Wonder Woman (2017)

[The Laughing Fish]

While I enjoyed Diana's journey into WWI, I couldn't help but feel the conclusion doesn't gel too well with her participation in BvS.

Nothing in WW contradicts BvS.

The film opened in the present day, and while I'm paraphrasing, she says all men not being good is a lesson she learned the hard way. The final scene of WonderGal jumping into action in full costume also takes place in the present day - after the events of BvS which reinvigorated her sense of heroism. In the WW1 sequences she says "fighting for mankind is less important than being a force for love", which leads me to believe she simply remained in the background right up until she fought Doomsday. If I were WB, I'd set the sequel in modern times as well.

I'm revisiting this again. I'm not convinced by this answer, because it turns out Gal Gadot came out during a press junket for Justice League last year confirming there was a retcon between BvS and WW.

Video link: https://twitter.com/RefaelDlachmish/status/923525128788553728

Just in case that video expires, here's a transcript of what she said:

None of us knew exactly, exactly, what's the backstory of Wonder Woman. And once they decided to shoot the solo movie, [the] Wonder Woman movie, and we started to dig in and understand the core of the character, we realized that actually there is no way that Wonder Woman will EVER give up on mankind. The reason why she left the island was because she wanted to make their life better and safer. They are her colleagues, so I'm giving you a very honest answer, that it was sometimes, you know, creative processes establish something that is not necessarily the right decision. But then you can always correct it and change it. So Wonder Woman will always be there as far as she [has] concerns for mankind.

Looking back at this again, it turns out that WW was yet another movie that was meddled by Geoff Johns, while he was in charge of DC Films at the time.

Not only did Johns appear to have an influence in changing Diana's character arc in terms of continuity between this movie and BvS, but Ares's design and the third act was altered too. It's alleged that he wanted to remove the No Man's Land scene as well, because he thought it was "too dark". Patty Jenkins opposed - together with Zack Snyder's help apparently - and compromised the third act instead.

Original article: https://theculturednerd.org/2020/04/the-troublesome-history-zack-snyder-geoff-johns-and-the-fall-of-the-dceu/

This is a concept art of Ares by Peter McKinstry.





Source: https://petermckinstry.net/wonder-woman-1

And this is what we got in the final product.



Yeah, the concept art design is better. Much more intimidating, and it resembles closely to Nick McKinless's Ares in JL's History Lesson scene.



To think that Geoff Johns, the same prick who wrote Flashpoint and Batman: Earth One, would complain about darkness in a comic book adaptation is pretty f***ing rich. The thought of the NML scene ever being at risk of not making the final cut is mind-boggling. But it's quite typical of the terrible BTS decisions surrounding these movies, especially JL.

As if I need to remind anyone for the umpteenth time, remember this: Johns may not be running DC on film anymore, but he still co-wrote WW84 together with Jenkins. Apparently, the sequel will be the last film on his contract with Warner Butchers before going on his merry way and focus on those awful CW shows. But judging by Gal Gadot's recent comments about why Diana doesn't carry certain weapons in the sequel, it appears his influence is still felt:

"Wonder Woman does not carry a weapon. We had an intention to let go of the sword because there's something very aggressive with the sword," she said in footage of the event captured by CinePop. "If you have a sword you need to use it, so we wanted to give that up and we didn't feel that the shield was necessary either. She's a goddess, she can fight, she's super strong, and she has the skills and the lasso."

Source: https://www.screengeek.net/2019/12/13/wonder-woman-1984-sword-aggressive/

So I guess the first film is "too aggressive" now?  I'd understand if the idea was Diana wouldn't dare use a sword against mere mortals, but that doesn't mean she shouldn't upgrade when she encounters the likes of Doomsday, Ares, Steppenwolf and Darkseid.

If I still gave a sh*t about anything Warner Butchers does on film, whether it's DC or otherwise, I'd be very nervous about the sequel. But since they like to drag their creators through the mud and insult their core fanbase, I couldn't care any less about WW84 or any of their upcoming movies.

