Spider-Man: Homecoming

[Silver Nemesis]

I've been thinking about this film quite a lot over the last few days, and the more I do so the more I appreciate what Marvel has achieved with this latest reboot.

I've watched all six Spider-Man films in the past week, and it's interesting to note how some have benefited from subsequent entries in the franchise while others have suffered. Spider-Man 3, for example, has benefited immensely from the Marc Webb films. Meanwhile the Marc Webb films have suffered from the quality of Spider-Man: Homecoming. Watching the Webb films again over the past two nights, I feel more strongly than ever that they're pointless remakes. They're not bad films, and there's a lot to admire in them. Garfield and Stone in particular are excellent in their respective roles. But the tone of both movies is uneven, and the plots lift too many of the same beats from the source material that Raimi adapted. Only Raimi did it better. The Webb films tried to put their own spin on these events, but ultimately amounted to little more than a premature and unjustified rehash. Then along comes Homecoming and manages to reboot the franchise without repeating anything from the Raimi films. It's literally a completely new story, with villains we haven't seen before and a style we haven't experienced in any previous Spider-Man film. That's a pretty amazing accomplishment when you think about it.

The tragedy of Uncle Ben is subtly alluded to, but never outright described. Spider-Man's origin is recapped through humorous dialogue, but never depicted. Spider-Man's love interest is not central to the narrative and is not threatened by the villain during the finale. The new incarnations of Aunt May, Ned, Flash and (SPOILERS) MJ (END SPOILERS) are pretty much unrecognisable from their earlier iterations, both in the comics and the movies. Even Spider-Man's motivations are different. The classic Spider-Man is driven by guilt over his uncle's death and an ongoing desire to live up to an ideal of great responsibility. There was a vague reference to the responsibility angle in Civil War, but aside from that it's not been a major factor in the MCU so far.

This isn't an insecure Spider-Man wracked by guilt and constantly questioning himself. Instead, Homecoming presents us with an ambitious confident Spider-Man whose central motivation is a desire to impress Tony Stark and join the Avengers. Just as Peter Parker wants to fit in at high school, so Spider-Man wants to fit in with the superhero fraternity. It's a different central drive from what we saw in earlier films, but nevertheless has its basis in the comics. Amazing-Spider-Man Vol 1 #1 showed Peter trying unsuccessfully to join the Fantastic Four (the Avengers didn't exist back then). To an extent, Spider-Man's always been a hero who's defined in the context of a wider superhero fraternity. He can mingle with the street level heroes, but can also rub shoulders with the Avengers. He can move between cliques without necessarily belonging to one, much like a high school misfit.

The themes of ambition and stratification also play a role in Vulture's story. Toomes' is resentful of Damage Control and their monopoly on salvaging operations in the MCU. He looks up to the big guys and wants a piece of what they have; similar to how Spider-Man aspires to be an Avenger. Both characters want to ascend to what they perceive as a better way of life. They see what someone else has and want it for themselves. This fits in perfectly with the high school environment and its themes of cliques, competition and jealousy. But at the end of the day, Spider-Man and Vulture are both street level characters. Vulture isn't out to destroy the world. He's just running an illegal arms operation out of Queens. Holland's Spider-Man doesn't go swinging around Manhattan skyscrapers like his predecessors did. He just patrols his home neighbourhood. This is another way in which the MCU Spider-Man distinguishes itself from the earlier films.

The more I think about Vulture, the more I love this character. It's by far Keaton's most badass action role since Batman Returns, and the best Spider-Man movie villain since Doc Ock. He manages to pull off the rare feat of being threatening and sympathetic at the same time. They cover his origins right at the start of the film and establish a relatable motive of wanting to provide a better life for his family. He's not evil for the sake of being evil. In fact (SPOILERS) he only explicitly kills one person in the entire movie, and that was another villain. But you know he's capable of doing tremendous damage and can be a serious threat when he needs to be. (END SPOILERS) I really hope Keaton sticks with the MCU and returns in future films. I understand his reasons for quitting the Batman franchise, but it always bothered me that he never saw the series through to its conclusion. Fingers crossed that won't happen this time.

The indications so far point to this being the first entry in a new trilogy, with each film taking place during a different year of Peter's education. And by the sounds of it, they're going to continue avoiding elements from the earlier films. They've said they're only going to use villains who've never previously appeared on the big screen before. And I'm down with that. In Homecoming we got Vulture, Shocker and Tinkerer. Now I want to see Mysterio, Scorpion, Black Cat, Swarm, Hobgoblin and Kraven.

As I've said before, Raimi's trilogy is always going to be my cinematic Spider-Man. But while I don't like Homecoming as much as most people seem to, I am excited to see where they take this trilogy in the future. I think the sequels will be better. And I'm certainly a lot more enthusiastic about this reboot than I was about the last one.

