Catwoman's nine lives

[Dagenspear]

Source: http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0376994/trivia

It goes to show that she was banking on Catwoman to allow her become the main star of a superhero franchise, which she obviously didn't get to be in any of the X-Men movies.

Back on topic now...

That doesn't say that she made a condition that she become the leader and even if she did, the only change I can imagine is that it made her the leader instead of wolverine, because I remember in 2005 watching a fantastic four sneak peek for x3 and Avi Arad was talking about wolverine being the leader. James Marsden was already trimmed a lot from it, so it's not like she stole the lead from him.

God bless you! God bless everyone in your life!

[johnnygobbs]

I agree Dagenspear.

Halle Berry was given hardly anything to do in the first two X-Men films so she was right to demand more screen-time/action for an important character like Storm, not least because Storm is one of the X-Men team-leaders in the comic-books.  NOT Wolverine.  And besides, the films were rapidly turning into 'Wolverine and friends' instead of the 'X-Men' (as in plural), and it was only right that another character get some decent screen-time, not least because Wolverine would get his own spin-off movies in any case.

As for Halle Berry, it was not her fault but the fault of the screenwriters and director that the 2004 Catwoman movie was so bad.  Given a decent screenplay and production team I'm certain Halle Berry would have made a fine Catwoman.

[Edd Grayson]

And besides, the films were rapidly turning into 'Wolverine and friends' instead of the 'X-Men' (as in plural), and it was only right that another character get some decent screen-time, not least because Wolverine would get his own spin-off movies in any case.

To be fair, Wolverine is a fan favorite, and in movies it's more difficult to focus on all the team members than in the comics or the cartoons. Even the last two X-Men films, which I liked, were all about Xavier, Magneto, and Mystique and far less about the rest.

[Dagenspear]

I agree Dagenspear.

Halle Berry was given hardly anything to do in the first two X-Men films so she was right to demand more screen-time/action for an important character like Storm, not least because Storm is one of the X-Men team-leaders in the comic-books.  NOT Wolverine.  And besides, the films were rapidly turning into 'Wolverine and friends' instead of the 'X-Men' (as in plural), and it was only right that another character get some decent screen-time, not least because Wolverine would get his own spin-off movies in any case.

As for Halle Berry, it was not her fault but the fault of the screenwriters and director that the 2004 Catwoman movie was so bad.  Given a decent screenplay and production team I'm certain Halle Berry would have made a fine Catwoman.

Thank you. I don't disagree about Halle's capabilities either.

God bless you! God bless everyone in your life!

[The Laughing Fish]

Halle Berry was given hardly anything to do in the first two X-Men films so she was right to demand more screen-time/action for an important character like Storm, not least because Storm is one of the X-Men team-leaders in the comic-books.  NOT Wolverine.  And besides, the films were rapidly turning into 'Wolverine and friends' instead of the 'X-Men' (as in plural), and it was only right that another character get some decent screen-time, not least because Wolverine would get his own spin-off movies in any case.

I still think Storm was given a leadership role X3, but I thought she was second in command to Wolverine rather than acting as the main leader of the team. I'm sure that's what Catwoman meant too.

Anyway, does anybody else think that some people's criticism of Catwoman's supernatural abilities to be quite odd? I've noticed that a lot of these detractors typically prefer to play down the fantastiscal aspects of the Batman lore as much as possible. Which is strange since Batman's many villains include the zombie Solomon Grundy, Man-Bat, the shape shifting Clayface , centuries old Ra's all Ghul and the list goes on. It's fine if some people feel like this approach doesn't work for Catwoman, but the vibe I'm getting is they're excessively critical of all otherworldly villains.

[Edd Grayson]

Anyway, does anybody else think that some people's criticism of Catwoman's supernatural abilities to be quite odd? I've noticed that a lot of these detractors typically prefer to play down the fantastiscal aspects of the Batman lore as much as possible. Which is strange since Batman's many villains include the zombie Solomon Grundy, Man-Bat, the shape shifting Clayface , centuries old Ra's all Ghul and the list goes on. It's fine if some people feel like this approach doesn't work for Catwoman, but the vibe I'm getting is they're excessively critical of all otherworldly villains.

I like villains like Ra's, Clayface, Man-Bat and Grundy and I don't think there's a problem with Selina gaining supernatural powers as Catwoman in Batman Returns. Also, it's not like other villains such as Joker, Two-Face,  Poison Ivy or Mr.Freeze are very realistic. 

[johnnygobbs]

Although I Nolan's 'gritty' approach is far from my favourite, I'm not overly keen on the more supernatural/overtly fantastical/magical members of Batman's rogues' gallery either.  I like a Batman that operates within the laws of science as we know them, even though I prefer a Gotham that is not simply an existing city but a larger-than-life and hyper-real version of the world's most iconic metropolises.

I think Burton mostly got the balance right in setting his Batman in a plausible world that could exist but nevertheless doesn't exist.  None of his characters, even Catwoman, assuming she didn't actually die from being pushed out of Shreck's skyscraper (and the way her descent was broken by the several awnings she fell through suggests that it is possible she did survive by 'natural' means), is explicitly magical regardless of how extreme their psychologies may be.  To Burton's credit, he left Catwoman's origins ambiguous and open to both a relatively realistic and a supernatural interpretation.

[Edd Grayson]

Batman TAS had the Gotham of your preference (and mine as well, by the way), and the villains were sometimes gangsters and corrupt businessmen as well as more fantastical ones. So I think the two can truly co-exist. 

[Catwoman]

I love how of all the points I made and the comments I made the only thing anyone focused on was one f***ing offhanded remark quoting something I had read about Halle's conditions for returning as Storm. And yes, it was that she replaced Cyclops and Professor X in their leadership roles, which is why Ratner killed them both off which is what my issue was with it. Thanks for the help TLF. I know I should have cited it myself but I honestly didn't expect such a big hullabaloo over that comment. Live and learn.

[Edd Grayson]

Sorry you feel we didn't appreciate your entire post, Catwoman. I agreed with your points but I only quoted that part because I wanted to make a comment on it in particular.