Burton's Batman III - The Story (My Ideas)

[Batman333]

Ever since I was a kid, I've been writing fictional stories.  I was a just a huge fan of sci fi, adventure, fantasy, and most importantly comic book movies... As I got older, I would write movie ideas for fun.  Even when a movie came out and was bad, I would seriously spend hours and hours re-writing the film for a way to make it work on screen.  This is all of course a hobby.  Spider-Man 3, Star Wars Prequels, etc.... I liked to rewrite them all....

But one thing I never wanted to attempt was Burton's Batman III because its so hard to come up with anything that was Burton-esque because his imagination is so big, its hard to even get near it..  So I kinda just put it off.  But then I was watching a lot of the behind the scenes of Batman & Batman Returns and hearing the writers talk about writing the films, I think Burton just takes their story and puts his twist on it, so I figured I would come up with ideas about Burton's Batman III and just post them on this thread for some feedback and how it would look, its kind of a challenge for me as a amateur crappy writer that I am...lol.

Anyway -

Tim Burton's Batman III


-The Characters-


Batman (Michael Keaton)  - The character of Batman is that he has nearly left his life as Bruce Wayne and devotes all his time to become the Batman.  He sleeps, eats in the batcave, almost gone to the point of madness.  Alfred died years ago, thus becoming the ultimate loner.  It is as if he has retired Bruce Wayne and has totally became the Batman, sleeps during day, comes out during the night.  It is tremendously unhealthy, but it as if Bruce feels this is the only way to live his life at this point.  Burtons Batman has never been a normal character, but seems a little mentally crazy from childhood trauma, and thus leads to becoming the creature of the night.

Robin (Marlon Wayans) - Former acrobatic circus performer before his family was murdered when he was a boy (no flashback scenes, just dialogue about his orgins, ppl know Robins background and dont need to spend a lot of screen time on it) , Robin lives on the streets of Gotham.  He steals to survive, but also saves people from time to time.  Batman fights Robin when they first meet when Batman catches Robin stealing.  Robin uses his skills to escape, and Batman is fascinated that Robin is skillful.  Later that week, Batman is fighting mob criminals and gets shot, but is saved by Robin.  These leads Batman to trust Robin.  Robin's character is down to earth, a little cocky, but also alone.  He is street smart and gets by as a mechanic on the streets of Gotham.  He only owns a motorcycle.


Riddler (Robin Williams) - Edward Nygma was a child star on a trivial game show.  He was the most famous kid on tv in Gotham during his youth.  However, he lost a final round question which stumped him.  Since then, the show was cancelled, and his life did not fulfill his true potential as the smartest person in Gotham.  He works a long low paying job , lives in a rough area, tiny apartment.  His ego gets the best of him as he believes he should still be a famous figure in Gotham.  Instead, the Batman gets all the headlines and he is very envious and jealous.  An incident occurs where he possibly could get back in the news, but is completely overshadowed by Batman saving the day from the mob.  Riddler becomes enraged and decides to use his intelligence to destroy Gotham to seek attention from the media with a secret identity, which is inspired from Batman.  Nygma wants everyone to know how smart he is, but does want Gotham to know his true identity unlike Batman only if they are intelligent enough to solve his riddles.  The only way for him to make a name for himself is to put people in harm.  He builds bombs and uses them, then sends clues to Gordon.  Each single crime he commits, he gains more attention from the media.  So the bigger the crime, the more Gotham takes notice of his alter ego - The Riddler.  Although his face is not publically known, it still gives him a greater inner power than he can put his mark on Gotham City.

Two Face (Billy Dee Williams) - Harvey Dent , DA of Gotham.  He plays both sides as he is the most popular District Attorney, but has a secret relationship with one of the two rival mobs in order to eliminate the opposing mob that killed his finance as he was walking to dinner with her.  Hence, the underworld mafia gives him the nickname of 'Two Face'.   Eventually he succeeds, and the smaller mob takes over.  However the public is demanding that the police take care of the Riddler who is terrorizing Gotham.  Dent has a choice between the mob who is has a secret relationship or Batman.  He flips a coin and asks Batman for help instead.  Batman wants the name of the new mob leader...Dent gives it to him.  The mob turns on Harvey feeling betrayed for Batman's interference.  They try to kill him, but end up scarring he left side of his face.  Two Face kills the mob leader and takes over the Gotham Mafia Underworld.