[riddler]

And here we go...

The big point of contention for this film is the high school aspect. Likely due to actors ages, Peter spends far less time in high school during the previous movies than he does in the comics. Tobey Maguire graduates from high school in his first movie, Andrew Garfield in his second. As it was both films get somewhat criticized for having actors in their late 20's portray high school students. This film sets out to give us the true 'Peter Parker in high school' premise which is heavily drawn out in the comics but not so much in film. The result is about what was expected. Definitely the high school scenes play out as a John Hughes film with a super hero. The premises put forth in the film are fine but the execution of some of the high school sequences are where the movie suffers. Tom Holland plays a believable high school Peter Parker but his array of friends are largely forgettable and none of his high school friends stand out as good characters. The actress playing Betty Brant especially was extremely dry. The teenage actors just don't excel much beyond being teenage actors and are overall unlikeable and uninteresting. One finds out Peter's secret and becomes more of a hindrance than an ally once he becomes all googly eyed over knowing spider-man.
he love interest plotline isn't as annoying as Marguire/Dunst, likely because it takes a smaller plot line but it isn't nearly as developed as Garfield/Stone were. It's important to note the character expectations, this isn't MJ Watson or Gwen Stacy, the love interest is some girl named Liz, who does take on an important role by the end of the role and luckily not in the overdone "damsel in distress" clichee which the Raimi series had overused by midway through the second film.
There isn't much of an origin story for Peter Parker. Uncle Ben isn't shown or referenced other than an implication that May has suffered tragedy in her life. The spider-bite is referenced but not seen, the film starts out with Parker as spider-man so there's not much of an origin story which I'm sure we can all be thankful for having sat through it twice in the past 15 years. This version is definitely the most developed with respect to the science behind the webbing and Peter creating his own web including different versions. It IS dissolving web just like in the comics.
Tony Stark's role was similar to that of the mentor Nick Fury plays in the Ultimate spider-man comics, it's understandable why the change was made here as SHIELD is currently a shadow. Where this pays off is Stark's own 'daddy issues' projecting into his relationship with Peter. I felt this could have been stronger if Tony's trust issues were implied to be in part due to the condition of his best friend from Civil War but the current state of Colonel James Rhodes is not referenced at any point. Happy Hogan gets more screen time than Tony Stark and in his fourth portrayal of the character, Jon Favreau gives us his best performance yet. Since he gave up the director reins after Iron Man 2, Favreau was one of the bright spots in Iron Man 3 and he really provides a nice change of pace from all the high school kids himself. Iron Man is in the film but contrary to what the trailers may imply, this is definitely Spider-man's film.
I loved that this movie FINALLY gets the smartass Spider-man right. Some may call Holland yappy and annoying but that's the point of the character; he's not supposed to shut up.
Easter Eggs there are a plenty to look out for. I'm not sure if this was done to lay eggs for future films or just throw something in for the fans of the character but there are many references to the comics and previous spider-man films.
One thing which all the life action spider-man films seem to get right and this one does as well is Peter attempting to balance his personal life and always letting someone down. He's always juggling too much at once and Holland does a great job here.

Now the best part of the film and reason why you could make an argument for this being the best spidey film yet is the villain. The Vulture has never been considered spidey's arch nemisis, if anything he's the one that gets the most fun made of. This version of Adrian Toomes doesn't leave much to poke fun at. He's slightly younger than implied in the comics but he's far from a broken old man. He feels he hasn't gotten his fair shot in life and is negatively affected by the aftermath of the events during the Avengers so he reverse engineers some of the alien tech he got his hands on, creating his own weapons black market. His motivations are clear, he's dangerous, the costume looks great. I was somewhat concerned initially because the last time Keaton played a villain in a big budget action film, his character was more of a throwaway in the Robocop remake but this isn't the case here. He's layered, well developed, goes through an arc and transition and as the bad guy he is very menacing and terrifying at times. His goals are clear as are what he'll do against anyone who gets in his way. What's interesting is that his initial motivation is a hatred for Tony Stark but Keaton and RDJ do not share a single scene in the film. One thing the MCU has lacked has been great villains aside from Loki, we have one here. The Vulture isn't much of a headliner but if Keaton is on board, I will gladly take him in future MCU films. The groundwork is laid for 3 other spidey villains too as backdoor origin stories should they choose to go that route.

I don't want to compare it to the other spidey films due to the avengers presence here. I think Andrew Garfield remains the best Peter Parker but Holland takes over as the best spider-man. I definitely feel Marvel got the character right for the most part and rate this 8.5/10

[The Joker]

Got around to checking out Spider-Man: Homecoming, and, well, here's my SPOILER FILLED REVIEW.

