Ghostbusters trailer *Brand New* (2016)

[riddler]

Britain should leave for many good reasons. Hopefully it happens. I won't say any more, but given others had their say, I've added my two cents in as well.

What reasons?

Since you're American and won't be affected if Britain leaves the EU, I'm curious to know why we should take your advice.  Explain yourself.

And where are you getting your 'knowledge' and 'facts' from on this topic from?

From a Canadian's perspective (and we are probably closer to the UK than the United States are in many facets including similar political systems) it seems the popular opinion here for Britain to remain part of the EU. I actually wonder aloud how much the upcoming US election could  impact that decision. Trump has so much distain world wide that many countries are preparing for world war three as though it is a realistic possibility if he gets in.

[johnnygobbs]

From a Canadian's perspective (and we are probably closer to the UK than the United States are in many facets including similar political systems) it seems the popular opinion here for Britain to remain part of the EU. I actually wonder aloud how much the upcoming US election could  impact that decision. Trump has so much distain world wide that many countries are preparing for world war three as though it is a realistic possibility if he gets in.

I'm going to refrain from saying anything about Trump, since I know I've caused 'offence' before for voicing an opinion on the man, but I will say that I am concerned about the reckless world we're all potentially heading towards.

But I am curious, what do you mean when you suggest that the US election might factor in how the UK votes on Thursday?  I'm not really sure how significantly it will play on voters' minds.

[riddler]

From a Canadian's perspective (and we are probably closer to the UK than the United States are in many facets including similar political systems) it seems the popular opinion here for Britain to remain part of the EU. I actually wonder aloud how much the upcoming US election could  impact that decision. Trump has so much distain world wide that many countries are preparing for world war three as though it is a realistic possibility if he gets in.

I'm going to refrain from saying anything about Trump, since I know I've caused 'offence' before for voicing an opinion on the man, but I will say that I am concerned about the reckless world we're all potentially heading towards.

But I am curious, what do you mean when you suggest that the US election might factor in how the UK votes on Thursday?  I'm not really sure how significantly it will play on voters' minds.

I think the thing that every country should and probably is thinking right now is "If there were a War, who would our allies be?" People joke about it but it's not a coincidence that 9/11 happened within months of Bush and Cheney taking office and Trump is regarded even lower than Bush on two key fronts; he seems far less intelligence and far more reckless. The probability of a third world war happening this decade increases heavily if Trump wins and that should be in the back of every world leader's minds.

[The Joker]

Since you're American and won't be affected if Britain leaves the EU, I'm curious to know why we should take your advice.  Explain yourself.

Personally, I'm way more curious as to why Obama is taking it upon himself to pressure Britain to remain in the European Union? Quite frankly, it's not Obama's place to say one way or the other, and thus should have kept his nose out of it. It's Britain's decision, and theirs alone. I mean, I know he literally cannot help himself in interjecting himself into various topics, while remaining creepily silent on others, but oh well.

I think the thing that every country should and probably is thinking right now is "If there were a War, who would our allies be?" People joke about it but it's not a coincidence that 9/11 happened within months of Bush and Cheney taking office and Trump is regarded even lower than Bush on two key fronts; he seems far less intelligence and far more reckless. The probability of a third world war happening this decade increases heavily if Trump wins and that should be in the back of every world leader's minds.

It's funny you mention allies, cause I guess the United States could scratch long-time ally, Israel, off the list, and considering all the disrespect shown during Obama's tenure, who could blame them? Russia? China? Probably not. Maybe Kim Jong Un and Vladimir Putin just likes giving the middle finger to Obama, but yeah, considering both have shown to have no qualms in openly becoming more and more anti-american in recent years, you certainly have your answer there. I really have no desire to sit here and get into conspiracies about 9/11, but if we're going to lay what happened to the WTC on that horrible day completely at Bush's feet, who I am also not a fan of, then it's also fair to say that Bill Clinton was a inept clusterF in his continued decisions to pass on taking out Osama Bin Laden. Which goes back as far as 1998.

