Max Shreck's Death

[The Laughing Fish]

Minor criticism here, but one thing about BR that seemed a little off was the death of Max Shreck. I don't know, it seemed a little to sudden. For such a major character, it seems like he was taken out as an afterthought. Maybe I just wanted to see a future for the character, but the Penguin had a grand sendoff and Catwoman was set up for future installments.

Max Shreck is definitely a fascinating character, but his demise was far from an afterthought. The purpose of his death was to present how toxic and damaging vengeance can be. Selina's hatred for him was so severe that it brought a premature end to her relationship with Bruce (of course, it should also be mentioned that she felt extremely guilty for the bad things she's done herself - mainly her indirectly playing a part in the Ice Princess' death).

I get that Schreck could've been used again as a manipulative mob boss, but I find the ending with Batman left alone in his bittersweet victory to be too thematically compelling.

[johnnygobbs]

No, I quoted Catwoman where she called the opinion "ridiculous."

It's interesting that you bring Chip up. The only time Max shows any amount of compassion was when his son was threatened. Again, something that could totally be expanded upon. Though there's also lots of backstory assumed as well... Man, how awesome would it be if they added Max to the Gotham series.

If he had to live with Chip's death, Max would be even more dangerous. We've never seen him actively plot against any of the main characters.

Okay, I'm sorry for getting the wrong end of the stick, although to be fair to Catwoman, I don't think she explicitly said anything about Max Shreck surviving.  I think that was me.

But back to the substance of your post, I agree that it would be absolutely fascinating to see characters like Max Shreck appear in some capacity in other media, including "Gotham".  There are other film characters, including Max's son Chip, that I'd also like to see incorporated into the show/comics/other Batman media.

[Silver Nemesis]

He wasn't in the water very long,

Neither was the Penguin, but he snuffed it.

and whatever toxic waste was in their would be massively diluted by the water.  I doubt anyone would die from being exposed to that water for a few seconds.

Either the toxic waste was sufficient to kill, in which case Shreck should have died too, or it was diluted, in which case it was a feeble component in Penguin's plan to kill the firstborns. Other weak elements in Penguin's scheme include him sending out a single train with about four cages, moving at the speed of a milk float, to round up every firstborn child in the entire city; not to mention alerting the city's most powerful elite to the threat just as his henchmen were setting out to enact it. All in all, Penguin's master plan was probably the most poorly thought out of any Batman movie villain so far.

[johnnygobbs]

He wasn't in the water very long,

Neither was the Penguin, but he snuffed it.

The Penguin crashed through a glass ceiling before plunging into the water from a high distance.  It's also possible he came close to drowning as he would have been in the water/diluted toxic waste for a much longer period than Shreck was.

not to mention alerting the city's most powerful elite to the threat just as his henchmen were setting out to enact it.

Well, he did personally come for 'Gotham's favourite son' Chip.  Plus, he was eaten up with bitterness and hatred towards the elite that had rejected him.  His whole plan was about getting back at these very people, so as far as he was concerned, it made perfect sense to boast of his machinations in the one place he knew they'd all be.

[Silver Nemesis]

You defend the movie valiantly, gobbs. Respect.

However I feel the film's final act would have benefited from the Penguin having a stronger master plan. Preferably one involving Shreck's power plant, since that was the catalyst for almost every major subplot in the movie:

•   Shreck is antagonistic towards the current mayor because he opposes the plant
•   Shreck's alliance with Cobblepot, and the entire mayoral election subplot, are driven by Max's desire to get the construction of the plant green lit
•   Selina's quest for revenge against Shreck stems from his attempt to kill her after he caught her snooping through files concerning the power plant
•   Bruce Wayne's business dealings with Shreck, and his first meeting with Selina, result from his opposition to the power plant

If it wasn't for the power plant, Max wouldn't have opposed the current mayor, he wouldn't have teamed up with Cobblepot, he wouldn't have campaigned for a recall election, he wouldn't have tried to kill Selina, there would be no Catwoman, and Bruce Wayne would never have gone to a business meeting with Shreck and thus would never have met Selina. Yet the plant itself is conspicuously forgotten in the second half of the film. I think it would have been better if it had tied in with Oswald's master plan.

What if his real motive for his alliance with Shreck was to gain access to the power plant so he could set the reactor to overload? The plant could already be under construction at an offshore site, similar to Rupert Thorne's in the Englehart/Rogers Detective Comics run. The Penguin's revenge would cause a nuclear/ecological disaster that would irradiate the waters surrounding Gotham (tying in with the sea life motif) and shower the city itself in radioactive fallout. It could be explained that Oswald's own birth defects stemmed from his mother being exposed to radioactive waste when pregnant, adding an extra layer of tragic irony (or poetic justice) to his revenge.

The Penguin could have taken Shreck to the under-construction power plant at the end of the film instead of the zoo, and instead of seeing the Batskiboat driving in a straight line through the sewers, we could have seen Batman piloting it through the frozen waters of Gotham harbour en route for the offshore power plant. Setting the finale there would also explain why the police make no effort to interfere with Cobblepot's scheme: they're not able to reach the plant because the penguin commandoes sink any police launches and the Red Triangle Gang members shoot down any police helicopters. The Batskiboat is the only vehicle manoeuvrable enough to skirt Cobblepot's defences and reach the plant. Batman could have stopped the reactor from overloading, knocked Cobblepot into the sea and saved Shreck. Then, when Batman arrives back at shore with Shreck, he finds Catwoman waiting for him. The showdown with Selina would play out more or less the same, only it would occur in an abandoned part of Gotham harbour. And after Selina and Shreck disappear in the explosion, Cobblepot's half-drowned body is washed ashore. He struggles to his feet, gazes up at the city that rejected him, then dies and is washed out to sea by the tide.

Just an idea, but I think that would have been a better final act.