should there be a continuation of this universe in some way?

[Dagenspear]

And did so without carrying a burden any longer. 

As for TDKR's ending? I read an improvised ending that BatmAngelus came up with from a few years ago which I thought was much better:

A lot of TDKRises fans chalk up the critics as fanboys who can't let go of the fact that Batman quit and think he should go on forever.  To me, it's not about that.  It's the execution. 

Want to give Batman a definite ending and have Bruce Wayne hang up the cowl?  Okay, Chris.  But do it in a way that fits with the themes you were setting up in the last two movies, that keeps Bruce as the heroic figure we've been rooting for since Begins, and doesn't make us ask a ton of logic questions to ourselves before the credits roll. 

It also would've helped if Bruce hadn't already quit being Batman for eight years before the film started.  If the movie's about how Bruce needs to give up on being Batman, don't start with him having already done it 'cause then you've defeated the purpose.

Hell, I'm not even convinced "Batman" had to die at the end either, but things would've sat a lot better with me if "Batman died but Bruce Wayne lived" in the eyes of Gotham City.  It still wouldn't have solved things like "How did he get out of the Bat in time?" but this would've helped a lot of other issues. 

By staying in Gotham as Bruce, he wouldn't have come across as a selfish jerk, like in the current ending, for making his friends and allies, including the man who raised him, think he was dead.  Everyone who knew he was really Batman would know that he was still alive.

You also wouldn't have people wondering "Why hasn't anyone figured out that Bruce was Batman if they both died?" or "How/when the heck did Bruce have time to write his will?"

This ending also would've eliminated the restaurant reunion, which means Alfred wouldn't end up broadcasting the movie's ending in the first fifteen minutes or saying that he never wanted Bruce to come home from his travels (which was never remotely hinted at in Begins in the first place, so this wouldn't have been much of a loss).  And Bruce and Selina wouldn't magically be able to dine at the same restaurant in Italy at the same time. 

Instead, Bruce and Alfred might've actually had a real, heartfelt reunion/reconciliation in Wayne Manor, instead of just a nod and a grin, now that Bruce had finally moved on from being Batman. 
(Honestly, if I were Alfred, I wouldn't have been smiling upon seeing Bruce.  I would've been pissed that the kid made me think he was dead this whole time).

On a big thematic level, Bruce Wayne could actually regain his fortune, which would've fulfilled how Batman always "picks himself up" after tragedy (instead of quitting and running away from it all). 

Instead of leaving Gothamites to pick up the pieces from all of Bane's destruction so he could hook up with Selina in Europe, Bruce could've put funding back into the orphanage himself and used his resources to help the city rebuild itself, like his father did, finally shedding the playboy persona and living up to the Wayne family name, truly bringing the themes all back to Batman Begins (and fulfilling what Alfred advises earlier in the film anyway). 

We'd actually get to witness "the day that Gotham wouldn't need Batman" that was hinted at way back in 2005.
Too bad that was all contradicted in the current ending with the return of the Bat Signal and Blake getting the Batcave.

Honestly, I don't think the TDKRises fans would love the film any less if Nolan went for this ending.  The movie would've lost very little, yet gained so much.

The film is about how he can't be batman anymore and he needs to let go of his parents death. Not about how he needs to give up being batman.

Everyone knew he was still alive by the end too.

He wrote his will before he gave his company to Miranda.

He isn't batman anymore. But letting go of it all and moving on does show that he picks himself up. He does put stuff into the city.

The day that gotham won't need batman wasn't going to happen. That was realized at the end of tdk.

God bless you! God bless everyone in your life!

[thecolorsblend]

The old series was just the opposite. Bruce came to terms with being Batman, and he chose to be Batman...forever. 

Indeed. And I think there's validity to that idea in that it shows Bruce coming to terms with his parents death and not being so dark and whatnot anymore.

I just happen to think that when he inevitably makes that realization, the change he'll make is giving up Batman permanently instead of giving up just the darkness.

By the way, I'm not saying I actually want to see the story where Bruce peacefully retires and moves off. Some things are better left to the imagination. I'm only saying I think that's the most logical outcome.

[The Laughing Fish]

On a side note, I am already aware of there being a direct-to-DVD movie called Batman: Gotham Knight that takes place between Batman Begins and The Dark Knight. But that doesn't look or feel the least bit like it's part of the same universe at all. Does anyone actually consider that canon?

I believe Gotham Knight was only made to cash in the anticipation of the second film, but it has nothing to do with Nolan's continuity.

Besides, in one of the film's short stories called Walking Through Pain, Alfred arrives in the 1989 Batmobile to help a wounded Batman.