Dr. Chase (Rene Russo) - Psychologist who Bruce sees after the Nygma's riddles sent to the police.  Bruce wants a criminal profile from her, but the conversation seems to change into Bruce's problems after the conversation with Robin about how he's living his life.  He finds comfort in Dr. Chase therapy.  I honestly, wouldnt want a romantic connection between the two, because I feel that would be too cliche, and I want this one to be different.

Random Notes

-Robin is responsible for helping Batman get back to being Bruce Wayne again and help him through his troubles.  I like the idea of Robin going behind Bruce's back to arrange a giant party at his mansion as 'the return of Bruce to Gotham' - the cover story is that Bruce is living in Japan for a while now.  Dr. Chase is invited of course.

-It would be interesting if Riddler & Two Face NEVER physically crossed paths, but their stories intersect, but Batman has to stop both different villains.  It makes a very unusual film in terms of bad guys dont team up to take on Batman.

-Batman eventually lets Robin in the batcave to fix his batmobile for a problem he continued to have with it.  Robin realizes how alone Batman is.  After Batman's hard fought battle from earlier that night, Bruce was shot and heals himself, but falls asleep.  This allows Robin to explore and discover the mansion above the batcave, thus revealing his identity.  Bruce catches him going through photos and dialogue scene.  Throughout the film, Robin is able to get Bruce to open up little by little, but always shut off.  He learns of his love with Vicki Vale & Selina Kyle.  Robin always does research about Bruce throughout scenes as well.

-Climax would be Riddler discovering Batman's identity and entering the batcave to kill him.  Gotham's smartest man discovers the biggest riddle of all - Who Is Batman.  Riddler is killed with a last riddle for Bruce / Robin which is the location of the kidnapped Dr. Chase whom Edward found the connection with Bruce & Chase.  However, the same clue was sent to Harvey Dent, thus him and his mob were ready to kill Batman.  Thus, Batman needed Robin's help to take out Two Face & his thugs.  Batman & Robin save the day against Two Face, saving Dr. Chase......Cut to Riddler barely alive.  He is lying down with bloody lip and notices the bat computer is playing Gotham Nightly News.  The anchors are discussing the identity of The Riddler has been confirmed as Edward Nygma, famous child star from the trivial game.  They show archive footage of him as a kid on the game show.  He smiles and dies with eyes open watching the clip.

-End of the film, Robin tricks Bruce into going into a Gotham pet store only to run into the store clerk, Selina Kyle.  The development of the character is that Bruce comes to terms that he is a person and not just the Batman and able to connect with someone who is damaged as he is, the former romantic interest. The two walk off and the bat signal appears.  Selina asks if Bruce has to leave, but he turns and looks at Robin and tells her 'Nah...I have a....a.....friend.'  "A friend ?" - Selina.  "Yeah, a good friend.  He'll take care of it.  I trust him."  Bruce & Selina walk off into the darkness.  Robin looks up in costume at the bat signal.

Character Development Notes

Batman - The main character.  We open with Bruce totally adopting the Batman persona as who he is.  He eats, sleeps and lives in the batcave.  The mansion above is not even used.  Bruce doesn't care.  His mental state of becoming the batman has took over.  However, through the character of Robin, who sort of gives him his 'Alfred' back.  Its someone that he can trust and help him.  Its also someone he can identify with as a human.  Through the movie, is all about Robin building trust with Bruce.  Bruce slowly moves from being this obsessed with crime fighting person to actually coming to terms that he is Bruce Wayne and he must deal with this duality and use both personas to live his life and find his happiness.  In the end, he reunites with Selina and walk off into the darkness with the bat signal lit, but realizing that he doesn't have to fight crime alone anymore, that he can be Bruce Wayne and have a partner carry the weight of being the Batman.  The idea that the only person Bruce could trust his whole life was Alfred, but the character arc was that he indeed now can trust Robin.  And in a very unique bit of character development, Bruce can be Robin's "Alfred" in terms of him dealing with the duality of being a crime fighter and a person.  So they actually help each other.