[The Laughing Fish]

^By the way, if anybody out there doubts the veracity of that article, Snyder himself liked it on Vero. This screenshot below was already shared on the "David Ayer on deleted scenes" thread in the Suicide Squad sub-forum.



And to think Snyder is one of several producers of WW84 that approves an article listing the misdeeds of one of the film's writers. What a farcical state of affairs.

Off-topic: I'm curious why that article didn't mention the strong possibility that Johns leaked the original plot of BvS with Metallo as the villain. The Wallace Keefe character, who Scoot McNairy ended up playing, had a striking resemblance to the Metallo concept art.

[thecolorsblend]

^By the way, if anybody out there doubts the veracity of that article, Snyder himself liked it on Vero. This screenshot below was already shared on the "David Ayer on deleted scenes" thread in the Suicide Squad sub-forum.



And to think Snyder is one of several producers of WW84 that approves an article listing the misdeeds of one of the film's writers. What a farcical state of affairs.

Off-topic: I'm curious why that article didn't mention the strong possibility that Johns leaked the original plot of BvS with Metallo as the villain. The Wallace Keefe character, who Scoot McNairy ended up playing, had a striking resemblance to the Metallo concept art.

The BVS thing was conspicuously absent, it's true.

An acquaintance of mine contributes occasional pieces like this for a few different sites. He says that if your topic is the DCEU, it's usually best to not mention the MCU too much. Because inevitably, the comments (if they're open) will devolve into a DCEU vs. MCU pissing contest. For an article that's about airing some of the dirty laundry with the DCEU, I can see where it might make more sense to sidestep that sort of thing.

And understand, a lot of sites like that one are playing with fire a little bit by posting articles like that. Several of them depend upon some level of access to DC Comics, DCE, WB, etc. It's all part of the dog and pony show. And it's risky to publish articles that vilify prominent DC personnel (i.e., Geoff Johns) when he's still a high muckety-muck in the ruins of DC Comics. Because sites that do that could find themselves getting cut off from juicy stuff in the future.

Sometimes in life, the most you can hope for is a compromise.

[The Laughing Fish]

The BVS thing was conspicuously absent, it's true.

An acquaintance of mine contributes occasional pieces like this for a few different sites. He says that if your topic is the DCEU, it's usually best to not mention the MCU too much. Because inevitably, the comments (if they're open) will devolve into a DCEU vs. MCU pissing contest. For an article that's about airing some of the dirty laundry with the DCEU, I can see where it might make more sense to sidestep that sort of thing.

And understand, a lot of sites like that one are playing with fire a little bit by posting articles like that. Several of them depend upon some level of access to DC Comics, DCE, WB, etc. It's all part of the dog and pony show. And it's risky to publish articles that vilify prominent DC personnel (i.e., Geoff Johns) when he's still a high muckety-muck in the ruins of DC Comics. Because sites that do that could find themselves getting cut off from juicy stuff in the future.

Sometimes in life, the most you can hope for is a compromise.

I've watched a little more of the full video podcast - that video I shared before was only a snippet of an interview that lasted well over two hours. The guy speaking on behalf of that blog swears they're not in it for clicks, and I assume that includes having no interest in being an access media shill outlet. Whether or not that blog will sell out one day remains to be seen, but as of now, I do appreciate them for tackling a subject a lot of other blogs and news outlets don't dare to.

You're right that these sites need to be very careful and not to piss off the higher-ups at DC/Warner Butchers if they want to protect their access and networking status. The more I think about it, it could be possible that mentioning anything about BvS getting compromised is a lawsuit risk. I'm not a lawyer of course, but I have a feeling that insinuating that Johns might've been responsible in leaking BvS's story could potentially result in a defamation case. Unless Snyder says otherwise, the Metallo and Wallace Keefe similarities make me convinced the film was likely compromised...but would that hold up in court? I wouldn't know.

Nevertheless, the rest of the article was pretty damning enough as it is, so I gotta give them credit for having the balls to put Johns under the microscope.

