Batman failing to save Harvey Dent from Maroni

[The Laughing Fish]

Does anybody else like the scene where Batman replays the TV news footage, where he failed to save Harvey from getting disfigured by Maroni? I dig Batman's desperation as he leaps forward to save his friend, and how Bruce looks back at the footage with deep regret now that Dent became the deranged Two-Face. Now people might ask how could Batman know that Dent was about to have acid thrown onto his face, but I say who cares? I think we can let the excuse "he's Batman" slide this time for once.

It's probably Batman's greatest loss, following his inability to save Catwoman from herself if you do want to view BF as a sequel to BR.

[Edd Grayson]

I agree, and it's too bad they didn't show their friendship more in the movie, except in Two-Face's last line: Why yes, of course- you're right, Bruce. Emotion is always the enemy of true justice. Thank you. You've always been a good friend.

[thecolorsblend]

I always wished there could've been a longer flashback to that moment instead of old news footage of it. Then again, Batman's conflict with Two Face doesn't really revolve around the emotional baggage of Bruce's friendship with Harvey so maybe it's not necessary.

[Dagenspear]

It is a sequel to returns. But I like the scene too. It feels a little out of place, but it's not a big deal.

[BatmAngelus]

This moment is underrated. No one really acknowledges that it's the only adaptation to stay true to Two-Face's comic book origin (it's practically Detective Comics #66 brought to life) and the only adaptation of Maroni to actually do his role from the comics and scar Dent.

As for how Batman could tell that Maroni was going for it, I always figured it was like the comics where Batman saw that Maroni had something hidden on him before Dent did.

In my opinion, they should have explored the emotional baggage behind Batman's guilt over Dent turning into Two-Face, considering that they used to be allies and that Batman was too late to stop Maroni from throwing the acid. What makes it more poetic for Two-Face to be behind the Graysons' deaths, then, is that Batman probably feel guilt over their deaths as well (in his mind, if he had saved Harvey from becoming Two-Face, the Graysons would still be alive). It's this guilt that would influence him to look after Dick.

Also, there's something poetic about the former ally (Two-Face) fighting the new, upstart ally (Robin).

[riddler]

I get that it was hard to flesh out so  many characters (Chase, Nygma, Dent, Dick, and even Kilmers Bruce) but it would have been interesting if they connected Dent to batman more. I think I posted this before but it would have been unique for a superhero to have two villains with one enemies of the alter ego (Riddler vs. Bruce Wayne) and the other having a vendetta against the masked hero (Two face vs. Batman). It would have made the scene of Riddler solving the great mystery of who is batman more meaningful. I know in essence this was the case but I felt the film could have further emphasized this.

What I'd have done was play off Dent's OCD as well as loyalty to the coin;  establish a connection of Batman and Dent in which Batman wants to contain Dent but not beat him. As well have situations where Dent has Batman beaten but the coin saves Batman.

[thecolorsblend]

it would have been unique for a superhero to have two villains with one enemies of the alter ego (Riddler vs. Bruce Wayne) and the other having a vendetta against the masked hero (Two face vs. Batman). It would have made the scene of Riddler solving the great mystery of who is batman more meaningful. I know in essence this was the case but I felt the film could have further emphasized this.

If I follow what you're saying about tying Bruce more closely to Harvey, it wouldn't have emphasized the point; it would have muddied it. Two Face was gunning for Batman so playing up Bruce's friendship with Harvey wouldn't have clarified much of anything.

[Edd Grayson]

A problem is that it's been two years since Two-Face was captured by Batman in the movie, so a lot might have changed regarding Bruce's feelings about Harvey and likewise. If they had started the movie with Harvey Dent and turned him into Two-Face it would've been different. But like you guys said, they'd have to drop the focus on another character, Chase, Robin or Riddler or the movie would feel crowded.

[The Laughing Fish]

I have my reservations for how over-the-top Two-Face is in this movie, but I don't have any complaints with the way he was introduced. There's only so much screen-time characters can share for a two hour movie, so that's another reason why the courtroom flashback scene was spot on for me.

This moment is underrated. No one really acknowledges that it's the only adaptation to stay true to Two-Face's comic book origin (it's practically Detective Comics #66 brought to life) and the only adaptation of Maroni to actually do his role from the comics and scar Dent.

As for how Batman could tell that Maroni was going for it, I always figured it was like the comics where Batman saw that Maroni had something hidden on him before Dent did.

In my opinion, they should have explored the emotional baggage behind Batman's guilt over Dent turning into Two-Face, considering that they used to be allies and that Batman was too late to stop Maroni from throwing the acid. What makes it more poetic for Two-Face to be behind the Graysons' deaths, then, is that Batman probably feel guilt over their deaths as well (in his mind, if he had saved Harvey from becoming Two-Face, the Graysons would still be alive). It's this guilt that would influence him to look after Dick.

Also, there's something poetic about the former ally (Two-Face) fighting the new, upstart ally (Robin).

Excellent post. You can say it's equally poetic that Batman may have failed to redeem Two-Face, but he redeemed Robin in the end, by making sure that his influence and intervention saved Dick from entering that vengeful cycle.

[Dagenspear]

I get that it was hard to flesh out so  many characters (Chase, Nygma, Dent, Dick, and even Kilmers Bruce) but it would have been interesting if they connected Dent to batman more. I think I posted this before but it would have been unique for a superhero to have two villains with one enemies of the alter ego (Riddler vs. Bruce Wayne) and the other having a vendetta against the masked hero (Two face vs. Batman). It would have made the scene of Riddler solving the great mystery of who is batman more meaningful. I know in essence this was the case but I felt the film could have further emphasized this.

What I'd have done was play off Dent's OCD as well as loyalty to the coin;  establish a connection of Batman and Dent in which Batman wants to contain Dent but not beat him. As well have situations where Dent has Batman beaten but the coin saves Batman.

There's an allusion to that in the film actually, where batman tells two-face, "You need help Harvey." But it's not heavily played on. There's a line though that I think plays a little into what Bruce feels like is his failure with Harvey where he tells Dick, "I've dedicated my life to helping people I've never met, face's I've never seen. Well, the face's aren't faceless anymore." I don't know if it's meant to really allude to anything with Bruce, but I've found that line interesting recently.