Robin - Street kid, has nothing but skills, finds his niche in Gotham as he is merely a floater through the streets.  Doesn't have anything and not really working toward anything.  A wasted talent.  Through his relationship with Batman, he finds that he has these skills and finds that he can help Gotham and Bruce.

Two Face - A district attorney, walking to dinner, his finance was murdered as the mafia was attempting to kill Harvey.  In retaliation, Harvey turns to the opposing smaller mob. This leads him to a life of crime.  He feels Batman is useless because he knows Batman can't be everywhere at once and didn't save him nor his finance.  Once Riddler terrorizes Gotham, Two Face in a reaction to public's demand of stopping the Riddler, Two Face does turn to Batman.  Harvey sells out the mob that helped him to Batman, which leads to the mob to turn on Harvey, nearly killing him.  Harvey responds by flipping a coin to decide whether to turn to police or to go ahead and kill the mob leader himself, which the coin leads him to.  After killing the mafia boss, Harvey takes over as the mafia boss of the underworld of Gotham.  Harvey then becomes addicted to power.  Eventually, he knows that he has to kill the Batman in order to really secure himself as one of the most powerful men in Gotham.  That leads to his ultimate doom as Batman & Robin stop him in the end.

The Riddler - A psychologically messed up individual with brains.  I think Joker held power by his mob and dangerous ways of killing ppl, Penguin held power by his rage and anger.. I think Riddler should have power by his brains in the third and final installment of Burton's Batman Trilogy.  Start the film with the origin story as Edward as a child who is the star of a Trivial Game Show, which is of course uses the question mark as its symbol of the show which Edward will later use as his own alter ego.  But I think when Edward's 15 minutes of fame is up and is no longer noticed by people as Gotham's smartest person, he really grows up mentally damaged and wants that fame once again.  But Gotham is a different place , not the one he envisioned as a boy, and this depresses him.  His life is a total mess.  As a kid, he thought he would have it all, a path to greatness, but he has a small apartment, he's broke, he doesn't have a social life, he is bullied by thugs on the streets and most importantly, no one cares about his former fame of the tv show and this bothers him the most.  There is a scene where there is a contest of some sort, maybe a science contest, which he wins easily and impresses people.  This makes him extremely happy, but just as the news is about to give him a little fame and he's going to get into his story as that child star from the Trivial Show, the news reporters pull back as Batman just fought some members of the notorious mob and skip interviewing Edward.  This infuriates him.  What does Batman have that he doesn't ?  He feels Batman is just all muscle, but Edward has the BRAIN and that is way more important than brawn. 

Later on, one of the mob uses explosives on a building and he notices news reporters everywhere and even sees the batwing fly by.  This leads him to the idea of creating his own chaos in order to get media attention.  His character develops more and more as he spirals downward to using bigger and bigger ways of creating terror through Gotham in order to get the attention that in his mind, he rightfully deserves.  After his first kill, which is an ATM, which shows a riddle for a guy who is trying to withdraw money that if he doesnt answer, he will die, which he gets the riddle (a math problem) wrong and boom.  And for you guys that really know Batman - that is an homage from the Batman Animated Show that featured Riddler.  He is a loner and now he finds that with his new scheme of terrorizing Gotham, it creates a meaning for his life, so he continues to go further and further down this dark path to recreate that fame that he once had.  He wants to show Gotham that he is smarter than them all.  He feels a vendetta against Batman for taking his fame away from him.  He feels Gotham is completely polluted with crime that there is no way to save it , but to destroy it and let it regrow.  He is a stalker and a watcher.  I kinda like the idea of Riddler being obsessed with Dr. Chase as he sees her as intelligent as him, but he gets rejected by her.  And that is actually how he figures out Bruce is Batman, through stalking Dr. Chase and her sessions with Bruce.  In the end, he makes a deal with Two Face (for some goons & money) to deliver Batman to him by having his goons kidnap Chase and having Batman arrive with Two Face waiting to eliminate Batman, but Chase outsmarts Riddler by playing with his emotions.  She tells him if he's so smart why can't he kill Batman himself.  Riddler arrives at Bruce mansion to deliver his final clue that will lead him to the Two Face trap, but with his emotional state, he sees the bat signal and this outrages him as the sign of the bat leads him to anger.  That is his turning point and that Chase words of if he's so smart why can't he kill Batman himself.  He decides to do just that, leading him to the batcave for the final battle.  The goons escort Riddler with guns blazing and Robin will have to take out the goons while the injured Batman must take on Riddler once and for all......As Riddler dies , he sees the news report of Edward Nygma as Riddler and clips of his old tv show that makes him happy as he finally got his validation from Gotham that he so desperately seeked.