So you know, don't read unless you want to be SPOILED!





Ok.








To start off, it's to hardly anyone's surprise, Michael Keaton's performance as Adrian Toomes/Vulture is one of the positives I can give this film. It's weirdly alien to me to say that I actually dug two different MCU villains, all within the same year, considering their often weak track record with villains, but there it is. However, it's apparent that Marvel wanted people to have some sympathy for the Vulture's methods, but it fell pretty flat for me.

Before I go off into a rant, I will say the movie had some good things in there. Such as scenes where Spidey goes around and helps out local businesses and people in trouble. Evoking a sense that he was a part of the community. A  friendly, neighborhood Spiderman if you will. Tom Holland, to me, was a pretty good Spider-Man on a purely superficial level. It's obvious he can play the role, and I felt his Peter Parker was much more in line with that of Stan Lee/Steve Ditko's original interpretation, or how Maguire played him in the Raimi films. Much more so that what we got out of of Andrew Garfield's version, so that was cool. However, I also felt the way Peter Parker/Spider-Man was written in this film was severely lacking in alot of respects.

If I was walking into this with only a fleeting knowledge of the character, by the end of the film, I would correctly assume, going off what I was given, that Parker is essentially a cookie-cutter start-up hero (who somehow escapes the whole Government 'Registration Act' but ... whatever) who's intent on trying to impress the big boy club of the Avengers. Rather than taking pauses and illustrating within the story that Spidey does, what he does, to make sure his powers are used for the greater good, following the words of his beloved Uncle Ben (who, by the way, is not mentioned in the film in any capacity), Spidey just wants to be an Avenger purely for the glory. Which is a pretty big contrast from ASM #1, where he attempts to join the Fantastic Four, but quickly loses interest when he finds out that the FF do not financially gain from being a Super-Team, and any money that rolls in goes into research/finding a cure for Ben Grimm. That revelation right there, erased any inclination that Peter could help his Aunt with the bills, and even at that very early stage in his career, he was past the glory of it all. The attention whore Spidey who was motivated for his own gain died along with the death of Uncle Ben. Within this film, replacing Ben as the father figure is Tony Stark, a man the MCU Peter no doubt idolizes, and a man who been continuously conveyed to be that of relatively low character, and who is motivated by guilt more often than not.

It's a weird change. That was introduced in MCU's CIvil War and expanded upon in Homecoming. And if one can argue that the shadow of Uncle Ben will always loom large over Spider-Man in the comics, one could also argue that the shadow of Tony Stark definitely looms large over the MCU version.

Not gonna lie, but I was fully expecting this to be rectified at some point in the film. Perhaps with Peter reciting the words of Uncle Ben to Tony Stark's face. Defining himself along with his character, and illustrating that as much as Pete looks up to Tony, there will always be someone he looks up to a little more. Or maybe in a scene where Peter and Aunt May are alone and make mention of how they wish Ben was still with them. Even that would have been somewhat sufficient. But nope. Didn't happen. Sure, I don't need to see Uncle Ben getting killed again (who's asking for that?), nor do I necessarily need Uncle Ben returning in dream sequences to inspire Peter (who's asking for that either?), but atleast throw us a damn bone and at the very least convey what the guy meant to Peter, or Aunt May for that matter.....

Speaking of Aunt May .... My issue with it is that throughout her publication history, May has NEVER been a "young vibrant" type of mother figure. Maybe I'm a bit of a purist with this stuff at heart, but the writers of Homecoming obviously missed the real core of her character. For one thing, she was never intended as someone for other characters to be drool over. For all intents and purposes, she IS the wise older mother figure, and it's been established for decades that both she and Ben were quite a bit older than Peter's own father (Ben was his older brother) and mother. Part of why he kept the secret for so long was out of fear that the knowledge might, quite literally, kill her. Needless to say, that is a pretty BIG deal and not something that should be changed on a whim in the name of keeping up the MCU humor with jokes about the "hot aunt"! Sally Field was the lowest end of where they should have gone age wise. Spunky is fine, but let's be honest, this May was more eye-candy, and for MCU humor jokes about Pete's "attractive aunt" than she was mentor or moral compass. Course the mentor spot was filled by Tony Stark in this film rather than anything Uncle Ben or Aunt May could have said or done judging purely by what is given, but I digress.

Back to Spider-Man; well, Spidey being something of a novice was fine, Since he assuredly has never been portrayed as being the most 'polished' Superhero starting out. However, I do believe Marvel Studios goes a little too far with it for cheap comedic pops, but, hey, humor! Needless to say, I'm over all the jokes and quirky moments in the MCU. In alot of ways, they come across as simpleton distractions that takes away from the actual story for me. The bathroom scene with Happy would be a fine example of what I am talking about. Unecessary and completely deflated a potentially heartwarming scene if you ask me.

