Comics Creators on Superman in Live Action

[thecolorsblend]

Simone isn't completely wrong. Romance is native to Superman in ways that probably no other characters can quite match. Ignoring it is a bad move. But overplaying it (*cough*Singer*cough*) is even worse.

What Snyder did was depict Superman as the bridge between two peoples and Lois as Superman's bridge to humanity. She's what enfranchises him in the human race when nothing else ever really did. And all because she showed him a simple act of kindness (eg, acceptance) after he showed her a simple (for him) act of kindness (eg, saving her life).

Ages ago, I had a few go-rounds with Simone about some juvenile stuff. It was immature on both our parts. I've never been overly fond of her Superman work and her notions of Superman as a romance first and foremost isn't something I agree with... which is probably why I'm not fond of her Superman work.

[The Laughing Fish]

John Ostrander weighs in on the difference between Henry Cavill and Tyler Hoechlin, in an opinion piece titled "Making a Better Superman":

As of last Monday night, Warner Bros grew a Superman problem. That's the night that Supergirl started its second season on its new home, the CW... where one could argue that it always belonged anyway. The show guest starred Supergirl's cousin, Superman, embodied on TV by Tyler Hoechlin.

If you don't already know, DC – unlike Marvel – does not link its movie universe and its TV universe. Since DC Comics is currently in the Multiple Universe concept once more, it might help to think of their TV and movie universes as alternate dimensions. So we can have two Flashes, two Wonder Women – and two versions of Superman.

The DC movie version of Superman, as shown in Man of Steel and Superman vs. Batman: Dawn of Justice Whaddee Do Dah, is played by Henry Cavill and is a darker, more brooding, somewhat more Batman-ish Superman. His costume is also darker, almost a blue-black. He is, we are told, a more "realistic" Superman. And that's where I think the trouble is going to lie.

Supergirl's Superman is a more traditional Man of Steel. He's a brighter, more confident, more hopeful vision. And, not to slam Henry Cavill, Tyler Hoechlin is a better actor. As a kid he held his own with Tom Hanks, Paul Newman, Jude Law, and Daniel Craig in Road to Perdition where Hoechlin played a starring role as Michael Sullivan, Jr. (Sidenote: not everyone realizes that Road to Perdition is also a "comic book movie" based on the graphic novel by Max Allan Collins and Richard Piers Rayner. Work that little factoid into your conversations. Amaze your friends. Go out and get a copy. Great read. End of plug.)

The Superman appearing on Supergirl is more my idea of who Superman is – confident, capable, friendly, powerful and, according to one character on the show, smells good. When he walks into the DEO, the government facility where Lara's adopted sister Alex works, people just stop and stare. Superman works the crowd, smiling, shaking hands, setting people at ease not like a politician or even a celebrity but like a nice guy from Kansas which, for all his powers, he is.

Hoechlin also does a great Clark Kent, reminiscent of Christopher Reeve's great turn, having a deft sense of humor to the portrayal and making the bumbling aspect work. When his cousin secretly congratulates Clark on a well executed file fumble in the elevator, he tells her it wasn't an act. That's endearing.

Also, in the TV aspect of the DCU, there isn't the underlying mistrust that the DC movie universe has for this strange person from another world. Batman wants to kill Superman because the Kryptonian could be a threat; one of the arguments leading to the creation of the Suicide Squad was who could stop Superman if he decided to burst through the roof of the White House and grab the President? On Supergirl, people trust the Man of Steel. Seeing him, or his cousin, inspires hope. While the darker portrayal may be more "realistic," it's not what the character is about.

I'm not looking for a return to the Superman of the Fifties as seen in either the comics or the TV show. To be honest, that one bored me even as a kid. The movies, however, makes him more angsty, more dour, and less Super. Hoechlin is only scheduled to appear as a guest star on the TV show for right now but he wears the tights and the cape – and Clark Kent's glasses – quite well.

