Crazy fan theory about TDK's Joker

[Dagenspear]

Be honest and provide the full quote. She says "Be their angel, be their monument, be anything they need you to be... or be none of it. You don't owe this world a thing. You never did." She's not telling Superman what to do, like you are.

He's a Kryptonian.

Superman doesn't have to denounce himself or in fact do anything for humanity.

Everyone has their own view about Superman. In my opinion, it's insecure people who compare him to Jesus as if it's a negative. Personally, I think Superman should go full God mode (such as this gem from Leviticus 20:15 NLT= If a man has sex with an animal, he must be put to death, and the animal must be killed) but he doesn't. He has self control and suppresses any urges.

You're answer is bolded above.

Devoting yourself to a selfless cause only to receive harsh backlash isn't a good thing for a person experience. Do you think it is?

I don't care if he's in a wheelchair or not. He's nothing but a vandal with a high likelihood of being radicalized by the mainstream media. Graffiti vandals are punished. The rule of law must be upheld. How about I tag your walls with 'completely true' statements and see how you like it?

I know what she says. It doesn't change the fact that he should be none of it. His mom is wrong in that he should or shouldn't be those things. He just shouldn't. What the people need doesn't matter. What's right is. He needs someone to tell him what to do. He needs that structure. He's only human.

He's a human being. Let's not get technical here. He is flawed. He's only human.

It is a negative. He's not. Superman has no right to be that.

Yeah. But that doesn't change what Superman should do.

Not if their allowing themself to be seen as God, a god or the Messiah.

The wheelchair thing was simply a statement of his lack of a threat. The vandal aspect is still not hugely awful. He wasn't putting on someone's wall. He was putting it on a statue. Have a very great day!

God bless you all!

[The Dark Knight]

I know what she says. It doesn't change the fact that he should be none of it.

It's up to Superman to decide what Superman will do. He can take advice from others, but the decision will ultimately be his.

He's a human being. Let's not get technical here.

That's rich coming from you.

It is a negative. He's not. Superman has no right to be that.

Says who?

Yeah. But that doesn't change what Superman should do.

According to someone like you. Your view would not reflect the entirety of the populace. And nor would mine. You're not going to please everyone. Superman should therefore be judged on his behavior. And he's saving innocent people.

Not if their allowing themself to be seen as God, a god or the Messiah.

Superman being Superman does that. He's can't be anything other than what he is.

He wasn't putting on someone's wall. He was putting it on a statue.

Well,

Let's not get technical here.

Wherever he puts his tag, it's not going to be welcome. He defaced a public landmark.

[Dagenspear]

I know what she says. It doesn't change the fact that he should be none of it.

It's up to Superman to decide what Superman will do. He can take advice from others, but the decision will ultimately be his.

He's a human being. Let's not get technical here.

That's rich coming from you.

It is a negative. He's not. Superman has no right to be that.

Says who?

Yeah. But that doesn't change what Superman should do.

According to someone like you. Your view would not reflect the entirety of the populace. And nor would mine. You're not going to please everyone. Superman should therefore be judged on his behavior. And he's saving innocent people.

Not if their allowing themself to be seen as God, a god or the Messiah.

Superman being Superman does that. He's can't be anything other than what he is.

He wasn't putting on someone's wall. He was putting it on a statue.

Well,

Let's not get technical here.

Wherever he puts his tag, it's not going to be welcome. He defaced a public landmark.

I know that it doesn't change his God given free will. But that doesn't change what he should do.

I'm aware that he is an alien. But I was using the term human to define him as flawed, like humans are. That was wrong. I should have simply referred to him as flawed like a human.

Clark has religious beliefs, as far as the movies have developed, so by his understanding he knows that God says so.

No, it doesn't. People may still see him that way. But he should put himself against it.

The populace's viewpoint doesn't matter in this. They are just as flawed as he is. Saving people doesn't make him good or right for allowing this to be something, without saying something against it.

See above.

[The Dark Knight]

I know that it doesn't change his God given free will. But that doesn't change what he should do.

What someone should or shouldn't do is an opinion. Hence we get split opinion in BvS. When he arrives at the Senate hearing you see people holding pro Superman signs and people holding anti Superman signs. You're on the anti Superman side. I'm on the pro Superman side.

I'm aware that he is an alien. But I was using the term human to define him as flawed, like humans are. That was wrong. I should have simply referred to him as flawed like a human.

Yep.

Clark has religious beliefs, as far as the movies have developed, so by his understanding he knows that God says so.

Clark visits a church in MoS to seek an opinion, just as he seek an opinion from his mother in BvS. But the decision he makes is still his.

No, it doesn't. People may still see him that way. But he should put himself against it.

Where does he say he's Jesus? He doesn't. Jesus is good. Superman is good. I don't see the problem anyway.

Saving people doesn't make him good or right for allowing this to be something, without saying something against it.

So all the good he has done as a superhero means nothing because some people view him as Jesus?

[thecolorsblend]

I get that people hate him or don't and all that other stuff. I don't understand why he says nothing against it, when he should know that he should say something against it, by all accounts.

I see.

Next time maybe you can just say "I don't understand the literary concept of the Christ figure or how Snyder toyed with it, and I never will". It'll save both of us some time.