I also can't say I was a fan of the unnecessarily techy Spider-Man suit. If Stark had just implemented different web-shooter combinations, spider-tracers, and the spider-signal, I guess I might be fine with that ... sorta? But adding an A.I. and all that other bullsh*t (like a Back to the Future II self-fitting and self-drying thing, ect). was just overkill. He may as well just be wearing an Iron Man suit. I was unfortunately expecting this MCU Spider-Man to actually make his own home-made suit by the end of the film. Considering he comes out the victor against the Vulture WITHOUT the techy suit, and even turns down Tony's offer of the Iron-Spider suit which he was gawking at moments earlier, stateing he wants to be more ground level but .... nope. He goes right back to the tech suit. So ..... yay ... ?!?

Truly outstanding stuff.

Now onto the nitty gritty sh*t that ended up dragging down on the film.

Everything to do with the moments with Peter Parker in high school were pointless. The beginning of the film was ADHD rush through several characters and scenes in the high school to try and establish as many characters as possible.

The diversity bullet shot through more than a few characters. Flash Thompson, being only one, flat out got butchered to Hell and back.

In the comics, Flash is your typical classic depiction of a unapologetic dickhead High School jock. Those characterisitcs don't lend itself to just any one race. That obviously could be anyone. But in this, he's a soft looking twerp, and has glasses. The most he does is call Peter Parker "Penis" Parker, and other mild insults. Seriously, WTF?

Michelle "MJ" Jones is basically the "MJ" in Peter's life going forward. An antisocial, SJW who comes across as if she walked right out of a casting call for Ally Sheedy's character from "The Breakfast Club". Literally! Oh, and I'm aware she's not Mary Jane, cause she wouldn't be Michelle Jones if that was the case, but the "My friends call me MJ" line cements her as the "MJ" within the MCU. Otherwise what's the point of putting that in there? Unless it's all apart of Marvel's plan to have Mary Jane Watson show up in a sequel where she and Michelle Jones comically feud over who gets to be called, "MJ" in the High School. Which I wouldn't put past the MCU to do with the goofball humor at this point...

Course there's also Ned Leeds and Liz Allan Toomes, but I feel as if I'm beating a dead horse with this at this point (and that's good exercise if you ever get really bored one night). For my money, the movie had so many departures from the original source material that they were based on, that it felt like the names were just literally tacked on for simple fan service. "Updated" (if you want to call it that) without any REAL understanding of WHY they were what they were in the first place.

Spider-Man's world of rich characters is, essentially, compartmentalized, amid all the Tony Stark nonsense and so much is lost as a result. The Daily Bugle's potential in future installments is, from what I can tell, effectively decimated by taking character's like Ned Leeds and Betty Brant and making them high-schoolers. The more I think about it, does the Daily Bugle even need to exist in the MCU? Think about it. The only reason they have Spidey pictures is because Peter takes his own pictures. The reason he takes his own pictures in the beginning, is so that he can get some extra cash to support his ailing aunt. May is neither sick nor poor in this iteration, and even if she were, you can bet Tony Stark would pay for everything without hesitation. It essentially erases the dynamic of Peter's superhero life being a mess, and his private life being an even bigger mess.

It doesn't seem like a big deal at first until you realize how fascinating all these Peter/Spidey dynamics are. Peter degrading Spider-Man by selling his own pics to the Bugle; irony! Flash bullying Parker but adores Spidey; irony! Aunt May hates Spider-Man but loves Peter with all her heart; yup, irony!...etc. The secret identity aspect of Peter Parker's life, if you know the original source material (seriously, it's good stuff!) goes much farther than just "hmm, isn't it interesting that we've never seen Spidey and Peter in the same room?"

Anyways, I liked Keaton's and Holland's performances, but there's alot that had me shaking my head, and there's a lot of glaring issues that hold this movie back from being a outstanding Spiderman movie. However, I honestly can't say I was ever bored watching this, so that's something, and Tom Holland is a good fit for a younger Spiderman and one of the casting choices I actually dug. Keaton was good as Adrian Toomes/The Vulture (yes, he's another MCU villain never directly stated or called "The Vulture" in this. Think Whiplash), and I consider him a saving grace for the film, even though I'll always wonder how John Malchovich as the Vulture would have been like for the once-proposed Spider-Man 4, but that's just idle daydreaming.

Honestly, it's hard for me to straight recommend watching this. I guess if you like the MCU style, you'll like this too. Personally, I wanted a Spider-Man movie....not more of the same old same old.

