Is Batman 89 being forgotten?

Started by eledoremassis02, Tue, 19 Jan 2016, 01:23

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Tue, 19 Jan 2016, 01:23 Last Edit: Tue, 19 Jan 2016, 20:41 by eledoremassis02
Sorry for two threads but I was originally going to add this to my "is this film getting devalued" thread but I felt it deserved it's own.

The other day at the supermarket, the checkout boy noticed my mom wearing a Batman shirt and asked her who the best Batman was. She answered "Michael Keaton" and he seemed stunned because I'd assume he was thinking "Bale or Affleck". He then replied "To me it's Bale, I've only seen that other one once". I've also seen a lot of people (even my age *26*) who have never seen the film. While I don't understand how it's possible it always catches me off guard. These are people who are big into comic films.

This has to be one of the most important comic films next to Super-man and the original Spider-Man (which is slowly becoming the new 89 Batman) and it makes me sad that it seems this movie is slowly being forgotten because newer adaptations exist. Even pre-internet and 89 Batmania brought a renaissance of the 66 shows, heck Dark Knigh and Rises brought interest in the 66 Batman. The only bump in 89 was when Birdman came out.

What do you think, have you noticed this? Do you think it will get worse when Batman vs. Superman comes out?

I can't say for sure, Most younger people aren't big on superheroes in Romania where I am from.

The older ones that watched the 1989 Batman or especially the 1976 Superman back in the day still remember them fondly. And the Tobey Maguire Spider-Man was quite popular too but that's another tale.

Some might have seen the Dark Knight and Batman Begins but aren't huge fans otherwise, and even fewer have seen the 90's Batman films. I think we all saw the cartoons but some may have moved on.

There are more enthusiast comic book movie fans too but a minority. Some prefer Nolan Batman, some prefer Burton, and most like to pick on Schumacher, usually the Nolan fans, tastes differ as always.

If Batman '89 is being forgotten that makes me feel sad and old. :(

When I went to see the new Star Wars the other day a kid was in front of me with his parents talking about Batman films (not surprisingly those bloody irritating Nolan ones, ugh!). He proclaimed the "one with Heath Ledger" as....(drum roll!!)...."the second Batman film"......Of course I wanted to politely tap the little guy on the shoulder (or is it smack him on the head? lol) and point out that a certain Burton picture will ALWAYS have the honor of being proclaimed as "Batman 2".

But the little guy probably hasn't been introduced to them yet. You can't quite blame kids. This is "their" Batman era right now and like it or not their Batman is going to be either Bale or Affleck. We in our hearts know they are quite wrong to do so of course but we must respect their introduction. Bless. I think though you guys are getting a little overly naive. I happen to know a friend of my dad who has a kid into Batman and he hasn't yet seen a single Batman movie. Not one. Yet he loves the new animated series. I also know of other kids who began with Bale but have had the brain to go backwards and discover a whole other series of film's from the past. In some cases their now loving the Burton pictures more.

The mega popularity of the esteemed Nolan pictures is also quite over the top. It's a brutal silly war of comic nerds after all who need to shout loudest for their precious Nolan films to forever rule supreme. All I will say is that each and every Burton Hot Toys item sold like lightning in my local comic stores whereas Bale Batman product remains something of a self warmer. Something's clearly still appealing. Adam West's Batman rose from the ashes of cruel disgrace some years ago. Who would have thought? Keaton's time will come around again. No Batman movie concept (Dark Knight or otherwise) rules entirely constant forever.

Quote
I've also seen a lot of people (even my age *16*) who have never seen the film.

I think that answers your question right there. But I think the real question is: Is Batman 89 being neglected in favour of new film interpretations?

I think that younger people might not have watched the Burton films because anything that comes out recently is taken first priority. For all we know, there may be younger generations now aren't taking any notice to Christopher Reeve's Superman, and may watch MOS instead. Or Tobey Maguire's Spider-Man gets further left behind in favour of Marvel's new take in a few years from now. It seems cyclical to me.

Otherwise, I don't believe B89 nor Batman Returns are being forgotten at all. If that were the case, you wouldn't find articles on the net practically giving testimonials to Burton and Keaton's legacy to the franchise.

Quote from: Cobblepot4Mayor on Tue, 19 Jan  2016, 05:00
It's a brutal silly war of comic nerds after all who need to shout loudest for their precious Nolan films to forever rule supreme.

Let's forget whether we prefer this take on Batman over the other for a moment and remind themselves: all comic book-based movies are different to the comics. They might be inspired or take influences from some storylines, but they still take plenty of liberties. For every moment they get something "right" like Joker falling into a vat of acid to become who he is today, or Joe Chill murdering Bruce's parents, they'll get something "wrong" e.g. Joker murdering Bruce's parents, Ra's al Ghul playing a part in Bruce's destiny to become Batman. Nothing is 100% faithful to the source material. Especially if one interpretation frames himself for crimes he didn't commit and only lasts for a year.

Quote from: Cobblepot4Mayor on Tue, 19 Jan  2016, 05:00
All I will say is that each and every Burton Hot Toys item sold like lightning in my local comic stores whereas Bale Batman product remains something of a self warmer. Something's clearly still appealing. 

