Batman Unchained

[BatmAngelus]

A recent article seems to confirm and debunk certain rumors over the years on what Schumacher's third Batman film could've been:
http://www.hollywoodreporter.com/heat-vision/batman-movie-series-list-unmade-802032

While most people say it was called Batman Triumphant, screenwriter Mark Protosevich says it was actually called Batman Unchained.

While Scarecrow (Schumacher's choice was Nicholas Cage) and Harley Quinn were definitely in his draft, it turns out that they were considering Courtney Love for the role. Madonna is often mentioned in conjunction with the role and I'm wondering if she was considered too or if it was always Courtney Love and someone along the way got her mixed up with the other blonde rocker:

. The brilliant (and satanic) Prof. Jonathan Crane/Scarecrow had a personal vendetta against Bruce Wayne, while Harley Quinn despised Bruce's alter ego.

Harley, a toymaker whom Protosevich describes as "sadistic in a mischievous, fun sense," learns that her true father was The Joker. This sets her on a path of vengeance against Batman for taking him away in the 1989 film. Eventually, Crane learns Batman's secret identity and teams up with Harley to drive him insane and have him sent to Arkham Asylum.

The standout character of the film would have been Harley Quinn, who in the end finds redemption for her villainous ways. She was to be complex, conflicted and ultimately a good person underneath. While the casting process never got off the ground, Protosevich's agents at CAA set him up for lunch with Courtney Love, who was also repped by the agency and was interested in getting an acting career going.

"I think she had heard about the possibility of Harley Quinn being in the new Batman and was thinking she would be good for it," says Protosevich. "But we didn't really talk about that. We talked about a lot of other things. It was certainly one of the better lunches I've ever had in my career in show business."

Rumors that Nicholson's Joker would return in hallucinations were true but it turns out that he wasn't the only villain they were thinking of bringing back:

The script culminates with an ambitious, all-star sequence that would have seen a hallucinating Batman face the demons of his past, where he is put on trial by the franchise's previous villains.

The studio wanted to enlist cameos from Danny DeVito (The Penguin), Michelle Pfeiffer (Catwoman), Tommy Lee Jones (Two-Face) and Jim Carrey (The Riddler), all leading up to a final confrontation with the man himself: Jack Nicholson's Joker.

"Joel wanted to tie up all of the films. The Tim Burton films and his films, building up to this moment," says Protosevich.

Notice how none of the B&R villains were mentioned.

Lastly, the story would've been about Batman confronting his own demons:

During the movie, a rift forms between Batman and Robin, who comes back during the final battle to help his mentor. After defeating his demons, Bruce travels to Bali, where Protosevich read in real life monks enter a cave full of bats to show they have conquered fear. In the script, Bruce enters the cave as bats swarm around him.

Credits roll.

"There's a similar image in Batman Begins, where he discovers what will be the bat cave and it's filled with bats and they are flying around him," says Protosevich. "Not that this scene was inspired by mine, but it was a similar idea. It was a powerful image."

This could have potentially kept the Burton-Schumacher series going and given Clooney a chance to play a darker Batman. While making Harley the Joker's daughter would've been controversial, it would've made sense with the movie continuity since she didn't exist in the Burton film.

What do you guys think?

[Seantastic]

Damn, "DarKnight" sounds SO good!
Would have loved to have seen it made, I also remember hearing that there was plans for a Batman where Clint Eastwood would play him; I'm not sure whether it'd be a TDKR film or even Batman Beyond.

But I really think WB need someone behind it all, I hope Snyder takes that role; I want to see a slew of Batman films, films that lead into eachother.  Make things make sense, do what Marvel do, but have it be more consistent.
My only gripe with AOU was how Thor literally explained everything that was needed to be known in reference to Thanos, things that he could in no way know, I feel that these pieces could have easily been passed out during the last phase if it had been fully thought-out and planned.

I wanna see like cliffhangers for films; end a film with Matt Hagan being dropped into what would make him Clayface, or whatever, have criminals escape Arkham and the next film reference them, have them be a big deal!
I like to think they're doing something similar with SS, what with Batman showing up there, hopefully they have something planned for all of this.

But more on-topic I guess haha - 'Unchained' sounds good, not sure on the name but Im sure it would have been cool and I would have enjoyed it haha.  I always have liked Clooney as Batman, no matter whats said, I think he did a great job for what the film was, and if he was given maybe a darker film and a darker role he would have nailed it and become even bigger than he is now.  Hell, maybe he'd be the one to over-through Keaton, we'll just never know sadly (same can be said for Val to an extent).