[Silver Nemesis]

Those are interesting thoughts, riddler and The Joker. I agree with most of what you've both said. It sounds as though I enjoyed the film more than The Joker, but not as much as riddler. For me, it's a 6½/10. Nowhere near as good as the Raimi trilogy, but more interesting and unique than the Webb duology.

PROS
•   Great hero
•   Great villain
•   Some amusing humour
•   Strong character themes

CONS
•   Bland direction
•   Lame supporting characters
•   Lack of emotional drama
•   So-so action

On the subject of the MCU Spider-Man, it seems Marvel has retroactively made Iron Man 2 his debut film. Remember the scene with the kid in the Iron Man mask (played by Jon Favreau's son)? Well Tom Holland, Jon Watts and Kevin Feige have all confirmed that kid is Peter Parker. Seriously, this is now canon.

Tony Stark in Iron Man 2: "Nice work, kid."

Tony Stark in Civil War: "Nice job, kid."

[riddler]

To start off, it's to hardly anyone's surprise, Michael Keaton's performance as Adrian Toomes/Vulture is one of the positives I can give this film. It's weirdly alien to me to say that I actually dug two different MCU villains, all within the same year, considering their often weak track record with villains, but there it is. However, it's apparent that Marvel wanted people to have some sympathy for the Vulture's methods, but it fell pretty flat for me.

See I didn't get that at all. Let's put aside our love for Michael Keaton for a second and just look at his character Adrian Toomes. I think they just gave him a motive. Right from the start they have him lose his contract likely due to there being ALIEN implications and he handles it by ripping off alien tech, making weapons out of it and selling it to criminals on the black market. All they did was give just enough to give the character a motive to do the bad things he does and give him enough screentime to tell his side of the story. He can claim he did it for his family all he wants but he went far beyond financially supporting them and knew he was risking automatically becoming a bad father and husband by breaking the law. Him becoming the Vulture was nothing more than to help his criminal acts. His turn to the life of crime was not justifiable and I don't think the movie implies this.

I love the fact that this is the first spidey film in which the villain ISN'T sympathetic in any way. The only time Toomes seems to be a decent guy is the first minute of the film until his crew gets shut down. He commits his first heinous act before the scene is over. He may do nice things during the film especially around his family but he remains a bad guy entirely through the film. The only reason we weren't cheering harder for Spidey to destroy him was because of how much we were enjoying watching Michael Keaton do what he was put on this planet to do.

[The Joker]

See I didn't get that at all. Let's put aside our love for Michael Keaton for a second and just look at his character Adrian Toomes. I think they just gave him a motive. Right from the start they have him lose his contract likely due to there being ALIEN implications and he handles it by ripping off alien tech, making weapons out of it and selling it to criminals on the black market. All they did was give just enough to give the character a motive to do the bad things he does and give him enough screentime to tell his side of the story. He can claim he did it for his family all he wants but he went far beyond financially supporting them and knew he was risking automatically becoming a bad father and husband by breaking the law. Him becoming the Vulture was nothing more than to help his criminal acts. His turn to the life of crime was not justifiable and I don't think the movie implies this.

I love the fact that this is the first spidey film in which the villain ISN'T sympathetic in any way. The only time Toomes seems to be a decent guy is the first minute of the film until his crew gets shut down. He commits his first heinous act before the scene is over. He may do nice things during the film especially around his family but he remains a bad guy entirely through the film. The only reason we weren't cheering harder for Spidey to destroy him was because of how much we were enjoying watching Michael Keaton do what he was put on this planet to do.

It's late, but seperating the character from the actor and his/her performance can be a tricky thing, since one can easily influence the other when it comes to assessing the entire package, but Keaton as the Vulture is another one of those deals where I appreciate the performance, and the charisma that he brought to the character, even if I didn't really buy the villain's motivations. Where I disagree, is that I think the film sincerely attempts in making Toomes sympathetic, or at the very least, understanding of his plight. He's painted as something of a "Blue Collar Villain" from the jump, just trying to get by and remain under the radar (which must be a 24/7 job in itself with the goons he's hired), then we see him kill the 1st Shocker, but immediately following that, we see him say that killing the guy wasn't his intention at all. Then we have scenes where we see where Toomes lives, and it's obvious he's not just 'getting by' (which is ok, since villains in comic book movies being hypocrites isn't exactly new), to Toomes even sparing Parker's life after he's figured out his secret just in order to give him a final chance to stay out of his way, and show his daughter a good time at the dance. Then at last, let's not forget that he's also shown not ratting Spidey's secret ID out to Mac Gargan who's looking for revenge, and questioning him about the rumor he's heard by the time the end credits start to roll either.

[The Laughing Fish]

SPOILERS BELOW



....





