Has this film become undervalued?

[eledoremassis02]

As of recent I've been hearing how this movie was dark for the 80's but not today and some even said parts of it were "comical" (seeming to forget the joker is suppose to have comical satire) Much of this is because of the recent Nolan films. The problem tho is that with Bales batman, what get the impression he doesn't want to be Batman but Alfred coaches him to be Batman, Fox 90% of the tech work and Batman and he's not even Batman for that long.

89 still has to be on of the Darkest Batman movies made. They duality of Batman and Bruce Wayne is clearly there (even if his Bruce Wayne isn't what we're used to) as well as the physiological effects on seeing you're parents get murdered and the desire to prevent. A lot is said without saying it and I think maybe that might be the problem here?


What do you think? I know this is a mostly Burton based form but I feel it's really the only place to have a balanced and intellectual conversation in regards to what could become Burton vs. Nolan

[Edd Grayson]

Batman '89 is one of the few movies you can say I was and am crazy about: I've watched the whole movie maybe more than 10 times and particular scenes dozens of times. I strongly disagree with those who try to put it down for being "cheesy" or other very subjective claims they make.

If I had not seen the movie, I probably wouldn't have seen Batman Returns or Batman Forever either,  or the 60's show and film, and without all that I wouldn't have held Batman in such a high regard, character and franchise.

[eledoremassis02]

Batman '89 is one of the few movies you can say I was and am crazy about: I've watched the whole movie maybe more than 10 times and particular scenes dozens of times. I strongly disagree with those who try to put it down for being "cheesy" or other very subjective claims they make.

If I had not seen the movie, I probably wouldn't have seen Batman Returns or Batman Forever either,  or the 60's show and film, and without all that I wouldn't have held Batman in such a high regard, character and franchise.

Me too. I've seen this film hundreds of times. When I was a child I must have watched this and returns on almost a daily basis breaking my VHS tape. It always bothers me when people call it comical or not dark because I feel they are missing the point. I read most people have a hard time watching movies older than 10 years and it baffles me.

[The Laughing Fish]

As of recent I've been hearing how this movie was dark for the 80's but not today and some even said parts of it were "comical" (seeming to forget the joker is suppose to have comical satire) Much of this is because of the recent Nolan films. The problem tho is that with Bales batman, what get the impression he doesn't want to be Batman but Alfred coaches him to be Batman, Fox 90% of the tech work and Batman and he's not even Batman for that long.

Yeah that was always one of my biggest issues with Nolan's films. Instead of Batman using his personal tragedy as a motivation to spend his whole life training himself to fight crime, he only begins to entertain the idea thanks to a series of lucky circumstances:

• He was deprived of the chance to kill Joe Chill, and then he only fully realises how corrupt Gotham is thanks to Rachel.
• He only begins to travel around the world in a misguided attempt to learn how the criminal mind works because Falcone taunted him that it's a world he'll never understand.
• He was left to rot in a prison until he meets Ra's al Ghul, who then trains Bruce.
• He meets Fox who gives him all the equipment he needs to go out on duty.

And that's just in the first movie. Seriously, does any of this sound like Batman to you? I wouldn't mind so much if he later becomes more independent as the Batman we're familiar and in love with, but it didn't happen.

What I've noticed is those who mock the black comedy in B89 are normally against the humour in Adam West's TV show too. In fact, they don't seem to be fond comic films having any humour at all.

89 still has to be on of the Darkest Batman movies made. They duality of Batman and Bruce Wayne is clearly there (even if his Bruce Wayne isn't what we're used to) as well as the physiological effects on seeing you're parents get murdered and the desire to prevent. A lot is said without saying it and I think maybe that might be the problem here?

I think what most people aren't used to is watching a movie where the superhero's story is treated as a mystery unfolding over time. The origin story is a compulsory part of superheroes on film, but B89 goes against this by acting as if the audience really didn't know about Bruce's past.

Frankly though, I much prefer this as opposed of a long winded backstory for Batman. We see that his parents' murders scarred him, and he thinks the only way with having a life is becoming this crime fighter to combat this imperfect world. Not even getting together with Vicki Vale or living the rich life as millionaire can bring him to move past his sadness.

Of course, there will be people who are either in favour or against the idea of Joker murdering the Waynes, but that's up to your personal opinion.

[The Dark Knight]

At the core the story for Batman is simple. His parents are killed, he trains hard and later dons the cape and cowl. Expanding on the simple doesn't make it better. It runs the risk of being complicated or compromised. Especially if the gaps you fill in aren't to your liking, ala the issues of concern for TLF above.

To me, Batman is Bruce Wayne's true personality and Bruce Wayne is merely the face he uses during the day. While he's waiting to resume his nocturnal activities. Burton managed to convey that in both of his films, and that was enough for me. He fought crime because "no one else can." To him, it all makes sense. By giving the audience these drip feed details it also allows them to paint the rest of the canvass themselves. It allows a secretive character like Batman some background without going overboard.

[Grissom]

Wayne is the mask, not Batman. I think filmmakers who are doing or are going to do superhero film projects, need to take a look back at Batman '89. The rhythm of the story, the memorable characters, the kinetic action and fantastic finale are just a few things that make Batman a modern classic, not to mention the art direction, score and costume design.

You can make a dark and brooding superhero film, Batman was dark, brooding and intense but it was still a whole lotta fun!!!

[Dagenspear]

Yeah that was always one of my biggest issues with Nolan's films. Instead of Batman using his personal tragedy as a motivation to spend his whole life training himself to fight crime, he only begins to entertain the idea thanks to a series of lucky circumstances:

• He was deprived of the chance to kill Joe Chill, and then he only fully realises how corrupt Gotham is thanks to Rachel.
• He only begins to travel around the world in a misguided attempt to learn how the criminal mind works because Falcone taunted him that it's a world he'll never understand.
• He was left to rot in a prison until he meets Ra's al Ghul, who then trains Bruce.
• He meets Fox who gives him all the equipment he needs to go out on duty.

And that's just in the first movie. Seriously, does any of this sound like Batman to you? I wouldn't mind so much if he later becomes more independent as the Batman we're familiar and in love with, but it didn't happen.

It sounds like a version of Batman. Everything that happens in movies is due to a string of lucky circumstances. Peter becomes Spider-Man because of a string of circumstances. Bruce and the Joker's rivalry in Batman 89 happens because of a string of circumstances. It's just something that happens in movies. A big bust just happens to happen during the night of Bruce's casino charity event and Gordon just happens to be told about it in front of a camera Bruce has set up in his house, which leads to Bruce dropping Jack into the chemicals, who just happens to not only become a supervillain because of this, but he also falls for Vicky, who Bruce is dating and just happens to be the murderer of Bruce's parents. It's all a string of crazy coincidences tied together. But Bruce in Batman Begins has already had training before he's trained by Ra's.

What I've noticed is those who mock the black comedy in B89 are normally against the humour in Adam West's TV show too. In fact, they don't seem to be fond comic films having any humour at all.

Being someone who isn't fond of the black comedy of the Burton films, I can say that I good naturedly poke fun at the 66 TV series and like the Schumacher Batman films' ridiculousness as well. It's all in good fun.

God bless you! God bless everyone!