Scarecrow would have been cool, not TOO big on Harley, but if it means we'd see Joker then I would be all for that.  The ending seems ambitious, with all those cameos, I doubt we'd have seen that tbh and the cave/bat swarming thing sounds SO Nolan haha!

[riddler]

Damn, "DarKnight" sounds SO good!
Would have loved to have seen it made, I also remember hearing that there was plans for a Batman where Clint Eastwood would play him; I'm not sure whether it'd be a TDKR film or even Batman Beyond.

But I really think WB need someone behind it all, I hope Snyder takes that role; I want to see a slew of Batman films, films that lead into eachother.  Make things make sense, do what Marvel do, but have it be more consistent.
My only gripe with AOU was how Thor literally explained everything that was needed to be known in reference to Thanos, things that he could in no way know, I feel that these pieces could have easily been passed out during the last phase if it had been fully thought-out and planned.

I wanna see like cliffhangers for films; end a film with Matt Hagan being dropped into what would make him Clayface, or whatever, have criminals escape Arkham and the next film reference them, have them be a big deal!
I like to think they're doing something similar with SS, what with Batman showing up there, hopefully they have something planned for all of this.

But more on-topic I guess haha - 'Unchained' sounds good, not sure on the name but Im sure it would have been cool and I would have enjoyed it haha.  I always have liked Clooney as Batman, no matter whats said, I think he did a great job for what the film was, and if he was given maybe a darker film and a darker role he would have nailed it and become even bigger than he is now.  Hell, maybe he'd be the one to over-through Keaton, we'll just never know sadly (same can be said for Val to an extent).

Scarecrow would have been cool, not TOO big on Harley, but if it means we'd see Joker then I would be all for that.  The ending seems ambitious, with all those cameos, I doubt we'd have seen that tbh and the cave/bat swarming thing sounds SO Nolan haha!

The real problems with cliffhangers is that they royally suck when they don't get resolved. Some feel that Batman Returns' ending is an unresolved ending (if Selina survived and became Catwoman again, what did she eventually do?)

Prior to the MCU the only other super hero film to have any kind of a cliffhanger were the first two spider-man films. And even those weren't cliffhangers, they were more lead ins to the next films.

Even with the MCU the majority of cliffhangers are the post credit sequences. The only two in the films themselves are Iron Man (Stark revealing his identity) and the incredible hulk (Stark indicating they are putting a team together and Banner self-hulking).

Take the amazing spider-man as an example; the second film ended on a cliffhanger which will likely never get resolved.


The ending with all the villain cameos seems interesting but I wonder why until now we didn't find out about any other than Nicolson until now? You'd think one of Jones, Pfeiffer, DeVito, or Carrey would have leaked it? I'm not sure if they'd get Carrey to reprise his role, prior to last years Dumb and Dumber sequel, the only role he'd ever done twice was Ace Ventura. He was offered quitea  few and a handful of sequels went ahead without his participation (son of mask, Evan Almighty, Ace Ventura 3, dumb and dumberer), I'm not sure if he was offered cameos in any of them. Devito also I don't believe did any sequels to his own characters. I do wonder why the Batman and Robin villains weren't set to return? Jeep Swenson (bane) died in real life but I believe Schwarzenegger and Thurman were the only two actors to play batman villains who did sequels to their own characters at any point in their careers other than Carrey. Perhaps they would have severed all ties to Batman and Robin due to the negative reception?

I do wish Clooney got a chance to play a serious Batman. Let's face it, Keaton or even Kilmer style acting would have stuck out like a sore thumb with Batman and Robin. It seems Clooney knew how hammy the film would end up so he went along with it.

[The Laughing Fish]

I wouldn't be too opposed that Harley Quinn would be Joker's daughter instead of his girlfriend. After all, every WB-produced Batman movie has done something completely different to the comics e.g. Joker murdering Bruce Wayne's parents, Ra's al Ghul training Bruce etc. I don't think it would be fair to condemn this change if people can accept those other narrative changes. But I don't think I'd want to see Courtney Love play the part.

I'm not that surprised to hear that they wanted to stray away from B&R given the negative reception that film had. There's no mention of Batgirl either; could it be the producers were planning to write B&R out of continuity?

