Captain America: Civil War

[riddler]

Civil war was my favourite marvel comic storyline so I got super excited when it was announced to happen on the big screen. My one big concern was lack of spider-man. Comparing to the comics is tough, you knew they weren't going to kill off a hero in the film. I would have preferred spider-man to have more of a role although it was tough since this film established the character. It does establish how he avoids letting May know his identity of all costs but this is a major character trait; Spidey above all else does everything he can to conceal his identity hence his confliction in the comics of joining the registration side. The movie doesn't overly touch on this. It's uniqure because prior to spider-man most of the heroes identities were not a secret to to the world.

Nevertheless I thought it was executed well. Black Panther was well portrayed, I enjoyed seeing giant man for the first time. Evans and RDJ showed their chemistry and had some good quips. I almost feel bad for Stark, after his first film, these films have truly been beating up on him emotionally. It would have been nice to have Banner but that would have required quite a bit more development putting him in the same film with Ross as those two clearly have their unresolved issues (likely why they avoid mentioning him for the most part but I was kind of hoping Ross' actions would have been questioned and they weren't).

It's hard to compare Spider-men as this one only had a few scenes. I enjoyed all the spidey films to some extent, I definitely feel Garfield was much better than Maguire; less whiny and more of a smart ass. There was no mention of Uncle Ben, we assume he's dead since that event triggers Parker becoming Spider-man and that is likely what he refers to when he says if he fails to act with his powers when needed then he's at the same fault as the bad guys. I did feel so far Holland captures the smart ass spidey better than his predecessors.

[riddler]

I don't think you can consider it a trilogy. Imagine someone watching the three films without seeing or having any knowledge of the MCU films;

the first film you'd be fine. You may not understand the Howard Stark references and perhaps the ending but they aren't essential to the plot.

The second films presence of SHIELD would be out of place as well as Black Widow and Nick Fury both of whom are established in other films as well as referencing Tony Stark.

The third film is more of an avengers film than a cap film. Yeah the plot centers more around Cap than any other characters but the presence of the other characters fits the overall narrative of the MCU rather than Rogers himself.

There is also the two avenger films in which Cap goes through important character points. 


Now without spoiling anything, where would I rank the films? First off I don't think there's been a bad film in the MCU. They range from excellent to decent in my book.
Just for retrospect I put their IMDB ratings next to them (and their spot on the top 250 if they made it)

excellent
Iron Man 7.9
Avengers 8.1 (#232)
Cap 2 7.8
Cap 3 8.5 (#64)

stellar

Iron Man 3 7.3
Guardians of the Galaxy 8.1 (#238)
Ant-Man 7.4

above average
Avengers 2 7.5
Incredible Hulk 6.8
Iron Man 2 7.0

decent
Thor 7.0
Thor 2 7.1
Captain America 6.8


Many people would probably claim each Cap film is better than the last but the title character is focused on less in each film so could one read that the title character himself is not what is driving the films and that the supporting characters are what makes the sequels better?

[The Joker]

Watched Captain America: Civil War and enjoyed it for the most part.

Not anything stellar by any stretch of the imagination, but enjoyable as a MCU flick.

The following, if you're interested, will contain SPOILERS so be WARNED .... !!!

--

For what I liked about it, Iron Man's arc of continued paranoia since the events of the first Avengers served him well here. It appears as if the more he tries to protect the people around him, the circumstances usually go with them leaving him in some fashion. He seems like the type of character that despite wanting to be Iron Man, eventually wants to build a world that eventually will not need him, where Cap's views seem more geared towards fighting the never ending battle for justice till the very end. It's a contrast that works for the characters, and especially in terms of the film here. With the other newly introduced character's in this universe, I believe they were incorporated pretty well. Black Panther is VERY interesting, alot more than I can honestly say that I was initially expecting, but was pleasantly surprised just how much screen time he had, and I'm now actually looking forward to seeing him in a starring film one day.

Spidey, well, what can I say? He's AMAZING! I'll always hold a special place for Tobey Maguire's Spider-Man in my cold black heart, but Holland's Spidey definitely comes across as the heir apparent to Maguire's Spidey and was ALOT better in my estimation than what we were getting with the two Amazing Spider-Man films. Not that I hated those films, or Garfield (in the costume he was fine, as Parker, ehh ....) they just seemed to really miss the mark in alot of ways. Needless to say, I'm looking forward to Spider-Man: Homecoming, and that's a understatement!

Pacing wise, it's got that over BvS. As it's paced and edited very well for a film that has so many character's. On the other hand, I felt the plot came off as predictable at times, and simply going thru the motions. Can't say I was too big on Crossbones just offing himself as part of a set up. Just seems like a complete waste of a notable Cap villain. I mean, we see the guy survive the entirety of TWS with nothing but pure piss and vinegar. Brock literally would NOT stay down, but in Civil War, he just blows himself sky high the first time he's given a beatdown? Sort of lame, but whatever. *sigh* With Zemo, much like Eisenberg's Lex, I left underwhelmed by this cinematic version. Certainly not to the extent of the whole Mandarian-less fiasco in Iron Man 3, and I found him alot more tolerable than having to sit thru Eisenberg's performance in BvS, but yeah, disappointed nevertheless. As he really could have been anyone to be perfectly honest, an entirely new character even. Does this cinematic depiction of Zemo have an arc that in the grand scheme of things makes sense within the film? Sure. But it's a motivation I've seen alot, and really nothing new. With a character like Zemo, I was unfortunately expecting alot MORE than what we got. Buuuut.... it's the MCU, so being rather disappointed villain-wise makes perfect sense, statistically speaking.

