The Matrix Reloaded had better flying effects despite being three years older than SR. Not all visual effects in SR had that problem. But I find it interesting that shots which required a certain elegance or nuance to them (such as the two I linked above) tended to be clunky and rubbery. Those usually had the most problems. I therefore infer that Singer originally intended to spend additional time on those shots but... rehab.

if you end up boycotting all these various actors' films (and there are vocal 'do-gooders' in all of these franchises including the DCEU, and Chris Evans is hardly the 'worst'), you might as well give up on films altogether,

In many ways, I have. Politicking is nothing new in Hollyweird. But it is becoming unbearable. So I bear it less and less often now.

To be fair, my frustration with Evans goes back to the pre-release hysteria with Winter Soldier where he announced he wanted to finish up his contract and retire from the character. It has snowballed into an avalanche since that time.

and I guess that includes watching and talking about Batman films

If that's a snipe at Affleck's politicking, I'm not letting him off the hook for anything. But at the same time, he does it less often and usually to a lesser degree than others. Plus, Affleck played Batman the way I always wanted to see him played and that counts for a lot. His habit of being less annoying combined with his amazing performance has inclined me to give him a lot of latitude.

However, I don't necessarily extend that latitude to just anybody.

I'm DC born and bred so Marvel characters inherently matter less to me. So Evans, however good a job he's done as Cap, doesn't get the same breaks that Affleck can expect.

[johnnygobbs]

In my estimations, DC Comics have been pretty good. Certainly, nowhere near the levels of Marvel who are nothing but advocacy comics, especially in recent times – female Thor, female Wolverine, etc. I mean, the entire Avengers cast made an election video openly supporting who became the losing candidate. I don't know how much more blatant you can get. Marvel, for example, can't act surprised when there's a backlash because they took such an obvious leaning and continue to do so.

A lot of the entertainment media has become so politicized and honestly, while I follow politics, I explore fiction because it's largely an escape from politics.  Gender, race and sexuality is all they have. And we're sick of it.

Then why aren't you boycotting the DCEU?  Ben Affleck is as openly liberal as anyone involved with the Marvel films.  He was a very vocal John Kerry supporter during the 2004 election.

If you're going to be consistent in your stance, I don't see how you can continue to talk about boycotting these films on political grounds and still give money to any film featuring Ben Affleck.

Maybe you should stick to TDK trilogy (which you bizarrely seem to dislike).  Sir Michael Caine, Gary Oldman, and to some degree Morgan Freeman all lean conservative, and Christopher Nolan's films were targeted by some liberal commentators for being pro-surveillance/pro-Patriot Act and anti-Occupy Wall Street.

By the way, if you think multimillionaire movie stars who own private jets and live in multimillion dollar condos in restricted communities, are remotely Communist or Marxist, you really need to pick up a copy of Das Kapital and learn what Communism/Marxism actually means.  Social Justice Warrior rhetoric and Hillary's neoliberal pro-Wall Street/pro-Western interventionist agenda has got zero to do with Communism/Marxism.

[johnnygobbs]

If that's a snipe at Affleck's politicking, I'm not letting him off the hook for anything. But at the same time, he does it less often and usually to a lesser degree than others. Plus, Affleck played Batman the way I always wanted to see him played and that counts for a lot. His habit of being less annoying combined with his amazing performance has inclined me to give him a lot of latitude.

However, I don't necessarily extend that latitude to just anybody.

I'm DC born and bred so Marvel characters inherently matter less to me. So Evans, however good a job he's done as Cap, doesn't get the same breaks that Affleck can expect.

Fair enough...

I was mostly referring to Affleck (I'm sure there are other vocal liberals involved with the DCEU, but Affleck stands out as the most prominent), but I will concede that you're right about him being less public about it these days (at the very moment the rest of Hollywood, rightly or wrongly, has gone in the other direction and ramped up the political rhetoric).  Maybe he was burned by his pro-Kerry campaigning back in 2004, and the unhelpful focus on the 'Bennifer' relationship and his issues with alcohol at the time.