I know that in BvS: DoJ (spoiler alert, I guess) Superman dies at the end of the film but we all know he's coming back for the Justice League movie. I, for one, wouldn't mind if the movie Superman uses the grave as a chrysalis and pops out as Tyler Hoechlin. Or maybe they can have Tyler spin off into a series as Superman. I'd watch it. And I bet lots of others would as well.

And that's going to be WB's problem – the better Superman isn't on the big screen; it's on the small one.

Source: http://www.comicmix.com/2016/10/16/john-ostrander-making-a-better-superman/

I can't help but disagree with Ostrander on a number of things.

Once again, just because you don't like the idea of Superman going through trials and tribulations regardless how it is written, doesn't make him as dark as Batman. I think that's just a gross simplification for my liking.

I have nothing against Hoechlin, but I can see why some hardcore fans are getting fed up with this need to ape Christopher Reeve, and Ostrander isn't doing anybody any favours if they try to rebut claims that DCEU detractors are nostalgic over Reeve's portrayal. In fact, I'd say he's not doing Hoechlin any favours either because one can interpret that Hoechlin isn't really stamping his own name into the role, he's only copying somebody else who came before. Kind of like how some people tried to defend Brandon Routh. Superman's first appearance in Supergirl with the constant references to S78 soured my anticipation for him. Let him be his own take, FFS!

If Hoechlin's Superman were to headline his own TV show, I want to see how Supes overcomes his own challenges and doubt and see how the show builds his own character arc. I don't want to see a 23-season long show full of forced smiles and "good-natured fun", that same narrow-minded sh*t is slowly undermining the quality of the recent MCU films lately.

On a separate note: I haven't seen Lois and Clark for twenty years, but I realise that Dean Cain's portrayal was more refreshing than I ever gave him credit for, particularly for his no-nonsense, hardhitting demeanor as Clark Kent, Daily Planet reporter. Would he have been accepted for today's audience? Sadly, I doubt it.

[The Laughing Fish]

Simone isn't completely wrong. Romance is native to Superman in ways that probably no other characters can quite match. Ignoring it is a bad move. But overplaying it (*cough*Singer*cough*) is even worse.

What Snyder did was depict Superman as the bridge between two peoples and Lois as Superman's bridge to humanity. She's what enfranchises him in the human race when nothing else ever really did. And all because she showed him a simple act of kindness (eg, acceptance) after he showed her a simple (for him) act of kindness (eg, saving her life).

Ages ago, I had a few go-rounds with Simone about some juvenile stuff. It was immature on both our parts. I've never been overly fond of her Superman work and her notions of Superman as a romance first and foremost isn't something I agree with... which is probably why I'm not fond of her Superman work.

I was starting to think Simone may have been taking the piss. But if you actually contacted her over this sort of topic - well, I'm rather disappointed with her childish perception of Clark and Lois's relationship. It's as equally as simplistic for liking another version of Superman more only for the fact he happens to smile more. Seriously, is that's it? Forget about whether or not if you think the execution of an idea works, you simply like another iteration better because he smiles more? If that's the common discourse shared among Superman fans nowadays, then the character has no hope.

[thecolorsblend]

Simone isn't completely wrong. Romance is native to Superman in ways that probably no other characters can quite match. Ignoring it is a bad move. But overplaying it (*cough*Singer*cough*) is even worse.

What Snyder did was depict Superman as the bridge between two peoples and Lois as Superman's bridge to humanity. She's what enfranchises him in the human race when nothing else ever really did. And all because she showed him a simple act of kindness (eg, acceptance) after he showed her a simple (for him) act of kindness (eg, saving her life).

Ages ago, I had a few go-rounds with Simone about some juvenile stuff. It was immature on both our parts. I've never been overly fond of her Superman work and her notions of Superman as a romance first and foremost isn't something I agree with... which is probably why I'm not fond of her Superman work.