With Trump, I'm not a fan of everything he says, and outright disagree with some comments of his, and he's certainly brash in his personality, but I can't say I'm buying into the talking points of him being some sort of unintelligent, reckless, future war monger. It's unfortunately just not consistent with his past in business dealings which has proven him to be fairly astute, and even savvy to some extent. It's such an obvious thing to say but becoming successful is one thing, remaining successful is another, and I would think that being counseled by partners/employees is a typical aspect in his profession, rather than the idea of him shooting from the hip day-to-day with a volatile temper. Which is laughable. Course, when does consistency mean anything? I mean, ISIS is on it's heels and their presence and influence poses the minimalist of threats, right? 

I'm sure the CIA would agree.

[JokerMeThis]

Unfortunately I fear that World War III is inevitable regardless of who the president is. What keeps me up at night is my anxiety that westerners might be too busy hating themselves to unite together and confront the threat. I wish we could once again see ourselves as the good guys in this world. Are we more terrified of being politically incorrect than of the destruction of our civilization?

[johnnygobbs]

Personally, I'm way more curious as to why Obama is taking it upon himself to pressure Britain to remain in the European Union? Quite frankly, it's not Obama's place to say one way or the other, and thus should have kept his nose out of it. It's Britain's decision, and theirs alone. I mean, I know he literally cannot help himself in interjecting himself into various topics, while remaining creepily silent on others, but oh well.

I don't think anyone should be primarily making their decision this Thursday on the basis of what any US politicians and commentators say.  Likewise, I would not expect any US citizen to be taking too much note of what any of us in the UK opine with respect to the November presidential election.

That said, Obama is entirely right to state his reasonably held belief that were the UK to leave the EU, the Brits would be 'at the back of the queue' with respect to any trade negotiations.  It would be wrong of him to withhold such a reasonably held belief.  He's not simply stating his own personal opinion on what is the right or wrong decision; he's stating a belief based on facts, experience and logic, as to what will, or at least most likely will, occur if the UK leaves.

[The Joker]

I don't think anyone should be primarily making their decision this Thursday on the basis of what any US politicians and commentators say.  Likewise, I would not expect any US citizen to be taking too much note of what any of us in the UK opine with respect to the November presidential election.

That we can agree on, but what was the point of any united states politician, let alone Obama chiming in? Other than attempting to influence the vote in some fashion. Perhaps another beer summit is in order?

That said, Obama is entirely right to state his reasonably held belief that were the UK to leave the EU, the Brits would be 'at the back of the queue' with respect to any trade negotiations.  It would be wrong of him to withhold such a reasonably held belief.  He's not simply stating his own personal opinion on what is the right or wrong decision; he's stating a belief based on facts, experience and logic, as to what will, or at least most likely will, occur if the UK leaves.

I'll once again refrain in saying that it's none of Obama's business, and that Brits are not only intelligent, but are perfectly capable in forming their own conclusions, and decisions when it comes to the said upcoming vote. I'm not going to sit here like a politician and claim to know what "I" think is personally best for another country, but from what I understand, there are definite reasons why such a vote is taking place for the people of Great Britain to begin with, and some of it has to do with increased national defense security, and no longer having to acquiesce to EU in the area of Britain's national defense. Which is pretty important in this day and age. I get that Obama is in the process of a free trade agreement with the EU and with Britain out, it would complicate matters very much, which explains his eagerness to chime in with his opinion, but once again ... butt out and let the people of Great Britain decide what's best for them.

[JokerMeThis]

I believe another issue British people who support their nation leaving the EU are concerned about is immigration. Many may believe there's to much of it and that the immigrants aren't properly assimilating. Many Europeans and Americans are understandably concerned about this issue because of terrorism, jobs and other factors.

[johnnygobbs]

No offence The Joker but I'm not sure where you are getting your information from.  At no point during the endless and rigorous EU debate has the national defence budget been an issue for the 'Leave' side of the campaign.  If the US news or certain politicians are reporting this to be a major issue, then I am afraid to inform you, they are misrepresenting the truth.

If anything the UK's security will be at greater risk if it leaves the EU.  As part of the EU, there is a European Arrest Warrant that makes it possible for the UK to cooperate with police and security forces across European borders to apprehend criminals.  Moreover, terrorism is a problem that can best be solved through cooperation with European allies.