Which is absurd as to why they haven't released a Penguin or Catwoman toy yet. They made numerous Batman AND Bruce Wayne collectibles for both Burton and Nolan films, and no doubt we'll see more Dawn of Justice Batman collectibles...but no word of the BR villains? Bloody hell.
QuoteJonathan Nolan: He [Batman] has this one rule, as the Joker says in The Dark Knight. But he does wind up breaking it. Does he break it in the third film?

Christopher Nolan: He breaks it in...

Jonathan Nolan: ...the first two.

Source: http://books.google.com.au/books?id=uwV8rddtKRgC&pg=PR8&dq=But+he+does+wind+up+breaking+it.&hl=en&sa=X&ei

One thing that Bryan Singer's 2006 superhero movie taught us is that Superman- The Movie isn't the classic or the icon that the True Believers wanted us to believe it was. Most people under the age of 30 (at that time) had never even seen it.

In relation to that and to B89, the downside of the proliferation of superhero cinema is that some iterations will come to be overlooked. Keaton was "unforgettable" even in the late early 2000's... but a ton of other superheroes, not least which was Bale's Batman, have reduced his standing significantly.

It's undesirable but also unavoidable.

The other way of looking at it though is that their favorite version of Batman will also be forgotten... and it will probably occur faster than it did for B89. I'm not necessarily in a major rush to forget about Bale... but he's not really my favorite either.

And frankly, B89 is 26 years old.

I'm not saying that as a negative because the film still holds up remarkably well. But it's only really going to be brought up when the franchise is discussed as a whole piece, and if someone decides to rent or download the movie because they feel like revisiting it.

Things aren't truly forgotten. Time just simply moves forward, and everything merges with the great ocean that is cinema. Waiting for people to discover it all for themselves.

Sorry I had to fix my post to fix my age, it's 26 not 16. I'm glad the hot toys are selling well. None of them are selling at my comic shops here..but that may just be the area.

Talking about the bigger picture is what bothers me tho and that's because no one seems to want to talk about the burton films because they either haven't seen it, or find that it hasn't aged well. I think there is loads more to talk about the Burton films because of how subtle they are. Every one seems to just want to talk about Ledger and thats is and I don't really understand that...I think you could talk way more about dent.

I guess it's hard because I feel the Burton films (manly 89) did alot more right as a Batman film then the Nolan films (with the exception of Begins) and it's tough to find anyone interested in them (which is why this forum rocks!)

Quote from: eledoremassis02 on Tue, 19 Jan  2016, 20:45
Talking about the bigger picture is what bothers me tho and that's because no one seems to want to talk about the burton films because they either haven't seen it, or find that it hasn't aged well. I think there is loads more to talk about the Burton films because of how subtle they are. Every one seems to just want to talk about Ledger and thats is and I don't really understand that...I think you could talk way more about dent.

People have their own reasons to like something, and it may not necessarily be the same as what everybody else thinks.

For example, I have a good friend of mine whom I've known for years (he's around the same age as you by the way) say that B89 is his favourite Batman film because Michael Keaton remains his favourite in the role. He describes Keaton as a "an actor who knew how to play a man with a damaged psyche and have that impression that he could be crazy enough to dress as a bat", and he always appreciated Burton's use of Art Deco design to portray Gotham City.

However, he says that he loved TDK because he thought Heath Ledger was the best Joker he's seen, and even goes far to describe it as "Joker's movie". What he means is that version of the Joker was the one who stole the spotlight out of everyone; not necessarily because the story is completely focused on the Joker as the main character.

Now keep in mind: this buddy of mine otherwise does NOT like Bale playing Bruce/Batman, or Nolan's take on the character. He hated BB, and he only liked TDKR because of Bane and Catwoman. Like I said, Ledger's performance completely won him over, despite the fact that he even agrees with a lot of my criticisms about TDK as a story. I respect the guy as a friend, but I never understood his explanations and we used to debate about this quite often (especially because I really didn't think Ledger's interpretation was all it was cracked up to be). Personally, if I thought the plot was subpar, then I tend to think the movie is bad - regardless if I liked one character or the performance.

Of course, I'm not saying that his opinion is indicative to most TDK fans. All I'm saying there are some people who tend to like a bit of both Burton and Nolan for their own personal reasons. It's just that Nolan gets more talked about because it's a more recent interpretation.
QuoteJonathan Nolan: He [Batman] has this one rule, as the Joker says in The Dark Knight. But he does wind up breaking it. Does he break it in the third film?

Christopher Nolan: He breaks it in...

Jonathan Nolan: ...the first two.

Source: http://books.google.com.au/books?id=uwV8rddtKRgC&pg=PR8&dq=But+he+does+wind+up+breaking+it.&hl=en&sa=X&ei

There are some fans here that prefer Batman Returns for DeVito and Pfeiffer, can't really blame them for the second reason, others that prefer Batman 1989 for the story, and Nolan fans as well, for Ledger, for the "gritty realism", or other reasons.

And believe or not, my cousin, who is not a Batman fan much, confessed he liked "the Batman film with Arnold" best.  :)