Elements
The elements of this film that I really wanted to touch on is the mob crime running wild as sort of getting back to the 1989 Batman film look and style of the film.  I like the idea of just using the batwing again instead of coming up with new stupid vehicle like bat ski boat.  I like the idea of Riddler being a very different psychopath from Joker or Penguin.  That he will kill random innocent people just for his ego, to me that seems like a sick psychopath indeed that could be so much more menacing than Joker & Penguin.  Joker was just insane from the chemicals mixed in with his criminal behavior which made him a deadly combination.  Penguin was insane from his abandonment from his parents that caused an unbelievable amount of RAGE which he used once he felt that abandonment from the people of Gotham and Shrek, which led him to strike down Gotham in sort of a parallel from his childhood.  The third one would be Riddler being insane and intelligent, making it a very unique new type of psychopath in Gotham.  Killing only to satisfy this psychopathic behavior of being famous because of how pathetic his life became.  I like the idea that people could make a case for each character - Joker, Penguin, and Riddler - of which one was the most dangerous psychopath of all. 

The elements of some action scenes in Gotham would def be a big part of the film as mob figures could take on Batman.    The element of the final showdown between Batman & Riddler in the batcave would be very interesting as the first one was the cathedral , the second one the sewer / zoo.  I def want that dark climax scene.  And of course you could move the final Two Face act to a tall Gotham building somewhere, with darkness & height to mimic the first two films.



Other Notes

-I kinda toyed with the idea to start the movie off with Bruce in his early 20's in Asia where he meets Ras Al Ghul to learn how to fight crime, I like the idea to start the third film off as a prequel flash back as an homage to Indiana Jones and the Last Crusade.  But I think Riddler's origin story would set a better tone in the game show as a kid as a better homage to Batman Returns as they opened the film with Penguin story.

-I thought it would be a funny to have Robin bring Selina in the batcave at the last scene, as an homage when Alfred did it to Bruce with Vicky, but thought that is a little too obvious.

-My original idea was Riddler was a psychologist who comes to Gotham to discover the identity of Batman and uses his doctor status to release Arkham inmates to use them as his goons.  However, as I started researching Batman, I realized my idea was exactly the same as Dr. Hugo Strange.  Ironically , Robin Williams was rumored for that role when they were writing Dark Knight Rises.

-Thought about climax being a maze in an amusement park where Batman must find Dr. Chase similar to the Animated Series, but felt Riddler entering the batcave could really be haunting and climatic.

Anyway, sorry for the long post, I just really felt like throwing my ideas out there and I enjoy this Batman forum.  Any feedback would be great or what kind of story do you think would have been a good idea for a Tim Burton's Batman 3 ??

[johnnygobbs]

Great work Batman 333! 

I'll respond a bit later with a proper response giving my thoughts on your ideas for a hypothetical 'Batman 3'.

[Batman333]

Thanks johnnygobbs.

[johnnygobbs]

I really like your original concept for the Riddler as a former gameshow contestant who becomes embittered and fame-hungry.  I do have some slight issues with your concept of Harvey Dent however, because I see Dent as a fundamentally good guy before his scarring, albeit one who might have anger-management issues.  Could you elaborate more on why Dent joins forces with the mob in a way that would render his motives entirely understandable and sympathetic?  The fact that a rival mob killed his fiancé is a good start, but I still don't think it would justify alone why Dent would choose to do a deal with the type of people he's committed himself to bringing to justice.  Not unless something snapped in him, or he was working, legally, with the rival mob as informers say, against Gordon's advice, rather than collaborating with active criminals.  But perhaps the rival mob he's doing a deal with turn against him when they don't get their own way, or maybe they're tricking Dent and feeding him false information in order to put their own rivals behind bars so that they can usurp underworld power, and then they turn the table on Dent and scar him forcing him to become Two-Face.