[The Joker]

Looking back at this again, it turns out that WW was yet another movie that was meddled by Geoff Johns, while he was in charge of DC Films at the time.

Not only did Johns appear to have an influence in changing Diana's character arc in terms of continuity between this movie and BvS, but Ares's design and the third act was altered too. It's alleged that he wanted to remove the No Man's Land scene as well, because he thought it was "too dark". Patty Jenkins opposed - together with Zack Snyder's help apparently - and compromised the third act instead.

Original article: https://theculturednerd.org/2020/04/the-troublesome-history-zack-snyder-geoff-johns-and-the-fall-of-the-dceu/

Geoff Johns is one of those guys who I have a like and equal dislike for. I didn't become familiar with his work until the early to mid 2000's, and once I did, I found his work in DC Comics to be entertaining. Flash forward (no pun intended) to his association with the DCEU, and what the guy has allegedly done during his stint is incredibly irritating.

If it's true that Johns allegedly wanted to do away with the No Man's Land sequence, then that's just a bone headed move on his part. To me, it comes across as transparently wanting to mirror Disney's MCU (get rid of the earnest sobering tone, and ramp up the comedy and CGI Action). Which is a BIG mistake in my estimation. As far as the "walking away from mankind completely" thing being retconned, that doesn't really bother me so much. Even after just watching BVS in the theaters, I recall thinking that Diana probably had incognito adventures during the last century. Just much more withdrawn following the tragedy she suffered in her life during WW1, which is only alluded to in BvS. Not exactly spelled out to the audiences.

This is a concept art of Ares by Peter McKinstry.





Source: https://petermckinstry.net/wonder-woman-1

And this is what we got in the final product.



Yeah, the concept art design is better. Much more intimidating, and it resembles closely to Nick McKinless's Ares in JL's History Lesson scene.

Concept art is cool, but I can't say I am the least bit upset with how Ares was presented in the actual film itself. Ares has taken many different appearances in the comics, but I grew up more of a fan of the George Perez rendition where Ares is presented as menacing just from his appearance, but not overly brutish. I honestly can't say I was very familiar with David Thewlis prior to Wonder Woman, but I thought his reveal as Ares slyly stoking the flames of war behind the scenes, was great.

Considering the Ares vs Darkseid sequence in Snyder's JL, I would have much preferred Thewlis reprise Ares, over the apparent 300-esque Ares from the concept art.

To think that Geoff Johns, the same prick who wrote Flashpoint and Batman: Earth One, would complain about darkness in a comic book adaptation is pretty f***ing rich. The thought of the NML scene ever being at risk of not making the final cut is mind-boggling. But it's quite typical of the terrible BTS decisions surrounding these movies, especially JL.

As if I need to remind anyone for the umpteenth time, remember this: Johns may not be running DC on film anymore, but he still co-wrote WW84 together with Jenkins. Apparently, the sequel will be the last film on his contract with Warner Butchers before going on his merry way and focus on those awful CW shows. But judging by Gal Gadot's recent comments about why Diana doesn't carry certain weapons in the sequel, it appears his influence is still felt:

It's pretty incredible, but that's Hollywood for you. Opportunists around every corner, and a company who clearly has absolutely no vision or long term plan in their 'shared universe', one can only expect chaos (Oh, hey Disney/Lucasfilms/StarWars). I've grown past the novelty of a shared universe concept in what seems like ages ago. It's just something I no longer have any sort of fascination with. The best DC/WB can hope for now is successful self contained movies that lend themselves to creative freedoms that do not require having to adhere to a specific formula. Give me a good movie, over a 2 hour advertisement for the next chapter.

[The Laughing Fish]

If it's true that Johns allegedly wanted to do away with the No Man's Land sequence, then that's just a bone headed move on his part. To me, it comes across as transparently wanting to mirror Disney's MCU (get rid of the earnest sobering tone, and ramp up the comedy and CGI Action). Which is a BIG mistake in my estimation.