The film, as expected, leaned towards Cap's team alot more thsn it did Iron Man's side. This was a my biggest issue going in and I was essentially half proven right. I wanted an ambiguous conflict, a fight between two sides with equal reasons and convictions, but the movie clearly frames Iron Man as being, ultimately, in the wrong, and he loses all but 3 of his team members by the end. Narratively speaking, that would be the natural conclusion. Cap is the titular character and movies have a boner for heroes who refuse to operate by any sort of authority, but honestly he and everyone who sided with him has made their lives complete crap now. If we're going to look at this in any sort of literal sense, it doesn't matter how well their intentions are, the majority of the world governments are now offically against them. Why? Cap's brainwashed human weapon of a friend? That's what Hawkeye and Ant-Man threw away the ability to see their children for? Interesting.

So what we are left with is that now they are going to be publicly labled as being a group of enhanced individuals who, in addition, have shown a complete unwillingness to comply with authorities and whose only answer to the consequences of that is to fight their way out. Wow, and Snyder/Goyer got flack for something just like that!

My other biggest complaint was the lack of a major character death. For me, It took a lot of the bite out of things. I actually thought Disney/Marvel was actually going to cowboy up, and present us with a major death, as a actual depiction of what a war is. Which is hell (yeah, not so much joking around/snarky banter during actual battles which is common place in MCU would have really been preferred, if even in just THIS movie alone), and with actual War, the loss of life is very much to be expected in the course of such actions. It, and when I'm referring to "IT" I mean a actual major death, didn't have to be Cap, but, and I can only speak for myself, the comic book one shot Civil War: The Confession, made the entire Civil War storyline in the comics very much worth it with that single issue. Similar to how Funeral for a Friend was exceptional following the Death of Superman storyline. With the Confession, it essentially deals with Iron Man privately speaking to Captain America's corpse, and not only expressing regret, and tearful sadness, but also the 'confession' that his actions led to the death of his friend, and that the price was simply not worth it. A very emotional epilgue to the Marvel Civil War 'Event' that, to me, was sorely lacking in this film version. I get why Disney/Marvel went the route they did, as they seem to prefer playing it safe in accessibility for audiences, but I'd rather they made interesting stories than shrewd business decisions. Which is what it came across as.

So yeah, similar to BvS, I didn't think it was perfect by any means (obviously), but I enjoyed it on a MCU level of entertainment. It's fun, it has great fights and visuals, but just lacked that special oomph to make it something REALLY special. Captain America: Civil War actually made me appreciate what WB/DC is doing with their more serious approach, because they give me something totally different and I personally need that because all the Marvel movies kind of blend together. Some alot more than others. I wouldn't say this particular film is the BEST of the BEST when it comes to MCU films (I think CA: TWS is the better movie), but I believe it's most assuredly in the top 5 of their output thus far.

[BatmAngelus]

I'm personally mixed on the whole "someone could've died" debate.

On the one hand, I think the ending would've hit way harder if Rhodey had actually been killed in the fall or Tony had been able to kill Bucky in revenge or both.

Right now, there's still a feeling at the end of Civil War that Cap and Iron Man will find a way to sort things out in the future (with Infinity War). The ending would've been way more devastating if both men's best friends had been killed off and you were left wondering what the hell would happen next with the characters.

But there's the other side of the issue: I think today's storytelling has completely overdone the whole "Major character DIES! You will be SHOCKED." We see it on TV with Game of Thrones and Walking Dead. It's gotten gimmicky.

Even more gimmicky is the "Dead character is actually alive/comes back to life!" Arrow's universe has become notorious for this on TV.

As has the Marvel Cinematic Universe. Loki (in both Thor and Thor 2), Captain America, Agent Coulson, Pepper Potts, Nick Fury, Bucky, Groot, and possibly even Janet Van Dyne (if the hints at the end of Ant-Man are true) have all been "killed off" only to come back again. This is why I'm glad they didn't follow the comics and kill Cap. I just don't think it would've fit his arc in the story and, like how I felt with Superman's death in BvS, I wouldn't buy that he was gone since I know he's coming back in the next team-up and I know that the death doesn't stick in the comics either.

Resurrect enough characters and eventually, you just stop believing anyone's actually dead. And death ceases to mean anything other than shock value.

[johnnygobbs]

[SPOILERS contained]

I don't like the whole 'resurrection' trope that is popular in comic-books, and now comic-book films.  I also agree, having now seen the film, that a major character death would not have been appropriate within the context of Civil War.  Rhodey's near death and subsequent incapacitation is arguably traumatic enough to maintain a seemingly insurmountable chasm between Steve and Tony, compounded to an even greater extent by the former's defence of the man who killed the latter's parents.