Does your story reference the previous films at all, and if so, how is Catwoman's disappearance, Max's death and Batman being framed and presumably exonerated for murder, explained?

Also, who are the supporting characters?  Does Dent's fiancé appear in the film and who plays her?  Will she be called Gilda Gold as she was in the comics?

[Batman333]

Great feedback, johnnygobbs.  I do appreciate that...

My idea for Harvey would be that once his failed assassination caused the death of his finance, that would mark the spiral downward toward the dark side of Gotham.  I think it would be a interesting idea to have Harvey realize that the mob is so powerful, that the police are too corrupt and not enough power to take them out, so he decides to deal with the opposing mob.  The fact that there is not enough evidence to put the mob boss behind bars for the death of his finance would really make him so angry, that he would choose this road and maybe justify it as just a one time thing and he would go back to stopping crime.  But that one time deal would just keep getting worse and worse.

I wouldn't spend a lot of scenes referencing Batman Returns events because for one, Burton didn't do that with BR and Batman 89.  And two, it takes place years and years after the events of Batman Returns.  I would only connect the two with Selina Kyle character making a cameo at the end.  But the idea of the third is to really get back to the style of the first movie with the mob and crime overtaking Gotham.

Also, I know there will only be a few ppl who read this bc lets be honest, ppl normally dont care for fan fiction...But I was wondering if I could get feedback for the Batman & Robin characters and how do you feel about the development of those particular two.  Thanks!!!!

[johnnygobbs]

Great feedback, johnnygobbs.  I do appreciate that...

My idea for Harvey would be that once his failed assassination caused the death of his finance, that would mark the spiral downward toward the dark side of Gotham.  I think it would be a interesting idea to have Harvey realize that the mob is so powerful, that the police are too corrupt and not enough power to take them out, so he decides to deal with the opposing mob.  The fact that there is not enough evidence to put the mob boss behind bars for the death of his finance would really make him so angry, that he would choose this road and maybe justify it as just a one time thing and he would go back to stopping crime.  But that one time deal would just keep getting worse and worse.

I wouldn't spend a lot of scenes referencing Batman Returns events because for one, Burton didn't do that with BR and Batman 89.  And two, it takes place years and years after the events of Batman Returns.  I would only connect the two with Selina Kyle character making a cameo at the end.  But the idea of the third is to really get back to the style of the first movie with the mob and crime overtaking Gotham.

Also, I know there will only be a few ppl who read this bc lets be honest, ppl normally dont care for fan fiction...But I was wondering if I could get feedback for the Batman & Robin characters and how do you feel about the development of those particular two.  Thanks!!!!

If we're casting Billy Dee Williams as Harvey Dent does that mean he will utter the following line:





As for Batman and Robin, I really like your conception of Robin, although I'm not sure about using exposition rather than a flashback to tell his backstory since Burton is all about visuals and 'show don't tell'.  And although I like your write-up of Batman I'm really not sure he should ever get back together with Selina.  Batman Returns is powerful because it ends on a poignant note, and after everything she has done and had done to her I'm not sure this Catwoman could ever have a happy ending. 

By the way, there are quite a few of us here who like fanfiction, myself included, so don't be sheepish about sharing. 

[Batman333]

thanks johnnygobbs - I knew the Lando reference would be mentioned, lol... I find Harvey transformation to be a sympathetic one as he starts to be a good guy , but ends up as the leader of the underworld.

I think the idea of Bruce walking away with Selina is the scene that tells Bruce's transformation back to being a human rather than the Batman.  I think its the point where he finally comes to terms with being Bruce Wayne and actually talking to someone that he cares for.  I feel its a good way to end the Burton Trilogy too.  With this character of Robin being the 'next generation' of Batman and allow Bruce to live his life as a person rather than being consumed by being a creature of the night.

