Crazy fan theory about TDK's Joker

[The Laughing Fish]

In regards to this theory: some people think that characters that are against the "system", whatever that is, are automatically heroes. But that does not make it a fact, especially if your hero is a murdering sociopath. 

I believe most people don't actually "like" TDK's Joker per se - they like Ledger's performance. Which is totally fine.

But, for argument's sake, if there are people who do look up to this Joker and deem him as their "hero", while dismissing - say - the DCEU Superman as a "wannabe Christ figure", then something is broken in society.

[Dagenspear]

I believe most people don't actually "like" TDK's Joker per se - they like Ledger's performance. Which is totally fine.

But, for argument's sake, if there are people who do look up to this Joker and deem him as their "hero", while dismissing - say - the DCEU Superman as a "wannabe Christ figure", then something is broken in society.

While deeming TDK Joker a hero is nonsense, calling DCEU Superman, and other versions, a wannabe Jesus Christ figure isn't far from the truth in the way he's depicted and even talked about, by Lois, Lex, Martha and Jor-El. Superman is only a man, flawed, he can no more create real hope than I can sprout a duck beak. It's not in his nature. His shield means nothing. It reaches the point where it would go a long way for Clark to just say that he's not God in any way. We know he's religious in some way, by him going to a priest in MOS, so why hasn't he picked up on the fact that he's placing himself as false idol. When someone paints "false god" on his statue, he shouldn't be bummed that he's hated by people, he should nodding right along with the statement the guy who hates him is making by painting that. In spite of any hatred he may have, the guy is right. It's sacrilegious and blasphemous to allow this idea to exist and say nothing against it and he should know that. Have a very great day!

God bless you all!

[The Dark Knight]

So Superman is causing controversy by not saying something? It seems the guy can't win either way with some people. Superman doesn't have to denounce or defend himself at every single turn. If people are doing something in his name, or believe him to do something he's not, that's on them. It gets to the point if Superman challenged someone on a topic, the media would accuse him of infringing on the person's free speech. Superman comes down from the sky to save people. That's just how it is. The parallel is always going to be there because he's not going to stop saving people. The idea is always going to exist and honestly, Superman would be wasting his time addressing this stuff.

[Dagenspear]

So Superman is causing controversy by not saying something? It seems the guy can't win either way with some people. Superman doesn't have to denounce or defend himself at every single turn. If people are doing something in his name, or believe him to do something he's not, that's on them. It gets to the point if Superman challenged someone on a topic, the media would accuse him of infringing on the person's free speech. Superman comes down from the sky to save people. That's just how it is. The parallel is always going to be there because he's not going to stop saving people. The idea is always going to exist and honestly, Superman would be wasting his time addressing this stuff.

He has to denounce himself in some way. Him doing that would be him winning. It's the right thing to do. It's on him for accepting it and allowing it. He simply should say something against it. But the movie just lets it sit. It doesn't matter what the public say if he does the right thing. Then they're in the wrong. People doing something in his name that he actively goes against is fine. Him standing and accepting that is wrong. He doesn't come from the sky. He comes from space. He's nothing like Jesus Christ. He can't heal people, alter elements, know the future or control weather, simply by being the Son of God. He's an alien. Any perception for anything else is just false. Clark, at least, is shown to have some faith in God by going to a Church for guidance. Allowing people to view people as a god, as God, or as Jesus Christ, is an offense to God, by that understanding. He simply shouldn't be upset that someone is against that. Painting false god on his statue is a good thing. He should be cool about it. I didn't get why he was so bummed about someone doing that. Maybe he doesn't like that people hate him? But the painting that is framed as a bad thing and I never got why. He is. Superman should be bailing that guy out of jail and telling him he's right. No Superman, or any human, should allow others to think of them that way. When Batman tells him that he was never a god, despite the fact that I want to root against Batman for his violent actions, I couldn't help but just go, "Yeah, he's not!" Ugh. Sensitive subject, I'm sure you can tell. Have a very great day!

God bless you all!

[thecolorsblend]

I think this whole "savior" thing is being taken a bit too literally. The literary concept of the Christ figure is hardly new. And hardly unique to Superman.

The entire point of the movie is that parts of the public may love Superman and parts of the public may hate him. But in the end, almost nobody really UNDERSTANDS him. Some view him as just a guy, some as an alien invader, some as a manifestation of the Messiah, etc. The whole savior thing is one view among many regarding Superman.

Don't get lost in the weeds on that, y'all.

[The Dark Knight]

He has to denounce himself in some way.

No he doesn't. As Martha Kent says, Superman doesn't owe the world a thing.

Him doing that would be him winning. It's the right thing to do.

Superman isn't Deacon Blackfire.

But the movie just lets it sit. It doesn't matter what the public say if he does the right thing. Then they're in the wrong.

"We have enough problems in this city without worrying about ghosts or goblins."

He's nothing like Jesus Christ.

He doesn't proclaim to be.