There has been discussion from the 'Leave' side about increased resources for the NHS if we were to leave the EU (although the figures they've cited have been exposed as a sham), but nothing whatsoever about increased defence spending.  Once again, speaking as a Brit, I am curious to know where you're getting your information from and what lies are being reported across the Atlantic in order for you to be under this impression.

And whilst JokerMeThis is entirely right to state that immigration is the main issue for the 'Leave' campaign, and clearly that issue is partly related to security concerns, mostly the issue of jobs and resources (including school places and NHS waiting times) seem to be cited for tackling EU immigration.  What this all fails to account for however, is that by leaving the EU, the UK will suffer a significant loss in trade and global investment, all of which costs jobs.  As Obama (rightly IMHO) explained, any trade treaty that already exists between the EU and US would have to be renegotiated, and that will take time.  Whilst it may not be Obama, or for that matter Trump's, place to tell the UK how to vote, Obama is entirely right to reasonably explain the cold hard facts with respect to what will, or at least most probably will, occur if the UK does decide to leave.  We're entitled to have that information, and I am grateful to Obama for imparting it.  He would be irresponsible not to.

Finally, assuming security is the biggest issue on everyone's mind, whether they are American or European, bear in mind that one of the few international leaders who will be most rubbing his hands with glee if the UK were to leave the EU and thus possibly prompt a gradual domino effect across the EU of other countries leaving, is Vladimir Putin.  A divided and weaker Europe allows him to further stretch his military might across Eastern Europe, including the Crimea, unabated.  It also allows him to continue funding despots like Assad in Syria, which is turn has contributed to the rise in recruitment for opposing terrorist groups like ISIS. 

Surely the threat posed by Russia should be at the forefront of our minds and I despair that the same people who would have once have talked tough on the USSR, are now seemingly cosying up to Putin, a leader who openly speaks of recapturing Russia's glory days under the old regime, and contemptuously of people like Gorbachev who worked with Reagan to end US-USSR hostilities.

[The Joker]

Ok ......

After 9/11, the Bush administration negotiated very tough agreements to place an ABM system in Poland and the Czech Republic.  Their leaders expended much political capital, and in doing so, found themselves against a rising chorus of Leftists in those countries.  That is the deal that Obama scrapped soon after being elected.  Yet today, the threat of missile attacks from Iran are greater than they were after 9/11.  Sure, they may not have a nuclear warhead, but does that make them no less dangerous?

That is why many of the supporters of leaving the EU in Britain note that in doing so, will increase security for Great Britain in two ways.  First, they would not have to acquiesce to EU demands and policy in the area of national defense.  This would likely bring US-British security relationships even closer than anything they could achieve while in the EU.  Second, they would not have to adhere to EU guidelines, mandates and quotas over immigration or refugees. Which is what JokerMeThis was referring to. That is, they-Great Britain, not the EU, would be responsible for their borders.

Speaking of borders, cause it kinda goes without saying, even though the Obama administration downplays acts of terrorism as "workplace violence" or whatever else that can be imagined, the biggest international threat right now is not completion of a free trade agreement with Europe.  It is radical Islamic terrorism.  Many British intelligence officials actually support Britain leaving the EU. Arguing that other countries are not serious about confronting the very real threats now played out three times in less than two years.  We have already seen the results of a lack of intelligence sharing between Holland, Belgium, France and Turkey. It's a serious threat, see said examples, and should never be taken lightly and/or downplayed.

Both sides of the vote have valid points and criticisms as it relates to the upcoming vote. Which is visibly in response to growing sentiment in Britain that has been under the surface for a generation now. I'm sure you can appreciate that fact.

As it relates to Obama hoping to effect the vote in Great Britain, it's no secret that the United States are in the process of negotiating a free trade agreement with the EU and with Britain out, it would complicate matters very much.  Obama has actually told Great Britain that it would lose influence. Even to the extent of having his chief trade negotiator informing his British counterparts that the US is not interested in making trade agreements with individual countries and intimated British goods could be subject to hefty tariffs. Fortunately, because of history, Great Britain ties to America run deeper than British ties to continental Europe.  For this reason, both sides in the British EU debate likely realize that a weakened lame duck President like Obama deciding to take it upon himself to chime in and issue a feeble ultimatum towards another country's right to vote on said topic is for naught. If anything, his comments may very well accomplish a backlash with undecided voters and cries of Yankee interference.