Interesting

[The Dark Knight]

All this sounds like sour grapes to me.

I suspect that some are dissing The Dark Knight, a film the majority of people love, in order to be part of a "cool" backlash. Well, what do you expect on a predominantly pro Burton forum? 

[Sandman]

All this sounds like sour grapes to me.

I suspect that some are dissing The Dark Knight, a film the majority of people love, in order to be part of a "cool" backlash. Well, what do you expect on a predominantly pro Burton forum? 

Have you been on imdb lately?. It's nothing but making fun of the Burton movies and anyone that like's them you can't even go on the B89 or BR boards without being attacked or seeing nothing but stupid childish "Why does this movie suck to Batman Begins" or "Burton sucks Thank god for Nolan making the first proper Batman movie" topics, even BF B&R boards arn't safe. There's a reason i gave up on there and came here.


I have seen a few Stupid Burton fan's but for every one bad Burton fan there 90 bad Nolan one's, i mean they even gave TDK 10 out of 10 before the movie came out forcing it to the number 1 spot of greatest movies of all time when there loads more better movies then TDK. And this "cool backlash" is from a result of almost 3 years of stupid topics and idiotic fan's trying to talk up Nolan.

[The Dark Knight]

No, I haven't been on there lately. From what you say is going on there, I'm not in the game of doing that, either. I doubt those 'Nolan fans' are actually what they say. They sound like trolls to me.

[Sandman]

Yeah your right. Your one of the good Nolan fans i'm happy to say but some of the other's can be a real pain in the ass. None of what i said was meant to be hostile btw.

[The Dark Knight]

Yeah your right. Your one of the good Nolan fans i'm happy to say but some of the other's can be a real pain in the ass. None of what i said was meant to be hostile btw.

Cheers, yeah don't worry. No offence taken. I did get a bit sick of the constant troll hype posts regarding the film as well. I was more interested to critiquing the film once I had seen it, not before. Now I have, I can judge it. Naturally, I liked it.

[BurtonBatman]

Based on Bruce's reaction, I'd say that Bruce did not plan for Harvey to take the fall.  He was planning to step up when Harvey said, "Arrest the Batman." but he stops in shock as Harvey says, "I am the Batman."  Rachel couldn't believe that Bruce "just stood there" and let Harvey take the fall or she misunderstood and thought that Bruce had planned with Harvey to do that.  I'd have to rewatch.

Thats what I thought, but I've seen it twice now and still wasn't sure.  Thanks.

Also, did Harvey know Gordon was alive all along or not?

No, Batman used Gordon's death to shake sense into Dent (talked about Gordon's death being in vain) when he was interrogating the fake cop.

Also Gordon opened the van door and Dent was surprised to see him saying "Gordon! You do like to play things close to the chest."

Thanks, I missed those.

[BatmAngelus]

I picked up a copy of the script today.  I'm going to play Devil's Advocate and address a few things.

The school bus just happens to break through the wall at the exact moment that the last remaining bank robber is holding a gun on the Joker. How is everything so perfectly choreographed that the robber ends up in the exact spot he needs to be to get hit by the bus? Not realistic at all.

No matter what, that school bus was going to go through that wall at a specific time. 
The Joker knew it.  The Bank Manager firing at them wasn't going to change when the bus was coming in.
And the Joker also planned on killing that thug.  Notice that in the scene where the Bank Manager is firing, the Joker lies to the thug about how many shells the Bank Manager has left.  The thug shoots at the Manager, but the Manager actually has one more shell left and wounds the thug.  The Joker was probably hoping the Manager would take care of the thug.
Since he didn't, the Joker improvised and, knowing where the bus would come in, moved so the thug would be hit in that spot.

Then, the school bus drives out of the bank at the exact right moment to join up with a huge procession of other school buses! And there just happens to be a space for the bus to enter. Again, completely unrealistic. For this to happen, everything from the beginning to the end of the raid would have to happen with split-second precision and timing with no room for error.