Judging by the comments he gave to Vulture back in 2017, and looking at the differences between Zack Snyder's Justice League and Josstice League (as if changing Suicide Squad wasn't an indicator), it becomes quite clear that copying the competition was the goal all along.

https://www.vulture.com/2017/09/dc-wonder-woman-movie-strategy-universe.html

Speaking of the MCU, it turns out Geoff Johns and Kevin Feige are quite close as they did an internship together at one of Richard Donner's production companies twenty-odd years ago. Unsurprisingly, both men are huge fans of S78.

https://www.newsarama.com/4982-superman-the-secret-history-of-kevin-feige-geoff-johns.html

Johns might've had ambitions of following his friend's footsteps in becoming the head of a popular superhero film franchise, albeit for DC. He certainly made it very clear that he had never supported for Snyder's vision for Superman, nor for Nolan and Goyer's script for MOS. In one of his PR stunts, Johns even started coining the phrase "hope and optimism" to describe the new direction he wanted to take DC on film. Which, again, is quite hypocritical of him to say given he wrote his own share of dark comics.

You have to wonder how this man sleeps with himself. He produced the upcoming Stargirl show recently, and he dedicated the show to his deceased sister. I don't criticise him for that, it's a nice sentiment. But considering he and the studio took advantage of Snyder's own tragedy to reshoot JL, it's quite infuriating. I wouldn't be surprised he's one of those Donner Superman fans who hold it against the Salkinds over firing Richard over Superman II, but lacks self awareness to realise what he did to Snyder was much worse. As unpopular as the Salkinds may be, even they extended professional courtesy to Donner - by allowing him to see the Superman II theatrical cut and let him decide if he wanted to be associated with it in any shape or form. If only Johns took a page out of their book and showed the same courtesy to Snyder over Whedon's cut. Oh, the irony.

As far as the "walking away from mankind completely" thing being retconned, that doesn't really bother me so much. Even after just watching BVS in the theaters, I recall thinking that Diana probably had incognito adventures during the last century. Just much more withdrawn following the tragedy she suffered in her life during WW1, which is only alluded to in BvS. Not exactly spelled out to the audiences.

I was thinking the same after the watching the first WW film when it came out. But now that we see snippets of Diana fighting in broad daylight, shopping malls and the White House in the trailer, that theory is looking shaky as time goes on, to say the least.

Concept art is cool, but I can't say I am the least bit upset with how Ares was presented in the actual film itself. Ares has taken many different appearances in the comics, but I grew up more of a fan of the George Perez rendition where Ares is presented as menacing just from his appearance, but not overly brutish. I honestly can't say I was very familiar with David Thewlis prior to Wonder Woman, but I thought his reveal as Ares slyly stoking the flames of war behind the scenes, was great.

Considering the Ares vs Darkseid sequence in Snyder's JL, I would have much preferred Thewlis reprise Ares, over the apparent 300-esque Ares from the concept art.

It's funny that you mention that, because Thewlis is listed as playing Ares in the closing credits of Josstice League, despite not appearing in the film at all. Snyder once heavily implied on Vero that he intended to digitally capture his face on Ares. So Nick McKinless would act as a body double, but David Thewlis would've been credited as the actor playing the role. Nevertheless, Ares does appear in Josstice League, albeit within a second, and he resembles exactly like in the concept art.

It's pretty incredible, but that's Hollywood for you. Opportunists around every corner, and a company who clearly has absolutely no vision or long term plan in their 'shared universe', one can only expect chaos (Oh, hey Disney/Lucasfilms/StarWars). I've grown past the novelty of a shared universe concept in what seems like ages ago. It's just something I no longer have any sort of fascination with. The best DC/WB can hope for now is successful self contained movies that lend themselves to creative freedoms that do not require having to adhere to a specific formula. Give me a good movie, over a 2 hour advertisement for the next chapter.