I was starting to think Simone may have been taking the piss. But if you actually contacted her over this sort of topic - well, I'm rather disappointed with her childish perception of Clark and Lois's relationship. It's as equally as simplistic for liking another version of Superman more only for the fact he happens to smile more. Seriously, is that's it? Forget about whether or not if you think the execution of an idea works, you simply like another iteration better because he smiles more? If that's the common discourse shared among Superman fans nowadays, then the character has no hope.

I didn't mean to imply that she and I duked it out over the romance thing.

No, that would've been a step up.

Seriously, we were both that immature about something even less important. Embarrassing, really.

So here we are.

[The Laughing Fish]

Ethan Van Sciver shared this video where he rants about Superman comics and movies.

To be honest, he was losing me after listening to his praise for the Donner Cut and SII in general. I know I've said this many times before, but I'm sorry, no matter how much Clark fell in love with Lois, I never bought how he'd easily relinquish his powers in SII. As I said before, Clark didn't harbor any doubts about being Superman, and it makes it unbelievable. Yes, I understand Van Sciver is trying to say the movie's moral of the story is we can't give up our duties to satisfy our selfish desires, but again, I found the motive for the character giving up to be flawed in the first place.

As for his criticism over Superman "not" saving a single person in MOS, it's definitely a flawed outlook. Yes, I can't deny how he was guilty of recklessness in that movie, but some of the criticisms such as Superman bringing the villains to Earth and killing Zod can easily be applied to SII.

[thecolorsblend]

You're right, the Donner thing is a little goofy. In Superman II, Superman brought Zod to Earth, unbeknownst to himself and to Zod. In MOS, Superman brought Zod to Earth, except both of them knew it. Really, that's the big difference.

Superman saved Lois twice in MOS that I can remember and he also saved the soldier who fell out of the helicopter in Smallville. We don't know how many people died in Metropolis... but we do know that the ones who survived have Superman to thank.

Van Sciver was apparently offered SUPERMAN (the monthly title) during the launch of The New 52. For whatever reason, he chose not to accept it. But I look back at the clusterf**k that TN52 Superman was and I can't help thinking that if he felt so strongly about the matter, he had a chance to do something about it years and chose not to.

It's good that he feels so strongly about the character. But his criteria are a little inconsistent and he certainly squandered an opportunity.

[The Laughing Fish]

Jon Bogdanove on who would win in a contest between Kirk Alyn and Dean Cain's Superman:

I think Kirk Alyn looked better as Superman than Dean Cain—so he'd definitely win if the competition was based on who looked more like Superman in the comics at the time they were each playing the character.

Dean was a football player. Kirk was a dancer. Both were very fit and muscular, but Dean had greater muscle mass. Kirk was possibly faster and more agile, though. Dean's knees might be a vulnerability, but that might not matter much in close combat.

In a street fight, set in some dimension outside of time, with both actors at the peak condition they were when they wore the tights—I'd probably give Dean the edge, I think.

https://www.quora.com/Who-would-win-Dean-Cain-Superman-Lois-Clark-or-Kirk-Alyn-Superman-1948

[The Laughing Fish]

Dan Jurgens on people having problems with his appreciation of Man of Steel back in 2013:

Fan wants me to apologize for liking "Man of Steel". Sure. Right after I apologize for liking puppies, rainbows, fresh air and life itself.

https://twitter.com/thedanjurgens/status/350705721236660224

Jurgens on Superman Returns, again back in 2013:

I was way more troubled by Superman being a deadbeat dad and sleazy voyeur in Superman Returns than anything in MOS.

https://twitter.com/thedanjurgens/status/345565304321101825



And here's Jurgens once more expressing his appreciation for one of the ZSJL posters paying homage to The Death of Superman.

Flattered.

Risen #SnyderCut

https://twitter.com/thedanjurgens/status/1355173271805767682

[thecolorsblend]

Jurgens never ceases to impress me. Never would've guessed we have identical opinions about SR and MOS.