To be fair, Joker probably researched when school would be out.  Otherwise, why the heck would he have used a school bus as a getaway vehicle in the first place.
As for the huge space allowing a school bus to enter from a suspicious-looking hole in the bank wall....I have no clue.

And of course, Loeb and the judge die at exactly the same time! Please?

I doubt they actually died at the same time.  It was intercut that way to save time.  This guy must not have liked the famous montage of killings at the end of The Godfather.

Bottom line: There is no way that Bruce could have known, yet somehow he does know. And on top of this, he manages to get to Dent and hide him seconds before the Joker appears. How convenient!

This is really shoddy writing and anyone with an ounce of objectivity will agree.

An interesting note is that in the script, Joker actually enters before Bruce knocks Harvey unconscious, making it more believable, obviously, that Bruce would know that there's an attack.  It doesn't explain, however, how he knows that Harvey is the target.

First of all, why would the Joker purse Dent in a completely impractical and hard to maneuver super-truck?! Yes, it makes for a great action sequence but it?s a stupid choice of vehicle.

Well, what else could he fit those weapons in or use to intimidate the police vehicles?

All this is dependant upon having a single cop guarding the joker inside the room who loses his cool, allowing the Joker a chance to escape. Laughably contrived.

Joker probably wasn't planning on that.  He was hoping to be allowed his phone call.  The fact that Detective Stephens wasn't letting him was a delay.

So, if the Joker decides to blow up a hospital in response to Reese?s TV ploy, how does he and his mob manager to rig the place with gas canisters and explosives *in broad daylight* without being seen?

You could say it was all planned in advance.  It's not like the Reese story was breaking news.  He could easily have found out that that was the story on Mike Engel's TV show.  He knew what time it was on and so he made the threat.
He also probably rigged the hospital grounds way before those scenes took place.

One other thing ? the Joker has been trying to unmask Batman for the entire film, so why would he object to Reese going public with Batman?s identity? Wouldn?t the joker welcome this?! God, it?s amazing how senseless the screenplay is.

There is a line in which Joker chalks it up to a "change in heart." 

Again, this is just me playing Devil's Advocate.  I'm not entirely tied to these opinions, so feel free to bring up counterpoints.

[The Dark Knight]

Good replies there. I'm certain all these Dark Knight criticisms can be rebutted, given we have the time for it.

[BatmAngelus]

A couple other things:

Batman jumps from the top level of the parking structure and lands on an escaping SUV. What happens? The SUV is crushed AND the impact of Batman makes it stop. GIVE ME A BREAK! Batman is only a mere mortal. He would have bounced off the car and wouldn?t have even made a dent in the roof.

Surely the body armor would've added some weight.  I'm no scientist, but Batman dropping like that with his cape and all is much different than if I dropped from there in my regular clothes.

The Joker?s mission is to find Harvey Dent. Well, he?s not that hard to find! Earlier in the film, he?s been in public many times. So why didn?t the Joker just nab him outside the courthouse or on the street or at home? Why wait till he?s at a party in Bruce Wayne?s penthouse *after* announcing to the world that Dent is a target?

Joker didn't really announce to the world that Dent was the target.  The DNA thing was a tip-off for the cops.  Clearly, the triple threat that night had to be well-planned.  It's the Joker's M.O. to broadcast, in some way, his future crimes and then make good on his claims.
To do that, Joker had to have gotten DNA samples of each of them for that Joker card he put on the dead fake Batman.  He had to have replaced Commissioner Loeb's bottle with poison and hooked up the judge's car to a bomb (not to mention intercept the cops at some point so that they'd give the judge the "UP" message). 
Let's not forget that Joker was getting muscle from the mob.  The mob had decided, after the cops nabbed Lau, to hire Joker, so Joker had to gather those men up too.
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[The Dark Knight]

Surely the body armor would've added some weight.  I'm no scientist, but Batman dropping like that with his cape and all is much different than if I dropped from there in my regular clothes.

Exactly. A reason why Batman survived the fall at the end of the film, and Dent didn't.