[johnnygobbs]

I like what you're doing with Harvey but I still have some misgivings about Bruce ever settling down with Selina, which is one of the legitimate criticisms that was levelled at TDKR.  Bruce is a fundamentally tragic character and it's thus impossible to imagine how he could ever simply settle down with a life-partner, and it is, if anything, even harder to imagine Burton's Selina being able to escape damnation after she inadvertently helped the Penguin to murder the Ice Princess, and murdered Max Shreck in cold blood.

[The Laughing Fish]

I'm going to concur with johnnygobbs and say that's a really good piece of fan fiction there Batman333. I like how you seemingly took ideas from Sam Hamm's original Batman II script and twisted them for a much better narrative. It's actually the first piece of fan fiction that I've really enjoyed to read.

I like how you emphasise Riddler's over-inflated ego and how he feels that Batman is "stealing" the attention away from him, and I love the idea of him setting up deadly clues to his true identity challenges and threatens everyone in Gotham and Batman at the same time. It's a great plotline that stays true to the Riddle's characterization as a narcissistic villain who sees himself as the only intellectual in town and thinks Batman is a thoughtless thug who can't possibly match his intelligence (despite proven how wrong he is time and time again). Making him a former TV star who felt that life robbed him of fame and recognition does help fuel his agenda too. Your Riddler is a unique villain, and gives him an edge of complexity that sounds WAY better than any of the overrated villains we've seen any Batman film over the last decade.

Alfred dying is a gutsy move, but I like how your imagined version of Robin helps get Bruce Wayne back on his feet. Keaton's Batman abandoning his public persona completely does stay true to what Burton established, since Bruce Wayne's public appearances were sporadic and only attended public events out of necessity. Aside from Alfred, Keaton's Batman truly was a loner, so having him shred his own life as "Bruce Wayne" in the beginning of the story makes sense. And Bruce reuniting with Selina Kyle as both people seem to put their differences and inner demons aside is admittedly a great reward for him, in addition of getting a sidekick to help out.

I like Robin filling in for Alfred, not only as an assistant, but a friend that gets Batman to reconnect with his life as Bruce Wayne too. Robin is a character who doesn't let his own personal demons define him, and he'd do anything that to stop Batman from falling into that dark abyss if could, like in the BTAS episode I Am the Night where Robin talks him out of giving up crimefighting and snap out of his depression. The only thing I find puzzling though is how desperate is he to resort to stealing if he works as a mechanic? Then again, I guess it says something about how miserable Gotham is if a job can't even help you make ends meet. Would his name still be Dick Grayson? I love how you suggest the movie's ending continues with the tradition of a masked character looking at the Batsignal up in the sky.

Perhaps my only reservation is putting Two-Face in the climax. I'll disagree with johnnygobbs about Dent's affiliation with the mob. Dent hasn't always been exactly innocent before his disfigurement e.g. The Long Halloween's ambiguous ending implied that he was one out of two culprits behind the Holiday serial murders. Having him work with a rival mob to get revenge over another for murdering his wife is definitely a good start to his mental decline before becoming a villain himself. But the issue I have is putting two villains in the same movie. Aside from BR, Captain America: The Winter Soldier and even Schumacher's BF to a certain extent, I find most superhero films get too crowded with multiple main villains. I'd prefer to keep Harvey in the story, but his screen time ends once he discovers his scars and Two-Face appears as the main villain in the next film.

Thanks for sharing!

Bruce is a fundamentally tragic character and it's thus impossible to imagine how he could ever simply settle down with a life-partner, and it is, if anything, even harder to imagine Burton's Selina being able to escape damnation after she inadvertently helped the Penguin to murder the Ice Princess, and murdered Max Shreck in cold blood.

I'm going to play the devil's advocate here and say Batman himself isn't quite innocent himself, because he too has some blood on his hands for all the villains he killed. Especially when he couldn't resist from taking revenge over the Joker. Sure, Joker was a dangerous menace who needed to be put down for the sake of the public's safety, but you could argue that Batman's primary concern was to avenge his parents. But in fairness, Batman never endangered innocent people like Catwoman did.

[Batman333]

Laughing Fish - I truly appreciate you taking the time to read that giant OP post I made, but the feedback was great.  Thank you again.  I was just trying to figure a way to really visualize a story which would fit Tim Burton's dark style and that challenge of having a familiar story but yet different that make a sequel successful.