Captain America: Civil War

[The Laughing Fish]

Don't get me started on Star Trek Into Darkness. What a letdown.

Oh brother. I tend to tune out online critics these days as much as I do alot of the so-called political analysts, but saying Civil War is the worst film in the MCU is really coming across like he's trying too hard to be a attention whore. Atleast he's bright enough in his review to throw in not-so-valid reasons (like the Black Panther one you pointed out), along with actual valid criticisms in order to prolong the video's run time. I guess such a approach will garner him more views, but his ignorance towards problems with other MCU films like the Thor films, the Iron Man sequels, or the Avengers follow-up leaves alot to be desired.

I totally understand, I've seen my share of online commentators who have strong opinions of certain films while blatantly overlooking the faults in others. There was this one particular blogger who boldly claimed "if you think The Dark Knight Rises was a good movie, chances are you're probably a moron" because he hated the movie's politics, the clumsy action, the plot holes, underwhelming plot twists and Bale's acting...and yet, he thought The Dark Knight was fantastic. Talk about the pot calling the kettle black. 

Anyway, another complaint some people had about BvS was the fight between Batman and Superman would never have happened if Superman tried harder in telling Batman that Lex was setting up both of them to kill each other. Yet in Civil War, Cap tells Iron Man and company about Zemo framing Bucky and setting everybody up against each other at the start of the airport fight, yet nobody listens.

As you say, one movie gets derided for having heroes unwilling to cooperate, yet the other gets praised for doing the same thing.

[The Laughing Fish]

I can't remember if this was mentioned earlier on in this thread, but when Civil War came out nearly three years ago, the Russo brothers acknowledged the film existed because of BvS. Which isn't surprising to many of you, myself included, because of the obvious similarities both movies share.

Source: https://www.businessinsider.com/batman-v-superman-captain-america-civil-war-influence-2016-4/?r=AU&IR=T

Some things about this article irks me though.

Although the "Captain America" franchise had been very successful, Joe and Anthony anticipated that at some point audiences would tire of the Marvel formula:

"Our pitch to [Marvel] was: 'People will tell you they love chocolate ice cream — until you give it to them five days a week. It's time to give them some rainbow sherbet,'" he explained. "[Marvel Studios president Kevin Feige] is a maverick and he's very sensitive to how people are responding to his content. He said he thought we might be right."

After the announcement of "Batman v Superman," which began as a straight-forward "Man of Steel" sequel and later became a crossover tentpole with multiple heroes, Feige agreed to a new direction for "Captain America" that would break from tradition.

Russo told THR the latest in the "Captain America" series "deconstructs the superhero genre," and critics are applauding the film's clear focus on both the emotional arcs of its heroes and the larger political themes of freedom and accountability. This contrasts the response to "Batman v Superman," which critics said focused too heavily on convoluted philosophical implications and not on the characters.

A couple of things:

They talk about changing the Marvel formula, but if anything, Civil War cemented it even further; specifically that goddamn overrated airport scene. The biggest thing people were raving about this movie wasn't the themes or even the actual conflict between the characters. The most talked about part was the rather pointless infighting at the airport because of the quips. I did enjoy watching that scene the first time, but it gets old after repeated viewings. I have no doubt the positive reaction to that scene gave Disney the confidence to inject more dumbed down comedy for the majority of Phase 3, which got progressively worse in Homecoming, GOTG2 and Infinity War. What annoys me is for all the talk about the accountability and Sokovia Accords, it's soon forgotten for the remainder of Phase 3. You could say the plot point ended as soon as Tony Stark saw its negative impact when he saw pro-Cap Avengers contingent imprisoned at the Raft, but I find that to be an anticlimax.

I don't buy the praise over Civil War's supposed "emotional" arcs, apart from Black Panther. The movie didn't have the same emotional weight as it did with The First Avenger or The Winter Soldier. Compare that to Steve Rogers sacrificing himself to crash Red Skull's ship into the arctic as he says farewell to Peggy Carter. Or Steve visiting an elderly Peggy suffering from Alzhemier's. Or his standoff with Bucky to help him snap out of his brainwashing. Can you honestly tell me anything in Civil War has a scene as powerful as those moments? I thought Cap's letter in the end was a cop out and undermined the violent fight between him and Stark near the end.

It never made any sense to me how anybody could say Civil War is the best Cap movie, let alone the best MCU movie. If you take Black Panther out of the picture, it's so-so. With that said, it's better than Infinity War, which in my opinion, is a piece of crap. The Winter Solider is still the best MCU movie the Russo brothers have ever made. Apart from that, they're overrated.