[Dagenspear]

What someone should or shouldn't do is an opinion. Hence we get split opinion in BvS. When he arrives at the Senate hearing you see people holding pro Superman signs and people holding anti Superman signs. You're on the anti Superman side. I'm on the pro Superman side.

Yep.

Clark visits a church in MoS to seek an opinion, just as he seek an opinion from his mother in BvS. But the decision he makes is still his.

Where does he say he's Jesus? He doesn't. Jesus is good. Superman is good. I don't see the problem anyway.

So all the good he has done as a superhero means nothing because some people view him as Jesus?

It isn't an opinion. The right thing is always a fact. I'm not anti Superman. I'm anti his wrong decisions.

His God given free will still his to make a decision he wants to make. That doesn't make his decision right.

Him saying it is irrelevant if he says nothing against him being Jesus. By Jesus Christ's own Words: Only God is good. Superman is flawed and not good.

If he says nothing against that.

I see.

Next time maybe you can just say "I don't understand the literary concept of the Christ figure or how Snyder toyed with it, and I never will". It'll save both of us some time.

I do understand it. It's still wrong.

[The Dark Knight]

It isn't an opinion. The right thing is always a fact. I'm not anti Superman. I'm anti his wrong decisions.

It is an opinion. Not everyone believes in the the bible as the undisputed truth, or follows the scriptures verbatim. Cavill's Superman clearly has some element of religious belief given he attends a church, but he's not a mindless sheep. He's still making up his own mind.

His God given free will still his to make a decision he wants to make. That doesn't make his decision right.

See above.

Him saying it is irrelevant if he says nothing against him being Jesus. By Jesus Christ's own Words: Only God is good. Superman is flawed and not good.

Superman is flawed and good. Jesus doesn't have the monopoly on being good.

If he says nothing against that.

Then I find your reasoning absurd. By your reasoning, if Superman saves Metropolis from nuclear armageddon but doesn't make a statement about Jesus he's a bad person.

[Dagenspear]

It is an opinion. Not everyone believes in the the bible as the undisputed truth, or follows the scriptures verbatim. Cavill's Superman clearly has some element of religious belief given he attends a church, but he's not a mindless sheep. He's still making up his own mind.

It isn't an opinion. By the nature of him following his opinion, he's following his own wants and desires and perceptions, by doing so he's no more than an animal. That's mindless of him. He can come to a decision on his own and still be wrong regardless.

See above.

It doesn't.

Superman is flawed and good. Jesus doesn't have the monopoly on being good.

By his very nature Superman can't be good on his own. But Jesus kinda does have the monopoly on that. But by the perception you provide, if what's right is an opinion to you, then by the structure of that relativism, there can't be good or bad.

Then I find your reasoning absurd. By your reasoning, if Superman saves Metropolis from nuclear armageddon but doesn't make a statement about Jesus he's a bad person.

It's if he doesn't make a statement against those worshiping him as a false idol. Have a very great day!

God bless you all!

[The Dark Knight]

It isn't an opinion. By the nature of him following his opinion, he's following his own wants and desires and perceptions, by doing so he's no more than an animal. That's mindless of him. He can come to a decision on his own and still be wrong regardless.

I can't really progress this debate without me stepping on religious toes here, so I'll try and be careful. From my perspective, I find religion to be an easy answer to every question. I also find people act with a moral superiority - with strength in numbers, telling people how to live and what to do. They're right and everyone else is wrong because an ancient book says so. Everyone knows right from wrong with or without the Bible.

By his very nature Superman can't be good on his own. But Jesus kinda does have the monopoly on that. But by the perception you provide, if what's right is an opinion to you, then by the structure of that relativism, there can't be good or bad.

That's rubbish. Superman can be good on his own, and he is good on his own. Nobody has the monopoly on being good. Helping a little old lady across the road is good. Robbing a store at gunpoint is bad. It's not rocket science. The Bible is real to you because you believe it, and that's cool. But I'm not a believer in the Bible. And then we get the whole 'oh, well, Jesus still believes in you even though you don't.' Which I think is also ridiculous. I'm of the view he didn't exist at all. Applying a personal belief to everyone as fact, as something all need to follow, is the problem I have.

It's if he doesn't make a statement against those worshiping him as a false idol.

What happens if he makes a statement and people keep looking at him as a 'false idol'? Does he retire? Keep making daily statements?

[The Laughing Fish]

I didn't expect me bringing up Superman would suddenly change the topic of what this thread is about.

But anyway...

Vandalizing a monument is so minimal in this issue. The guy is in a wheelchair for goodness sake. Regardless, his statement is completely true.

I don't care if he's in a wheelchair or not. He's nothing but a vandal with a high likelihood of being radicalized by the mainstream media. Graffiti vandals are punished. The rule of law must be upheld. How about I tag your walls with 'completely true' statements and see how you like it?

I agree. Just because you're disabled doesn't mean you deserve special consideration if you commit vandalism. And exempting crimes in the name of God is an extremely dangerous attitude to take. What's next? Do we begin to condone killing in the name of God? If it gets to that point, society has lost its moral compass completely.