For what it's worth, and most of you here probably know where I stand politically (i.e. I'm a liberal), I'm not a fan of celebrity politicking whether it's in favour of a liberal or conservative candidate/agenda.  Like a lot of you here, I don't give much credence to the opinions of multimillionaire celebrities anymore than I do to that of Joe Schmoe (in fact, I probably give less credence to people who don't tend to have the same day-to-day financial problems as the majority of the world), and although I like many political films, I prefer not to know the positions of the people involved.  As far as I'm concerned, they're doing a job; to act/direct/write.  And their respective political positions are immaterial and if anything detract from their work.

As for why it's more of a deal these days, personally I blame Twitter, and similar social media sites.  Anytime I want to look up a particular actor/director/writer/musician, because I'm interested in finding out more about their work, the first damn thing that comes up during a search is their frickin Twitter feed, which often, these days, tends to be commenting on some political matter or another.  Speaking even as a lib, it gets on my bloody nerves, especially as a lot of it strikes me as insincere virtue signalling from spoiled, pampered elitists who know next to nothing about the realities of poverty, bigotry, and social injustice.

[The Dark Knight]

If that's a snipe at Affleck's politicking, I'm not letting him off the hook for anything. But at the same time, he does it less often and usually to a lesser degree than others. Plus, Affleck played Batman the way I always wanted to see him played and that counts for a lot. His habit of being less annoying combined with his amazing performance has inclined me to give him a lot of latitude.

However, I don't necessarily extend that latitude to just anybody.

I'm DC born and bred so Marvel characters inherently matter less to me. So Evans, however good a job he's done as Cap, doesn't get the same breaks that Affleck can expect.

Yep. Sure, I disagree with most liberal views, but they exist and that's life. Expressing an opinion is free speech and most of the time I let things slide. Ben has said things but nothing that has really pissed me off. It's far less frequent, and hey, he also loves Tom Brady like 45. That's gotta count for something.

It's when somebody becomes an obnoxious Chris Evans or a raving Madonna who dreams of blowing up the White House. Or if the product they star in comes with a not so subtle SJW/anti conservative message. That's the real issue I have. You're not going to like absolutely everything about someone. That's impossible. But it's the tone they strike that matters.

[thecolorsblend]

Yep. Sure, I disagree with most liberal views, but they exist and that's life. Expressing an opinion is free speech and most of the time I let things slide. Ben has said things but nothing that has really pissed me off. It's far less frequent, and hey, he also loves Tom Brady like 45. That's gotta count for something.

It's when somebody becomes an obnoxious Chris Evans or a raving Madonna who dreams of blowing up the White House. Or if the product they star in comes with a not so subtle SJW/anti conservative message. That's the real issue I have. You're not going to like absolutely everything about someone. That's impossible. But it's the tone they strike that matters.

The hell of it is that I'm not so bothered by that. I guess I've become immune to it. But they can go out there and advocate for whatever cause they believe in. By all means, I'm immune to it. They won't persuade me so what's the harm?

But when they start insulting people, that crosses a line. Take Michael Shannon, for example. I used to really enjoy his work. He's incredibly talented and he proved to me that he could play a memorable Zod without copying Terrence Stamp. Obviously I love Boardwalk Empire too. I'm pretty sure there's a law about that or something. "You must enjoy Boardwalk Empire or else the puppy gets it". It's something like that.

But what Shannon said was WAY out of order. Those were some of the most vicious insults I've ever seen. Not to get all Internet Tough Guy but if somebody said that to me face-to-face, he's getting smacked. At least one of us is going to the hospital, simple as that. He insulted me, my family, my friends and also about half the country. And we're not talking about politics or politicians here. We're talking about insulting people.

Trash-talking theoretically half of your audience that way is just classless. I admire Shannon's talent. Very few people can do what he does the way he does it as well as he does it. But the fact is that he's on my list now. The boycott list. If his name is in a movie's credits, I'm saving my money. I don't care what the movie is. If he comes back to the DCEU, I guess I'm SOL because that rule is absolute. None of my money goes to a production which involves Michael Shannon. Period.

If Shannon went out there to advocate for some leftie wackadoo cause, eh, whatever. Let him say his piece. But when he attacks and mocks the American people, the voters, his freaking customers, then we've got a problem.