One more possible Burton reference is Batman resembling a lot like Michael Keaton in another short called In Darkness Dwells.



It might have been unintentional on the producers' part, for all we know. But if this film was meant to be an official part of the Nolan canon, it would've avoided making a homage to a previous era of the film franchise.

[Vampfox]

No. Personally I think that Nolan's "more grounded in reality" Batman universe is ultimately a dead end. Trying to keep everything grounding really limits what you can do. Also most of Batman's big name villains that could fit into Nolan's world had already been used. So really I don't see a point.

[Edd Grayson]

That's a fair point, Vampfox.
I know some fans wanted Penguin or Riddler, but I don't know just how you could make them "grounded" and not strip them of their identity.

[The Laughing Fish]

That's a fair point, Vampfox.
I know some fans wanted Penguin or Riddler, but I don't know just how you could make them "grounded" and not strip them of their identity.

Even if they did the Riddler properly, they would have to improve Batman's intellect ten-fold to challenge him. While he could carry out basic investigative tasks when he's given the tools to work with i.e. eavesdropping on crooks, collecting a bullet from a crime scene, he's utterly useless without Lucius Fox's help. Which doesn't scream "World's Greatest Detective" to me at all. Unless you want to point out that contrived scene in TDK where he connected the entire sonar network on cellphones. If he couldn't understand how the Scarecrow's fear toxin works and needed Fox to make the antidote, and couldn't understand the Joker's psychological profile, then how the hell did he suddenly become adept in making that technology work? Anyway, I digress.

As for the Penguin? Comedian Patton Oswalt actually starred as a Nolanized version of him in a comedy skit called Batman Disturbs the Penguin, which pokes fun at Batman breaking his moral code without realizing it.

[Edd Grayson]

I don't think Nolan did a stellar job with the villains that he got to make. Scarecrow, Ra's, Joker, and Bane weren't bad but far from the 'definitive take' IMO, and I liked Harvey Dent, but they way they turned him into Two-Face and finish him off was bad. And Anne Hathaway played Selina Kyle, the cat burglar... not Catwoman.

LOL at the "Penguin". And I agree about The Riddler.

[Dagenspear]

Even if they did the Riddler properly, they would have to improve Batman's intellect ten-fold to challenge him. While he could carry out basic investigative tasks when he's given the tools to work with i.e. eavesdropping on crooks, collecting a bullet from a crime scene, he's utterly useless without Lucius Fox's help. Which doesn't scream "World's Greatest Detective" to me at all. Unless you want to point out that contrived scene in TDK where he connected the entire sonar network on cellphones. If he couldn't understand how the Scarecrow's fear toxin works and needed Fox to make the antidote, and couldn't understand the Joker's psychological profile, then how the hell did he suddenly become adept in making that technology work? Anyway, I digress.

Technology isn't chemistry. I wouldn't really call connecting sonar to all the cell phones in the city as detective work myself personally.

I don't think Nolan did a stellar job with the villains that he got to make. Scarecrow, Ra's, Joker, and Bane weren't bad but far from the 'definitive take' IMO, and I liked Harvey Dent, but they way they turned him into Two-Face and finish him off was bad. And Anne Hathaway played Selina Kyle, the cat burglar... not Catwoman.

That's Catwoman too. The character is like that in some versions. Joker was good, as was Ra's and Scarecrow and Bane. As far as definitive in general, I wouldn't say that's so. As far as adaptions, Arkham Origins Bane was really well done for me. The animated series Ra's was was as well, I thought. Mark Hamill's Joker does really well and Troy Baker is about neck and neck with Heath and Nolan's Joker. I don't know what was bad about Harvey's turn and conclusion.

God bless you both! God bless everyone!

[Edd Grayson]

It was bad that Two-Face was just a pawn in Joker's scheme and his vendetta was a secondary plot thread at best... and a forgettable one at worst.

As I said, those other villains weren't bad. And Hathaway's Selina, while true to the original character, couldn't hold a candle to the other versions from my point of view, unfortunately.

[Dagenspear]

It was bad that Two-Face was just a pawn in Joker's scheme and his vendetta was a secondary plot thread at best... and a forgettable one at worst.

As I said, those other villains weren't bad. And Hathaway's Selina, while true to the original character, couldn't hold a candle to the other versions from my point of view, unfortunately.

It is a point of view. But what you said before wasn't the case. Being a pawn and having a secondary plot thread isn't really an indicator of being done poorly. And he wasn't forgettable.

God bless you! God bless everyone!