I think it goes beyond whether or not one is still fascinated with the shared universe concept. The whole Snyder cut situation, and the horrendous circumstances surrounding it, has left such a bad taste in my mouth that I don't have any trust or care in what Warner Butchers anymore - neither for DC or in general. As much as I hate to say it, I don't even trust what Patty Jenkins says either. It's bad enough we get Gal Gadot giving a poorly conceived explanation why Diana doesn't carry a sword in WW84, but Jenkins is developing a spinoff on the Amazons...with Geoff Johns yet again.

I'm not going to direct it, hopefully. I'm going to try really hard not to. It's not going to be easy. But [Wonder Woman 1984 co-writer and former DC Entertainment President and Chief Creative Officer] Geoff Johns and I came up with the story, and we sold the pitch, and we're going to get it going. I'll produce it, for sure.

https://www.cinemablend.com/news/2495385/wow-patty-jenkins-already-has-plans-for-wonder-woman-spinoff-and-threequel

No thank you, I'll stick to Netflix. Sure, Netflix productions can be hit and miss, but I'm interested in their variety of content, as opposed to all the desperate attempts from Warner Butchers right now.

Finally, I don't like to single out Johns as the major scapegoat; after all, I still blame Warner Butchers the most for this ordeal. I don't even want to paint him as the bad guy, believe it or not. But when you consider key DCEU people like Clay Enos, Diane Nelson (even though she's covering her own ass and isn't innocent either), David Ayer and now Zack Snyder tacitly showing their disapproval of Johns, as well as the shady background dealings with him getting Whedon on board for JL, you have no choice but to consider the damage he has done. The fact that he still has a contract with Warner, either on film or TV, goes to show he has strong networking ties in the industry. Somehow, I have a feeling anybody else in his position would've been blacklisted from showbiz for life for costing the studio billions of dollars, both in terms of budget and box office.

[The Joker]

Judging by the comments he gave to Vulture back in 2017, and looking at the differences between Zack Snyder's Justice League and Josstice League (as if changing Suicide Squad wasn't an indicator), it becomes quite clear that copying the competition was the goal all along.

https://www.vulture.com/2017/09/dc-wonder-woman-movie-strategy-universe.html

Speaking of the MCU, it turns out Geoff Johns and Kevin Feige are quite close as they did an internship together at one of Richard Donner's production companies twenty-odd years ago. Unsurprisingly, both men are huge fans of S78.

https://www.newsarama.com/4982-superman-the-secret-history-of-kevin-feige-geoff-johns.html

Johns might've had ambitions of following his friend's footsteps in becoming the head of a popular superhero film franchise, albeit for DC. He certainly made it very clear that he had never supported for Snyder's vision for Superman, nor for Nolan and Goyer's script for MOS. In one of his PR stunts, Johns even started coining the phrase "hope and optimism" to describe the new direction he wanted to take DC on film. Which, again, is quite hypocritical of him to say given he wrote his own share of dark comics.

You have to wonder how this man sleeps with himself. He produced the upcoming Stargirl show recently, and he dedicated the show to his deceased sister. I don't criticise him for that, it's a nice sentiment. But considering he and the studio took advantage of Snyder's own tragedy to reshoot JL, it's quite infuriating. I wouldn't be surprised he's one of those Donner Superman fans who hold it against the Salkinds over firing Richard over Superman II, but lacks self awareness to realise what he did to Snyder was much worse. As unpopular as the Salkinds may be, even they extended professional courtesy to Donner - by allowing him to see the Superman II theatrical cut and let him decide if he wanted to be associated with it in any shape or form. If only Johns took a page out of their book and showed the same courtesy to Snyder over Whedon's cut. Oh, the irony.

Thank you for that information. I was not aware, unless I just completely forgot about it which is definitely possible, that Johns and Feige were acquainted with one another. I believe the theory that Johns wanted to be DC's version of Feige is astute. As it was recently stated by a former DC Comics artist, Ethan Van Scriver, on one of his youtube videos discussing Jim Lee's promotion, that Ethan had asked Johns about the possibility of Johns taking the EIC job at Dc Comics at some point, and Johns responded by saying that "His ambitions was much greater than just being the EIC of DC Comics." Indicating that Ethan thought Johns would have turned down the job flat if it was even offered to him.