Allowing people to view people as a god, as God, or as Jesus Christ, is an offense to God, by that understanding.

Human beings have free thought. And anyway, what's God going to do about it? I thought he was all about forgiveness.

I didn't get why he was so bummed about someone doing that. Maybe he doesn't like that people hate him?

Perry spells it out to the audience - end of love affair with man in the sky?

Superman should be bailing that guy out of jail and telling him he's right.

No, he shouldn't. Vandalizing a public monument is a crime and that equals punishment.

No Superman, or any human, should allow others to think of them that way.

If you think simply denouncing certain behavior is where it all begins and ends, you're living in a fantasy world.

[Dagenspear]

I think this whole "savior" thing is being taken a bit too literally. The literary concept of the Christ figure is hardly new. And hardly unique to Superman.

The entire point of the movie is that parts of the public may love Superman and parts of the public may hate him. But in the end, almost nobody really UNDERSTANDS him. Some view him as just a guy, some as an alien invader, some as a manifestation of the Messiah, etc. The whole savior thing is one view among many regarding Superman.

Don't get lost in the weeds on that, y'all.

I understand that. But the problem here is that Superman has nothing to say against it. He should. There should be stuff happening. If this is the kinda thing a writer/director wants to do, then the character has to do something and if he's a hero, he has to be against it. In Smallville, Clark verbatim says, "I'm not a god." He mocks Tess essentially calling him a Messiah figure, because it's lunacy to think of him as one. He has things to say. Clark isn't Batman, who sits in the shadows and doesn't talk to the press. He should have something to say. But he doesn't here.

No he doesn't. As Martha Kent says, Superman doesn't owe the world a thing.

Superman isn't Deacon Blackfire.

"We have enough problems in this city without worrying about ghosts or goblins."

He doesn't proclaim to be.

Human beings have free thought. And anyway, what's God going to do about it? I thought he was all about forgiveness.

Perry spells it out to the audience - end of love affair with man in the sky?

No, he shouldn't. Vandalizing a public monument is a crime and that equals punishment.

If you think simply denouncing certain behavior is where it all begins and ends, you're living in a fantasy world.

It's not about owing the world anything. It's about what's right. She also has that nonsense line about being their angel or monument and that's wrong too. He's neither of those things and shouldn't be them. He's a human being.

I don't know what that has to do with what I said, I'm sorry.

This problem is bigger than that.

But he should proclaim that he isn't. By not saying anything against it, he's condoning that idea. I don't think he believes that he is. But he can't stand there and say nothing against it. By his own understanding, he knows that that's wrong. Though my statement there I think was about you citing similarities.

Humans free thought is irrelevant to the issue. If people still think it, then there's nothing Clark can really do about, but he has a responsibility to hold a stance against that.

Yeah, I get that. But why is that a bad thing?

Vandalizing a monument is so minimal in this issue. The guy is in a wheelchair for goodness sake. Regardless, his statement is completely true.

It doesn't matter what people continue to believe for him. He puts himself against is what matters for him.

[thecolorsblend]

I understand that.

Good!

But the problem here is that Superman has nothing to say against it.

Ah. So you don't understand at all then.

[Dagenspear]

I understand that.

Good!

But the problem here is that Superman has nothing to say against it.

Ah. So you don't understand at all then.

I get that people hate him or don't and all that other stuff. I don't understand why he says nothing against it, when he should know that he should say something against it, by all accounts. Have a very great day!

God bless you all!

[The Dark Knight]

She also has that nonsense line about being their angel or monument and that's wrong too.

Be honest and provide the full quote. She says "Be their angel, be their monument, be anything they need you to be... or be none of it. You don't owe this world a thing. You never did." She's not telling Superman what to do, like you are.

He's a human being.

He's a Kryptonian.

I don't know what that has to do with what I said, I'm sorry.

Superman doesn't have to denounce himself or in fact do anything for humanity.

But he should proclaim that he isn't. By not saying anything against it, he's condoning that idea.

Everyone has their own view about Superman. In my opinion, it's insecure people who compare him to Jesus as if it's a negative. Personally, I think Superman should go full God mode (such as this gem from Leviticus 20:15 NLT= If a man has sex with an animal, he must be put to death, and the animal must be killed) but he doesn't. He has self control and suppresses any urges.

Humans free thought is irrelevant to the issue. If people still think it, then there's nothing Clark can really do about, but he has a responsibility to hold a stance against that.

You're answer is bolded above.

Yeah, I get that. But why is that a bad thing?

Devoting yourself to a selfless cause only to receive harsh backlash isn't a good thing for a person experience. Do you think it is?

Vandalizing a monument is so minimal in this issue. The guy is in a wheelchair for goodness sake. Regardless, his statement is completely true.

I don't care if he's in a wheelchair or not. He's nothing but a vandal with a high likelihood of being radicalized by the mainstream media. Graffiti vandals are punished. The rule of law must be upheld. How about I tag your walls with 'completely true' statements and see how you like it?