The Dark Knight Criticism

[Joker81]

This might sound strange, but after TDK I am thankful the Joker died in Batman. As it gave us closure in Burton's Batman vision. Something we wont have with Nolans Films.

[thecolorsblend]

We wouldn't really have it with the Nolan films even if Ledger hadn't passed away though.  I doubt he would've been recycled as the principle villain in another film since audiences have already seen a Batman vs. Joker story in Nolan's universe.  What new thing could anybody bring to the table?

[Redskull]

I actually think that the whole Rachael Dawes character in TDK is the weakest link of the film. Nolan still tried to build a storyline with Rachael being the love interest of Bruce Wayne. Which we all know should have ended in Begins. Instead they replace Katie Holmes with another actress and ruin most of the film's plot because of some ridiculous love-triangle(as seen in Spider-Man).

They kill Rachael Dawes off by the middle of the movie. Does this add any value to the story? No. To tell you the truth, it doesn't. Why? It wasn't the same actress that played as the original Rachael Dawes. So it's basically Nolan telling the viewers that even though this is not Katie Holmes, it's still Bruce Wayne's childhood firend, Rachael Dawes. And we should erase Katie Holmes from our heads, when we think of Batman Begins. So of course how can we_the viewers feel any sympathy for someone who wasn't even in the first film(but technically was)?

This made me LOL!

[Joker89]

Thank you for the compliment! I stand by that statement.

[Gotham Knight]

Apparently 'the dark knight fanboy' group has grown to concerning levels.

[Batman]

LOL

Y'know, when the video started with the Fanboy Chronicles title and the guy wearing a turkey hat I thought he was going to praise The Dark Knight and drool all over Nolan.

But in reality he spoke words of wisdom in a very decent manner. Good work.

[Henchmen21]

Not my words but agree with the sentiment entirely.  Also, while the message I'm quoting is for TDK, It's more how I feel toward BB as I haven't seen TDK (and probably never will as why would I go see a sequel to a movie I couldn't stand?)

I think a few posters here have, in my opinion, really nailed the main flaw of the Nolan films, in that while they try desperately to cling to some sort of "real" or "credible" context for the characters, ultimately fail at creating any meaningful philosophical statement.

the dark knight, in particular, fails in its treatment of terrorism. for some reason, most people think that by removing any logical motivation behind the joker's mayhem, the dark knight is a more "mature" film (when compared to batman 89). but reality doesn't work that way, and as much as we want to paint terrorists as evil, impenetrable abstractions, they're not like that in real life. what kind of message does this film give us- that we can never understand the motivations behind terrorism? that's intellectual laziness.

the dark knight is plagued with all sorts of trite, pseudo-intellectual exercises. a lot of the blame must be placed on the nolan brothers, and the screenplay is simply not that good. the climax with the two ships seemed like it was taken out of some 100-level philosophy course. the major rule of film- show, not tell- is violated constantly. every character spews out bad philosophy as to make sure that we "get" what's going on. the themes and subtext of a film are not supposed to be expressed through dialogue. it really just bothers me that so many of us are calling this film "brainy" and "realistic" and "mature," because it shows how stupid and lazy audiences are becoming.

there's nothing realistic about the dark knight. the joker doesn't fall into a vat of acid, so that's supposed to be realistic? saying such rubbish as "i'm an agent of chaos" is mature? that line doesn't even make any sense.

and while much of the blame should be placed on the nolan brothers, we shouldn't forget that batman is, no matter how you slice it, a comic book character. i'm not saying that it's impossible to create a legitimately smart, deep work of art based around a guy in a rubber suit, but i wouldn't want to try it. there's only so much you can do with these characters, because they were never meant to be placed in such a serious, "mature" context. why do people care so much about maturity in a comic book film? if you want a mature film about psychosis, watch man bites dog. there's no need to clutter up comic book escapist entertainment with realism.