It seems that this film was intended to go complete full circle from a series point of view. I felt BF did try a little bit to tie up Bruce's memory issues (as it was first suggested in B89, where he seemingly blocked Jack Napier out of his memory until he recognized "The Pale Moonlight" line from the scene of his parents' murders) and his determination to prevent Dick Grayson from making the same mistake of becoming a killer to avenge his own parents. But this proposed film goes even further with the alleged involvement of Penguin, Catwoman, Joker, Riddler and Two-Face. I can only assume that Batman hallucinating these villains would mean he harbors some guilt over their demise/defeat:

• Joker - the fact that avenging his parents didn't seem to put Bruce at peace.
• Penguin - possibly feels some pity for the Penguin since Bruce was the only one who witnessed his death. At the same time, Bruce may feel repulsed by remembering Oswald's "You're just mad because I'm a genuine freak" comment, that he irrationally feels that he too is a monster.  It would make a great hallucination scene.
• Catwoman - arguably the most painful experience because discovering each other's secret identities, as well as Selina being too obsessed with getting revenge over Schreck, cost them their romance in the end.
• Riddler - Bruce might have been thinking if he had paid more attention to Edward Nigma, then Nigma might never have become a psychotic maniac in the first place.
• Two-Face - failed to rehabilitate Dent from his madness and killing him spared Robin from repeating the vengeful cycle.

Am I the only one who is getting the impression that this plot sounded like the final chapter of the Burton/Schumacher franchise? Batman being victimised by Scarecrow's fear toxin forces him to confront all the villains who have caused him a lot of pain, and he has to extinguish his own guilt per each villain he faced once and for all. Come to think of it, these are quite enthralling plot points. I'm a little sad this film, if it was going ahead with this direction and script, didn't go ahead. The only idea I'd nitpick against is Batman and Robin falling out again. I bet that their falling out is based on Batman wanting to overcome the Scarecrow and his own demons by himself, making Robin feeling disrespected as a sidekick?

But I really think WB need someone behind it all, I hope Snyder takes that role; I want to see a slew of Batman films, films that lead into eachother.  Make things make sense, do what Marvel do, but have it be more consistent.
My only gripe with AOU was how Thor literally explained everything that was needed to be known in reference to Thanos, things that he could in no way know, I feel that these pieces could have easily been passed out during the last phase if it had been fully thought-out and planned.

Off-topic: I totally agree with you about Age of Ultron. The exposition, particularly with Thor, was quite unusual for a Marvel film, which tend to 'show' more than 'tell'.

The real problems with cliffhangers is that they royally suck when they don't get resolved. Some feel that Batman Returns' ending is an unresolved ending (if Selina survived and became Catwoman again, what did she eventually do?)

You can say the same thing about the Joker's fate in TDK. I doubt the Joker was intended to make a one-film only appearance in the series when the line "You and I are destined to do this forever!" was hinting that he'd return somewhere down the line in the next film. Besides, I seriously have a hard time believing that a presumably still alive Joker would go through all that trouble to corrupt Harvey Dent and intend to expose the truth to a devastated public...only to spend the rest of his life in jail by keeping quiet instead, while Batman and Gordon cover up the whole thing for eight years.

Of course, it's unlikely we'll ever know what were the original plans following Ledger's death and the character subsequently being written out for the rest of the series.

[Cobblepot4Mayor]

I've been robbed. That's my general reaction to this incredible news. I was robbed of potentially the most exciting moment in all my childhood years!!

Devito.....Pfeiffer.....Carrey....Jones.....AND.....Nicholson TOGETHER on screen in the Batman movie finale that would have ended all Batman movie finales!

Add to that Nicholas Cage (or Jeff Goldbum??) as The Scarecrow and Courtney Love (or Madonna??) as Harley Quinn (plus god knows who else, shouldn't Brad Dourif have been booked for Man-Bat too?) and I'd quite merrily hop into a Flux Capacitor powered Delorean and exchange one entire dullish Dark Knight Trilogy for these 10 something minutes of sheer Bat movie magic insanity! lol

It would blow me away as a kid to see Jack and Danny work in the same movie (' Cuckoo's Nest, Mars Attacks!, Hoffa) or even with Michelle (Witches of Eastwick, Wolf). I would certainly fantasize about the prospects of what would happen if their Bat villain incarnations had ever met onscreen. How the dialogue would have been. Who would have got along with who. Who would have resented who. A modern day equivalent of Cesar Romero driving Gorshin and Meredith crazy while Lee Meriwether groans in the background at her "underlings". So the fact there genuinely was a plan to make it really happen is nothing short of gut wrenching for me that the dream can never be reality.

In terms of Courtney Love...yeah, I could see that. Somehow though I think Madonna may have won out if she was as close to it as has been reported. I think Warners would have gone for the bigger "name", "bigger deal" therefore. Not to mention that potential commercial soundtrack (Which I certainly wouldn't have been moaning about).

That said nothing is simple. It is bad enough trying to get even 3 "Dr Who's" together in anniversary specials. So big, superstar, Hollywood A-listers? May have been quite a task convincing some of them. But Nicholson would certainly have been game and his enthusiasm may have encouraged all the rest by default. Just love the grandness of such an idea. Very nice to have Jim Carrey briefly back because fact is the public did miss him in Batman and Robin. Almost like a reward for them! And Schumacher directing Devito's Penguin? That would have been most intriguing. I'd hope Oswald remained recognizable but might a make up toning down have been somewhat in order?