Honestly, I believe the Vulture is already the most overrated villain in the MCU. Let's face it, as soon as him and his gang get the Chitauri gear, it cuts out to eight years later and he's an established villain. It doesn't have the same impact or depth as the backstories of the Raimi trilogy. I even rate Venom, no matter how rushed he may have been in SM3, much better than this.

I felt the twist was tacked on and even predictable. I found it lacking in tension because, let's face it, there's no chemistry between Peter Parker and Liz Allen. So I found the moment when Peter abandons her to go after her father to be flat.

On the subject of the MCU Spider-Man, it seems Marvel has retroactively made Iron Man 2 his debut film. Remember the scene with the kid in the Iron Man mask (played by Jon Favreau's son)? Well Tom Holland, Jon Watts and Kevin Feige have all confirmed that kid is Peter Parker. Seriously, this is now canon.

Oh FFS, the last thing I want to be reminded of is that awful excuse for a sequel, never mind overkilling the point that Iron Man is Peter Parker's idol/father figure. Seriously, I was hoping Marvel wouldn't return to making Iron Man 2-quality films.

I also can't say I was a fan of the unnecessarily techy Spider-Man suit. If Stark had just implemented different web-shooter combinations, spider-tracers, and the spider-signal, I guess I might be fine with that ... sorta? But adding an A.I. and all that other bullsh*t (like a Back to the Future II self-fitting and self-drying thing, ect). was just overkill. He may as well just be wearing an Iron Man suit. I was unfortunately expecting this MCU Spider-Man to actually make his own home-made suit by the end of the film. Considering he comes out the victor against the Vulture WITHOUT the techy suit, and even turns down Tony's offer of the Iron-Spider suit which he was gawking at moments earlier, stateing he wants to be more ground level but .... nope. He goes right back to the tech suit. So ..... yay ... ?!?

Truly outstanding stuff.

I totally get what you mean and even agree with you, Joker. It reminds me when Nolan made Batman less of a "World's Greatest Detective" and more of a James Bond knockoff who relies on Q, aka Lucius Fox, to do nearly all of the detective, science and forensic work. Batman isn't James Bond, and Spider-Man isn't Iron Man.

That being said, I find the MCU's change understandable because Spider-Man's backstory has been done comprehensively - twice. Arguably as close as they could have been. Whereas Batman's backstory was never explored in huge detail in Burton and Schumacher's films, and Nolan could've explored the backstory about what drove Bruce's willpower to become Batman, but instead he made a story that deviated the source material just as Burton did by making the Joker be the Waynes killer in B89. Because of that, I find Batman's backstory more flexible and refreshing to explore in live action than Spider-Man, e.g. how Bruce witnessing his parents murders captured that feeling of powerlessness, which was a theme that ran throughout Batman's arc in BvS. Even Gotham has a new interpretation on the Waynes tragedy. For better or worse, Batman's sad past is a lot more open to interpretation than people want to admit.

But going back to Spider-Man, the real issue - as you say - is there is nothing to connect to this Peter Parker on an emotional level. This Peter is too happy-go-lucky. If I didn't know anything about Spider-Man, I wouldn't have guessed this kid suffered a tragedy as losing his uncle. As a matter of fact, his happy-go-lucky demeanor does NOT even gel well with the supposed themes in Civil War, when the Avengers are divided over whether or not they should submit to government oversight. Why the hell would Spider-Man want to join the Avengers when A) they kill villains, which will certainly challenge his simplistic perspective of right and wrong, and B) he would have to compromise his secret identity, assuming the Sokovia Accords are still active. Not exactly keeping up with the spirit of responsibility now, is it? As it stands, Civil War is thematically pointless.

[Silver Nemesis]

See I didn't get that at all. Let's put aside our love for Michael Keaton for a second and just look at his character Adrian Toomes. I think they just gave him a motive. Right from the start they have him lose his contract likely due to there being ALIEN implications and he handles it by ripping off alien tech, making weapons out of it and selling it to criminals on the black market. All they did was give just enough to give the character a motive to do the bad things he does and give him enough screentime to tell his side of the story. He can claim he did it for his family all he wants but he went far beyond financially supporting them and knew he was risking automatically becoming a bad father and husband by breaking the law. Him becoming the Vulture was nothing more than to help his criminal acts. His turn to the life of crime was not justifiable and I don't think the movie implies this.

I love the fact that this is the first spidey film in which the villain ISN'T sympathetic in any way. The only time Toomes seems to be a decent guy is the first minute of the film until his crew gets shut down. He commits his first heinous act before the scene is over. He may do nice things during the film especially around his family but he remains a bad guy entirely through the film. The only reason we weren't cheering harder for Spidey to destroy him was because of how much we were enjoying watching Michael Keaton do what he was put on this planet to do.