I was thinking the same after the watching the first WW film when it came out. But now that we see snippets of Diana fighting in broad daylight, shopping malls and the White House in the trailer, that theory is looking shaky as time goes on, to say the least.

Yeah, ideally one would want continuity within a series of films to be as tight and consistent as possible.

It's funny that you mention that, because Thewlis is listed as playing Ares in the closing credits of Josstice League, despite not appearing in the film at all. Snyder once heavily implied on Vero that he intended to digitally capture his face on Ares. So Nick McKinless would act as a body double, but David Thewlis would've been credited as the actor playing the role. Nevertheless, Ares does appear in Josstice League, albeit within a second, and he resembles exactly like in the concept art.

I guess the approach of digitally capturing Thewlis' face onto the body double would have worked fine, but I personally would have preferred Ares to look more similar to how we was shown in WW 2017. The 300 look works for Zeus, and even Hercules, but I think Ares reappearing in Snyder's JL, just as he was in WW, would have been more cohesive and welcomed.

I think it goes beyond whether or not one is still fascinated with the shared universe concept. The whole Snyder cut situation, and the horrendous circumstances surrounding it, has left such a bad taste in my mouth that I don't have any trust or care in what Warner Butchers anymore - neither for DC or in general. As much as I hate to say it, I don't even trust what Patty Jenkins says either. It's bad enough we get Gal Gadot giving a poorly conceived explanation why Diana doesn't carry a sword in WW84, but Jenkins is developing a spinoff on the Amazons...with Geoff Johns yet again.

My anger has turned into apathy at this point. The sketchy backstage politics, dishonesty, discourteous manner, ect ect, that has transpired at Warner ever since they decided to compete with Disney/Marvel, and how they continually push the panic button and self kneecapping their projects, all leaves me with a complete non-interest in any attempt at shared universe continuity that Warners will ever attempt at producing. I suppose just stating my own lack of fascination with the novelty, was a more discreet way of stating my overall apathetic attitude towards the intended plan they have now. Whatever that is.

[The Laughing Fish]

Thank you for that information. I was not aware, unless I just completely forgot about it which is definitely possible, that Johns and Feige were acquainted with one another. I believe the theory that Johns wanted to be DC's version of Feige is astute. As it was recently stated by a former DC Comics artist, Ethan Van Scriver, on one of his youtube videos discussing Jim Lee's promotion, that Ethan had asked Johns about the possibility of Johns taking the EIC job at Dc Comics at some point, and Johns responded by saying that "His ambitions was much greater than just being the EIC of DC Comics." Indicating that Ethan thought Johns would have turned down the job flat if it was even offered to him.

You're welcome. I'm not surprised that Van Sciver got the impression that Johns had bigger ambitions than becoming editor-in-chief at DC Comics. Johns's big ego and sense of entitlement might have started when Richard Donner endorsed him to write a new Superman screenplay back in 2008. This was soon after they collaborated together on Action Comics.

https://www.newsarama.com/1285-richard-donner-give-geoff-johns-the-superman-movie.html

It doesn't help that Johns loved Superman Returns, seemingly because of the Donner references above all else. It's no surprise we got to hear that little snippet of the John Williams theme in Josstice League.

https://forums.superherohype.com/threads/geoff-johns-and-richard-donner-love-superman-returns.238572/

People can say whatever they want about Snyder's films, but the truth is they still brought in hype, attention and passionate debate. Besides, even if you don't like Snyder, you can't discredit him for casting the likes of Gal Gadot and Jason Momoa for Wonder Woman and Aquaman respectively. Johns's only success so far seems to be Aquaman, which he co-wrote the story. Otherwise, Green Lantern and Josstice League were failures. The former put the character back in development hell for years, and the latter leaves behind a franchise that drove actors away, cherry picks certain characters, a broken continuity, and a fanbase further divided. Way to go in trying to emulate your friend, Geoff!