Being the completist I am I would have been slightly disappointed if the villains in Batman and Robin hadn't been asked to join the party too. But being the most recent Batman film at that time the appearance of Poison Ivy and Mr Freeze would perhaps not have been quite so surprising at so soon a stage? Still, complete the saga I'd say, get em all in!

Also think Batman Unchained is a far better title than the dreadful Triumphant. I long for the day somebody decides to let us have a read of this mysterious script. I don't see what the harm would be in letting us do so as it's never gonna get made.

[Slash Man]

I would have loved to see this as a swan song for the Burton/Schumacher franchise. Batman & Robin did work well as a cap off to the series in retrospect, but this would have provided a much bigger bang.

Though my opinion might be skewed by that awesome hallucination sequence calling back to the previous villains. THAT'S what I would've wanted the series to go out on. Again, interesting that the B&R villains didn't appear, but Freeze was being rehabilitated, while Ivy was also in confinement. If Batman had a hallucination about Bane, he might as we'll seen the Black Joker Goon as well. Though out of the villains that Batman didn't see die, Catwoman was a particularly tragic case for Bruce due to his connection, and Nygma was the man who got inside Bruce's head and came close to breaking him. Actually, technically Riddler was the only one that Batman didn't end up killing.

I have no issue with adapting Harley Quinn for the story. It makes sense. The villain team-ups in the past have been pretty interesting, and having one villain out for Bruce and one out for Batman is interesting. Although it's been with Batman Forever, I'd imagine we'd get more of a connection to Harley as opposed to Two-Face after actually seeing her develop.

[riddler]

Though my opinion might be skewed by that awesome hallucination sequence calling back to the previous villains. THAT'S what I would've wanted the series to go out on. Again, interesting that the B&R villains didn't appear, but Freeze was being rehabilitated, while Ivy was also in confinement. If Batman had a hallucination about Bane, he might as we'll seen the Black Joker Goon as well. Though out of the villains that Batman didn't see die, Catwoman was a particularly tragic case for Bruce due to his connection, and Nygma was the man who got inside Bruce's head and came close to breaking him. Actually, technically Riddler was the only one that Batman didn't end up killing.

The Batman and Robin villains are the only ones Bruce had neither fear nor guilt over
Joker- killed his parents
Penguin- orphaned at a young age, kind of parallels Bruce
Catwoman- obvious
Two face- guilt over failing to save Harvey from his scarring and fear that he did the same to Robin that the Joekr did to him
Riddler- truly did outsmart and out do bruce and Bruce is partly responsible for failing to see his potential


Freeze in a sense becomes an ally helping save Alfred. Ivy didn't really tap into bruce on an emotional level. She makes him fall in love with her due to a spell.

[thecolorsblend]

This could have potentially kept the Burton-Schumacher series going and given Clooney a chance to play a darker Batman. While making Harley the Joker's daughter would've been controversial, it would've made sense with the movie continuity since she didn't exist in the Burton film.

What do you guys think?

Well let's face it, had B&R hit an extra $60 million worldwide, this movie is probably what would've been the followup.

Not sure how to feel about it, actually.

On the one hand, it might've saved Schumacher's reputation among Batman fans. But on the other hand, it would've derailed the arc the character went through. He started off as a driven loner then turned bloodthirsty then turned hopeless then resolved his grief and anger and finally became Gotham City's bright light.

Putting him back to Square Zero would've required a lot of story logic.

Then again, moving him away from a bloodthirsty loner required a hell of a lot more story logic and Schumacher pulled that off. So who knows?

[Wayne49]

Batman & Robin was profitable. I think WB would have been wise to have followed up with this film which could have dampened some of the backlash and restored the series. Quitting allowed the criticisms to have a life of their own that still has the director (sadly) apologizing to this day.

[Andrew]

Having Harley without the Joker and her being his daughter seem to me like really bad concepts, really going INO (and that being her motivation for liking Joker and thus hating Batman would probably feel weak).

Involving Arkham and villains from the past seems a natural progression of the series, although it would probably make more sense to just have Joker as a hallucination and otherwise involve the actual still-living villains (Riddler, Ivy, Catwoman, maybe retcon Two-Face as having survived).

I like the idea of Jeff Goldblum as the Scarecrow and Cage could have worked but very much not Howard Stern. It would make sense for a Scarecrow movie to involve Robin although I'm not sure what kind of new interesting tiff there could be between Batman and Robin.