The Dark Knight Criticism

[Sandman]

I know what you mean, It does feel like watching Heat, although i like Heat much better. That prob one of the reasons i don't like the film as much as the Burton films, Nolan while an exellent Director tried to make the movie into somthing it wasn't while Burton made a Batman movie. And i agree even if the Nolanites wont except it Nolan where not ripped out of the comic and placed on screen.

[Sandman]

Yeah I agree sandman, I found alot of that Burton FU stuff, even in Begins. There was a lot of things he done in Begins and TDK, which I felt he was trying to outdo Burton, like he was saying 'This is how I would do it' or 'I can do it better' etc.

Oh My God Thats just how it feels to me word for word.

[Dark Knight Detective]

lol, thats an insult to Heat, a proper crime/drama thriller / adult film.

Did you mean that I insulted it? If it sounds like that, what I was trying to say is that the plot of TDK was sort of out of the Batman universe & not fresh in certain areas. Don't you find it funny that Val Kilmer, a former Batman, starred in one of the original crime/drama films, while Christian Bale, the current Batman, starred in a film that was apparently trying to go for Heat's crime/suspense plot? Is that Nolan's way of giving a small homage to a former Batman actor?

[Joker81]

"lol, thats an insult to Heat, a proper crime/drama thriller / adult film."

Did you mean that I insulted it? If it sounds like that, what I was trying to say is that the plot of TDK was sort of out of the Batman universe & not fresh in certain areas. Don't you find it funny that Val Kilmer, a former Batman, starred in one of the original crime/drama films, while Christian Bale, the current Batman, starred in a film that was apparently trying to go for Heat's crime/suspense plot? Is that Nolan's way of giving a small homage to a former Batman actor?

Sorry, I wasnt trying to be cheeky lol I just mean there is no comparision to TDK to a film like Heat.

I dont think thats what Nolan was trying to do with Kilmer and TDK! lol I remember when Batman Begins came out that it was being hailed for being a very 'smart' film with a plot like out of a drug/crime film! I watched it and thought, yeah it has a very gritty feel to it, but its not up there with the likes of Scareface lol!! I thought it was the wrong direction to go.

So I suppose Nolan wanted to carry on the trend of more adult themes. I guess he admires the likes of Heat, and wanted to make a 'crime' movie out of TDK. But again, it is pale in comparison to a movie like Heat! He has admitted Heat was an inspiration. He's walking a fine line. These films are supposed to be for kids, yet at the same time he appears to be trying to please the adult audience, by making it more straight laced. Something that may backfire in future.

To be honest, something that is on my mind is Jaws. I can see a lot of the film Jaws infleuencing some scenes in TDK, and especially that of the Joker. The two note theme tune he has, and the fact Nolan already said "Heaths Joker is like the shark out of Jaws". Even the scene where the Joker interrupts the mob boss meeting. People say it is like the mob meeting in Batman, yes I see similarities, but I see it being heavily influenced by the town meeting in Jaws when Quint interrupts it "I'll catch this bird for ya."
"Its simple, kill the Batman."

And after Batman crashes his bike and is knocked out, the Joker takes his knife out and walks towrd him "Du dum du dum du dum" - is that the Jaws theme tune he is humming?

[Dark Knight Detective]

I dont think thats what Nolan was trying to do with Kilmer and TDK! lol I remember when Batman Begins came out that it was being hailed for being a very 'smart' film...

Very smart!? What were these people thinking when they said that? If this film is supposed to be "very smart", then why in the world are Katie Holmes & Rachel Dawes in it!? Katie Holmes is one of the worst actresses I've ever seen. As for Rachel Dawes, she's not even from the comics & really doesn't add anything to Begins. She's just a self righteous b****, lecturing people for her own personal pleasure.   I think she should've died at the hands of Scarecrow in Begins. That would've raised TDK's plot to a better level in my opinion! At least she was given more humanity in TDK (not to mention that she's played by a MUCH MORE talented actress). GO MAGGIE!

[thecolorsblend]

^ I think my overall distaste for Begins is well noted by now but what kind of criticism is that?  Was Carl Grissom in the comics?  Did I miss the issue that had Max Shreck in it?

[Joker81]

Have to say, I like Maggie Gyllenthal in TDK.

I am a film fan, I can understand the relenvence of that subplot, having a kind of love interest, the heart of the picture so to speak, maybe the emotional side to the film.

But in saying that, if I was to be a real bitch of a batman fan, I could say "Rachels not in the comics!! And Batman didnt have ONE love interest in the comics, he didnt have a Louis lane!" I could be as petty as the Nolanites. But I am not, because I understand how films are made. I am not as ignorant as some Nolan fans who think their Batman films are better than Burtons just because they have a marginal character like Carmine Falcone, and Sal Moroni, and Burtons have Carl Grissom, and Max Schreck.

This is where Nolan fans cannot be honest and say "Ok, Nolan got it right where Falcone and Maroni is concerned, but why is Bruce pondering over a girl - who didnt appear in the comics? Surley Bruce Wayne in the comics knew he did not have time for that type of life because he was too busy concentrating fighting crime?" - And he knows this!

But no, they just concentrate on the negetives of the Burton films. they should look a little closer to home before slating the Burton films.

[Dark Knight Detective]

I know Grissom & Shreck aren't from the comics, but Grissom borrows elements from Rupert Thorne, while Shreck borrows from Mayor Hamilton Hill.

Dawes doesn't borrow anything at all, just like Chase Meridian before her. Of those two women, one is a self righteous robot while the other sounds like a confused 16 yr. old who can't decide to choose between her loving parents or her corrupted boyfriend. They're both absolutely lame. Grissom didn't do much in BATMAN, but he's definitely like Thorne. Shreck is corrupted, like Hamilton Hill was, & he hires people to carry out crimes (Hill had Thorne & some or most of the GCPD, while Shreck had the Penguin & RTCG).

Overall, while they're not from the comics, it's not like they were made into self righteous robots or confused "doctors". In fact, Shreck, IMO, should've definitely been made into a comic book character (he was originally going to be in B:TAS instead of Roland Daggett).

[Joker81]

Dont be getting me wrong tho, I like Schrek and Grissom, all this so called realism in Nolans films, and lets be honest - Schreck and Grissom were far more realistic and scary gangster villians than the way Falcone and Maroni were portrayed in the movies.

[Joker81]

Oh, and played by two terrific actors, Jack Palance and Christopher Walken!!