Speaking of GL and JL, did you know that it's heavily implied that he was going to make a surprise appearance in the Snyder cut? FFS.

https://thefanboyseo.com/2019/11/29/we-almost-had-a-green-lantern-in-zack-snyders-justice-league/

The rabbit hole gets deeper and deeper, doesn't it? The irony of Johns, a GL writer himself, may have had involvement in cutting out the character's possible big screen return, in a JL movie.

I don't know how successful WW84 will be. But will it be worth it after everything else we lost? I don't f***ing think so.

I guess the approach of digitally capturing Thewlis' face onto the body double would have worked fine, but I personally would have preferred Ares to look more similar to how we was shown in WW 2017. The 300 look works for Zeus, and even Hercules, but I think Ares reappearing in Snyder's JL, just as he was in WW, would have been more cohesive and welcomed.

Regardless of which Ares design we prefer, it's safe to say the drastic change in the villains' original designs goes right back to Steppenwolf. I think we can agree the change between how we first see him as a roaring, hulking monster in the BvS Ultimate Edition compared to his more comic-looking (yet inferior CGI rendering) appearance in JL was a compromise to make him less frightening to the audience.

My anger has turned into apathy at this point. The sketchy backstage politics, dishonesty, discourteous manner, ect ect, that has transpired at Warner ever since they decided to compete with Disney/Marvel, and how they continually push the panic button and self kneecapping their projects, all leaves me with a complete non-interest in any attempt at shared universe continuity that Warners will ever attempt at producing. I suppose just stating my own lack of fascination with the novelty, was a more discreet way of stating my overall apathetic attitude towards the intended plan they have now. Whatever that is.

Therein lies the problem: Warner have NO plan. Not even the standalone films they're making are really plans, but rather a gamble to see what sells to the audience, and what doesn't it. The moment another movie doesn't meet the critical and financial benchmark they want to achieve, they will simply throw those movies away. It's hard to get hyped up for future productions knowing they will callously take advantage of tragedies to basically write off the movie if it doesn't meet their own criteria e.g. JL.

Warner are clueless. Not only did they skip last year's SDCC and let Marvel take hold of the limelight, their most successful film in an otherwise underwhelming box office year was the one they never believed in: they sold half the profits of that Joaquin Phoenix movie before hand because they didn't think it would be successful, and even reportedly gave the production a cheap budget to discourage them from making the movie. Lo and behold, that movie ended up becoming the most profitable comic film of all time.

https://seekingalpha.com/news/3509924-warner-bros-bad-call-on-joker-to-be-expensive
https://screenrant.com/joker-movie-box-office-success-warner-bros-profit-split/

Personally, I've no interest in ever seeing that movie, but that's irrelevant. The point is the studio doesn't know what they're doing and the fact they still financially handicapped themselves with their biggest success confirms this. As you say, they will keep failing because of their tendency to push the panic button and sabotage their own projects. It's yet another why I can't bring myself to get excited for a new Batman movie even if I try. If there's one thing I learned after Affleck's Batman run ending prematurely with his last true film appearance being withheld to this day, is never get invested into a series. If the reboot doesn't do well enough to satisfy mass audiences, critics and get that box office benchmark, they'll simply reboot it again. Assuming they don't affect the previous final product with reshoots first. Let's just hope next time there won't be another tragedy for those vultures to pounce on as an excuse to "save" the film and mislead the audience. Bastards.

[thecolorsblend]

Mmm.

Technically, there's a GL in the hacked up JL movie we already have.

[The Laughing Fish]

Mmm.

Technically, there's a GL in the hacked up JL movie we already have.

I know you were being tongue-in-cheek, but as Snyder says, that character in the History Lesson scene was never intended to be THE Green Lantern.





https://www.cinemablend.com/news/2487576/looks-like-the-snyder-cut-of-justice-league-would-have-included-a-different-green-lantern

I'm quite surprised Johns and Warner didn't delete that character too, to be honest.