That said, it would definitely increase the stakes if, during the imminent 'Avengers: Infinity War' movies, various major characters were finally sacrificed in the battle to take on Thanos.

Although you're right BatmAngelus, to argue that death is a precious currency within comic-book movies, that should not be so carelessly squandered, that understanding also goes side-by-side with the sense that anyone could bite the bullet at any moment and that unless one's super-power is immortality, even 'enhanced' individuals are not immune from the first of Benjamin Franklin's two certainties.

[The Laughing Fish]

*SPOILERS*

I reckon it's best that no hero died in Civil War. I think it would've turned off a lot of people if the Avengers' feuding indirectly got War Machine killed, or Captain America or Iron Man killed each other. If a hero were to die, it's best to keep it as an act of bravery, or die by a villain's hand e.g. Thanos.

[riddler]

While it happens in the comics, I think the filmmakers worry movie audiences wouldn't accept killing off characters and then bringing them back. Once the marvel films start doing that, there's no going back. Every future death will have less meaning if it isn't permanent. I do have a feeling it will happen soon enough. RDJ and Chris evans are entrenched enough with their characters that once they decide not to portray them any further, the characters will need to be written out as recasting isn't an option so I wouldn't be shocked to see it. To be honest if I had to predict I think Cap will be the first avenger to die; they can use the death of captain America story and have Bucky become captain America.

[The Joker]

To be honest if I had to predict I think Cap will be the first avenger to die; they can use the death of captain America story and have Bucky become captain America.

I think that's what alot of people were thinking going into this. That Cap might die, with Bucky taking up the mantle. I personally enjoyed that arc during the Brubaker run in the comics, but as I said before, a major death didn't have to necessarily be Cap, but atleast someone that we have grown familiar with at the very least. In the actual comic book story line, there were casualties, and none of them was Captain America. That happened more or less, as an epilogue to the event. Not within the Mark Millar-written story line. In the actual war, I remember Goliath being one that got killed by the Thor clone-bot, and as a narrative, it raised the stakes, because no hero wanted that, on either sides, but that's the consequences of going to war. It's not always friendly fire, and even that can get you killed.

In the film, no such thing took place, and it just came across as being Disney/Marvel being too safe for my tastes. I don't really care for the whole resurrection argument. In comics, it happens waaaay too frequently, but in the films, it could have been done with a character that's not absolutely vital to Disney/Marvel's plans going forward, in order to display the ramifications of said actions. As it stands, it's fairly run-of-the-mill in terms of how Marvel has trained their audiences. If a character dies, they are expected to return somewhere within the same film they supposedly 'died' in, and that has actually happened. Which as a result has made people jaded on the whole death thing cause it's evident that it most certainly cannot be taken too seriously within the MCU. Which, by the way, is their own doing.

[johnnygobbs]

As much as I adore the MCU, I do agree that it often plays things too safe.  Although the 'kiddie' attacks are unfair and way off the mark, it is also true to say that the MCU films never really delve into truly dark, adult territory.  Skirting around death by refusing to kill-off any of the main characters (at least thus far) is one example of that tendency to resist the slightest darkness, or anything that might potentially 'traumatise' Disney's family audience, as is the decision not to turn Tony into a full-blown alcoholic, as he is in the comic-books.  Considering the trauma he has gone through in the last few films (first, suffering PTSD following the events of The Avengers, then bringing the world close to the brink with Ultron, and finally his bust-up with his fellow Avengers and the discovery of his parents' murderer, as well as his apparent estrangement from Pepper Potts) surely it's about time to approach the whole 'Demon in a Bottle' story arc.

It's those dark, controversial and all-too-human elements (i.e. Tony's alcoholism and Hank Pym's history of domestic violence towards Janet Van Dyne) that make the Marvel comic-book characters so compelling.  They may be super-powered but that doesn't make them flawless or even particularly nice people.

[The Dark Knight]

While it happens in the comics, I think the filmmakers worry movie audiences wouldn't accept killing off characters and then bringing them back. Once the marvel films start doing that, there's no going back. Every future death will have less meaning if it isn't permanent. I do have a feeling it will happen soon enough. RDJ and Chris evans are entrenched enough with their characters that once they decide not to portray them any further, the characters will need to be written out as recasting isn't an option so I wouldn't be shocked to see it. To be honest if I had to predict I think Cap will be the first avenger to die; they can use the death of captain America story and have Bucky become captain America.

To be completely, utterly honest - Civil War didn't affect me in the same way as BvS. When Superman bit the dust, I had a lump in my throat. Especially the first time seeing it. When the 'Beautiful Lie' montage played, I had tears welling in my eyes. When the Superman montage occurred, I was genuinely touched, feeling the weight of the situation. DC is more of my thing, so I admit to being biased in that regard. But I can only share how I felt. And in my opinion, I think the music plays a big role. I'm not a musician, but I know what I like. And I think music is one part which the MCU could improve on. Zimmer hasn't always been my cup of tea, but he brought his A game to Man of Steel and BvS.