As for the critical consensus that BvS "focused too heavily on convoluted philosophical implications and not on the characters"?



Love or hate the movie, you have to be outright blind if you thought it didn't focus on the characters. I seriously wonder if these critics even bothered to watch the movies they're reviewing. They give me the impression of cheerleading for a cause or for some director than adequately evaluating something on merit.

[thecolorsblend]

If quality film criticism ever existed (which I'm skeptical of), it's definitely taken a nosedive in the past decade or two. These days, film critics wear their groupthink on their sleeves. Brag about it, even.

It kind of torques me off when somebody dismisses negative criticism of something with "You just don't get it". But in the case of BVS, yeah, I think there's a lot to that idea. The knives were out for Snyder and Affleck from the word "Go". Marvel was the immediate beneficiary of that (and to be fair, there are logical comparisons to be made between CACW and BVS) but what the negative critical reaction to BVS mostly came down to is Snyder and Affleck.

Oh well. It's done. And I can take comfort in the fact that least BVS looks like A REAL FILM. Sometimes, it's the small things.

[Dagenspear]

A couple of things:

They talk about changing the Marvel formula, but if anything, Civil War cemented it even further; specifically that goddamn overrated airport scene. The biggest thing people were raving about this movie wasn't the themes or even the actual conflict between the characters. The most talked about part was the rather pointless infighting at the airport because of the quips. I did enjoy watching that scene the first time, but it gets old after repeated viewings. I have no doubt the positive reaction to that scene gave Disney the confidence to inject more dumbed down comedy for the majority of Phase 3, which got progressively worse in Homecoming, GOTG2 and Infinity War. What annoys me is for all the talk about the accountability and Sokovia Accords, it's soon forgotten for the remainder of Phase 3. You could say the plot point ended as soon as Tony Stark saw its negative impact when he saw pro-Cap Avengers contingent imprisoned at the Raft, but I find that to be an anticlimax.

I don't buy the praise over Civil War's supposed "emotional" arcs, apart from Black Panther. The movie didn't have the same emotional weight as it did with The First Avenger or The Winter Soldier. Compare that to Steve Rogers sacrificing himself to crash Red Skull's ship into the arctic as he says farewell to Peggy Carter. Or Steve visiting an elderly Peggy suffering from Alzhemier's. Or his standoff with Bucky to help him snap out of his brainwashing. Can you honestly tell me anything in Civil War has a scene as powerful as those moments? I thought Cap's letter in the end was a cop out and undermined the violent fight between him and Stark near the end.

Cap wasn't fighting Tony out of hatred. Why wouldn't he try to patch up their relationship? Tony would never operate under complete control of the government. He thinks they should be held accountable out of guilt.

While I can agree that fight was fairly light in comparison to the tone of the movie, I think based on the situation it wouldn't have been appropriate for it to be harsher and was in character generally. They're not fighting out of hatred. Tony, in his mind, is doing this for the good of the team, to keep them together. Cap is fighting to be able to stop what he think Zemo's plan is. I agree TWS is better than CW. But I don't think TFA has more emotional weight than CW.

And I can agree, there were too many not as good jokes in GOTG2, I don't think the comedy was much different than GOTG1 and I think can be argued it can get darker than 1 too. I don't see how the comedy in IW was anymore dumbed down than GOTG1 and think that the comedy was acceptably in character mostly.

Anyway, another complaint some people had about BvS was the fight between Batman and Superman would never have happened if Superman tried harder in telling Batman that Lex was setting up both of them to kill each other. Yet in Civil War, Cap tells Iron Man and company about Zemo framing Bucky and setting everybody up against each other at the start of the airport fight, yet nobody listens.

As you say, one movie gets derided for having heroes unwilling to cooperate, yet the other gets praised for doing the same thing.

That's not the same thing.

[thecolorsblend]

As you say, one movie gets derided for having heroes unwilling to cooperate, yet the other gets praised for doing the same thing.

That's not the same thing.

So that must mean that they're total opposites, right?

[The Laughing Fish]

So that must mean that they're total opposites, right?

Colors, don't waste your time. Nothing you say will knock any sense to him.

[Dagenspear]

So that must mean that they're total opposites, right?

It doesn't have to be for some to think it's better or worse.

Colors, don't waste your time. Nothing you say will knock any sense to him.

Why do you put someone down over them disagreeing with you about a movie?