It's late, but seperating the character from the actor and his/her performance can be a tricky thing, since one can easily influence the other when it comes to assessing the entire package, but Keaton as the Vulture is another one of those deals where I appreciate the performance, and the charisma that he brought to the character, even if I didn't really buy the villain's motivations. Where I disagree, is that I think the film sincerely attempts in making Toomes sympathetic, or at the very least, understanding of his plight. He's painted as something of a "Blue Collar Villain" from the jump, just trying to get by and remain under the radar (which must be a 24/7 job in itself with the goons he's hired), then we see him kill the 1st Shocker, but immediately following that, we see him say that killing the guy wasn't his intention at all. Then we have scenes where we see where Toomes lives, and it's obvious he's not just 'getting by' (which is ok, since villains in comic book movies being hypocrites isn't exactly new), to Toomes even sparing Parker's life after he's figured out his secret just in order to give him a final chance to stay out of his way, and show his daughter a good time at the dance. Then at last, let's not forget that he's also shown not ratting Spidey's secret ID out to Mac Gargan who's looking for revenge, and questioning him about the rumor he's heard by the time the end credits start to roll either.

Vulture is a horrible, selfish human being with a strong streak of evil running through him. But he definitely has his sympathetic side. His greed extends beyond providing for his family, but his protectiveness towards his family takes precedence over his greed. (SPOILERS) That's why he spares Peter when he first discovers his true identity, even though doing so would undoubtedly jeopardise his business operation (Toomes knew Peter had saved Liz's life, and that killing Peter there and then would hurt his daughter). He also spares Peter on two later occasions: firstly when he defeats him during the final battle, but doesn't try to kill him; and secondly when he lies to Scorpion to protect his secret identity in prison. (END SPOILERS) Toomes is evil, but he isn't pure evil. There's some humanity in him.

I can only speak for myself, but I didn't like this character solely because it was Keaton playing him. Admittedly in a lesser actor's hands the role might have sucked. And Keaton's performance is a big part of his appeal. But I enjoyed the whole package. I liked the concise back-story about him being a disgruntled salvager; a literal vulture, picking at the bones of the Chitauri invasion force. I liked how his suit and weapons were reverse engineered from Chitauri hardware, and how this connected him with Shocker and Tinkerer (and possibly more villains to come). I appreciated the fact this wasn't some megalomaniac trying to conquer/destroy a city using a ubiquitous sky beam (one of the most unimaginative visual clichés in modern sci-fi films). He's a small-time crook with a localised stomping ground, trying to maintain a low profile and avoid detection by the Avengers. I love that he has a secret identity; that he takes off his mask and costume, goes home to his family and pretends to be a normal guy, just like Spider-Man himself does. I liked the parallels between him and Peter, how they both look up to a larger organisation with envy. But where Peter admires the Avengers and wants to join them, Toomes hates Damage Control and wants to rip them off. (SPOILERS) I loved the plot twist about him being Liz's dad. (END SPOILERS) That's the first time in ages a movie plot twist has genuinely surprised me. And on a purely superficial level, I just loved the way the character looks. They took one of the silliest looking villains from the comics and made him appear cool and intimidating.

Wilson Fisk is my favourite MCU villain overall, but as far as the movies go I can't think of another bad guy I like more than Vulture. Loki is a more sympathetic and layered character, but none of the scenes between Hiddleston and Hemsworth were anywhere near as intense as the scene in the car between Holland and Keaton. I'm casting my mind back through all the MCU films, but I can't think of any other scenes of hero-villain interaction with that same level of intensity. There's the showdown between Cap and Bucky in The Winter Soldier, but I don't consider Bucky a true villain. So Vulture takes the top spot for me.

Moving away from the subject of Vulture, there are some interesting fan theories circulating about where Marvel is going with the Spider-Man character in the MCU. A lot of people have picked up on the Junior Iron Man vibe this version of Peter's got going. Stark has to all intents and purposes replaced Uncle Ben and Aunt May as his guardian and mentor. His Spider-Man suit features an insane amount of technology that makes the original Iron Man costume look almost primitive by comparison. And is it a coincidence that while Paul Bettany voiced Jarvis, his wife Jennifer Connolly is voicing the computer in Spidey's suit?

Kevin Feige has confirmed big changes will be coming to the MCU at the end of Phase 3. The most probable shakeup would be the departure of some of the Phase 1 actors. And Robert Downey Jr seems the most likely candidate to step down. By then he'll have been playing Stark for 11 years. So does this mean Iron Man will die in Avengers 4? If so, where does that leave Peter? Jon Watts' Spider-Man 2 is scheduled for release in 2019, shortly after the fourth Avengers film. If Stark does die, maybe then we'll get the whole guilt/responsibility angle that we didn't get in Homecoming. Stark's death could in effect serve the same function Uncle Ben's death served in the comics.