the burton films weren't exactly "mature" either, but they never tried to be. burton knew exactly the limits of the characters, and to his credit, still created something that had enough subtext to make an interesting film. he never went overboard, and with the exception of a couple of lines here and there, never really goes into the outright pandering that nolan does. burton doesn't leave it to the dialogue to explain every nuance that he's trying to put in the film. there's room for subtext to breathe. in addition, the film is stylish and fun. while nolan has absolutely no idea how to shoot an action sequence, burton utilized different editing patterns and camera angles to cinematically reproduce a comic book. the film is a vibrant celebration of comic book oddities. danny elfman's score is fantastic, and that itself created all sorts of different psychological nuances within the characters. hans zimmer's score, specifically the joker's "theme," is really just a monotonous, predictable attempt at illustrating the character. there's none of the psychological complexity found in elfman's score. and most importantly, elfman's score is just plain fun. while it might not be high art, it at least knows what it is, and doesn't bore us by trying to be "mature." it's just a swashbuckling romp, and elfman knows it.

it doesn't seem like the makers of the dark knight had much fun while creating the film- which is fine, but there's nothing really smart or mature about it either. what we're left with is a bland, pseudo-intellectual, ugly film that unfortunately has seeped into the culture. it's devoid of anything worth digesting. it's not fun, and it's not smart. it just "is." indeed, the emperor is not wearing any clothes.

[reedj927]

I think I spoiled Begins probably (seeing as how I read the leaked script), but I was still excited to see a new darker batman movie, and I liked the movie up until he actually put on the suit and then I couldn't see what the hell was going on when he was fighting and then I see him pull Falcone out of the roof and I got excited again and he says "the line" and then follows it up with "nice coat" and I just groaned.  Then at the end he tells Ras "I don't have to kill you but I don't have to save you either" which I'm sorry your still killing someone if you have the ability and can save them and you don't...and it wouldn't bother me that much that he did that if Nolanites would admit that that is the same thing as Batman killing in Batman89, but of course they won't.

TDK has not held up to repeated viewings with me and I think part of it is that Nolan tries to make it so real that I then pick apart everything that is not real, such as Gordon faking his own death.  I really don't think that in the real world a lieutenant could get away with faking his own death seeing as how that is highly illegal.  There is also of course as Raleagh has pointed out the whole deal with him saying he wants to move his head, I mean seriously Nolan was really trying to please the fanboys with that comment, but in my opinion it made him look foolish as he and Goyer stated many times before Begins came out that they had finally made a suit where Batman could finally move his head and made fun of the other movies b/c he couldn't.

[thecolorsblend]

TDK has not held up to repeated viewings with me and I think part of it is that Nolan tries to make it so real that I then pick apart everything that is not real, such as Gordon faking his own death.  I really don't think that in the real world a lieutenant could get away with faking his own death seeing as how that is highly illegal.  There is also of course as Raleagh has pointed out the whole deal with him saying he wants to move his head, I mean seriously Nolan was really trying to please the fanboys with that comment, but in my opinion it made him look foolish as he and Goyer stated many times before Begins came out that they had finally made a suit where Batman could finally move his head and made fun of the other movies b/c he couldn't.

It's for all the reasons you mention that I say TDK's only good in the vocabulary of big, stupid popcorn summer cinema.  Batman killing Two Face (he did it, we know he did it, let's not BS) and the myriad plotholes and incoherences are just too much.  Watch it with an eye on just enjoying the ride and it gets better, imho.

[Joker81]

Thats a great write-up there Henchman 21, very intellegent and I agree 100%.

thecoloursblend, I also agree with you. I am a fan of The Dark Knight, but, it is when people say it is the greatest film ever made, and its very smart and more mature and realistic than other Batman films, thats when the truth has to be told, and the backlash begins.

The people that say these things need to be put in their place. And just because Ledger wins an oscar (which he will) doesnt make it a better film, or best 'superhero/comic' movie!

Interesting about the terrorist thing, implying 'terrorsits' just kill for the sake of it. Maybe it just shows how america (and the Nolans) percieve terrorism as a randomness and indiscriminant act. Whereas the reality is a man does not blow himself up or pick up an AK47 for no reason, and because we dont understand them we label them as terrorsists. There is always a logical explaination why a man would do that. It goes to show that people do not understand or want to understand the repressed and discrimated against person, or persons in this world. Nolan should have remembered what was quoted in his own film Batman Begins, a famous quote that 'We are only afriad of what we do not understand'. if only people took as much energy to understand these people we have labelled as terrorists as we put into shooting them and incarsorating them the world would be a better place.