If Stark is grooming Peter to be his replacement, then Marvel is probably grooming Holland to be Downey's replacement. And if the fan theories are true, we'll eventually see Peter step up to claim Iron Man's legacy as the leader of the Avengers. In a recent episode of Kevin Smith's podcast, he speculated Peter would end up becoming the new Iron Man. I think it's more likely he'll become Iron Spider than Iron Man, but the basic idea of Peter donning the hardware Stark bequeaths him sounds feasible.

Since they alluded to the existence of Miles Morales in Homecoming, does that mean Peter will pass the mantle to another at the end of his solo trilogy? Upon graduating from high school in the third film, will he relinquish the role of Spider-Man, accept Stark's legacy and become Iron Spider to lead the Avengers throughout Phases 4 and 5? And if he does pass the torch to Miles, will they actually give the new Spidey his own solo films or just use him as a supporting character in the Avengers? Or is all of this fan theory nonsense that'll never come to pass?

[riddler]

See I didn't get that at all. Let's put aside our love for Michael Keaton for a second and just look at his character Adrian Toomes. I think they just gave him a motive. Right from the start they have him lose his contract likely due to there being ALIEN implications and he handles it by ripping off alien tech, making weapons out of it and selling it to criminals on the black market. All they did was give just enough to give the character a motive to do the bad things he does and give him enough screentime to tell his side of the story. He can claim he did it for his family all he wants but he went far beyond financially supporting them and knew he was risking automatically becoming a bad father and husband by breaking the law. Him becoming the Vulture was nothing more than to help his criminal acts. His turn to the life of crime was not justifiable and I don't think the movie implies this.

I love the fact that this is the first spidey film in which the villain ISN'T sympathetic in any way. The only time Toomes seems to be a decent guy is the first minute of the film until his crew gets shut down. He commits his first heinous act before the scene is over. He may do nice things during the film especially around his family but he remains a bad guy entirely through the film. The only reason we weren't cheering harder for Spidey to destroy him was because of how much we were enjoying watching Michael Keaton do what he was put on this planet to do.

It's late, but seperating the character from the actor and his/her performance can be a tricky thing, since one can easily influence the other when it comes to assessing the entire package, but Keaton as the Vulture is another one of those deals where I appreciate the performance, and the charisma that he brought to the character, even if I didn't really buy the villain's motivations. Where I disagree, is that I think the film sincerely attempts in making Toomes sympathetic, or at the very least, understanding of his plight. He's painted as something of a "Blue Collar Villain" from the jump, just trying to get by and remain under the radar (which must be a 24/7 job in itself with the goons he's hired), then we see him kill the 1st Shocker, but immediately following that, we see him say that killing the guy wasn't his intention at all. Then we have scenes where we see where Toomes lives, and it's obvious he's not just 'getting by' (which is ok, since villains in comic book movies being hypocrites isn't exactly new), to Toomes even sparing Parker's life after he's figured out his secret just in order to give him a final chance to stay out of his way, and show his daughter a good time at the dance. Then at last, let's not forget that he's also shown not ratting Spidey's secret ID out to Mac Gargan who's looking for revenge, and questioning him about the rumor he's heard by the time the end credits start to roll either.

But again the movie has him do bad things right from the start. He didn't HAVE to break the law and exploit humanity's supposed first encounter with aliens to sell weapons on the black market, that was the life he chose. So he lost a contract, 8 years later he became a full on criminal risking prison time to the detriment of his family. I'm sure he cared about his wife and daughter but  it's not as if he had no other options aside from crime.


With respect to the end scene, my initial thoughts were that Toomes wants to take out Peter himself and wont give him up. A secondary reason could be that if Peter spends time with Liz, he'd be putting Liz in danger by tipping off Gargan that Peter is Spider-man. Should Toomes get out, he can better ensure that Spider-man get taken out in a way that doesn't get Liz caught in the crosshairs.

You know something we can hang our hats on towards Bale/Nolan fans; their Batman said he might live long enough to be a villain, our Batman did it with aplomb.

[The Dark Knight]

On the subject of the MCU Spider-Man, it seems Marvel has retroactively made Iron Man 2 his debut film. Remember the scene with the kid in the Iron Man mask (played by Jon Favreau's son)? Well Tom Holland, Jon Watts and Kevin Feige have all confirmed that kid is Peter Parker. Seriously, this is now canon.

Tony Stark in Iron Man 2: "Nice work, kid."

Tony Stark in Civil War: "Nice job, kid."

I'm not seeing the film, but I have to say that's.....pathetic.