Did Batman create the villains?

[Catwoman]

Ok, so, I finished The Dark Knight Returns (badass freaking comic btw!) and all through it there is a debate going on about whether or not Batman is the reason for all the villains (I know that's been around like as long as he has but this is the most constant I've seen it in any comic or anything else). Like, basically, did they come about because of him? And I have to say as I was reading and thinking about it the argument that he did was kind of compelling.

So I asked myself, for instance, would Edward Nygma have put on a Question Mark costume and become the Riddler if not for Batman's costumed antics and the attention he got? And I'm struggling to come up with an answer so I wanted yalls opinions. I don't mean by what was actually in the comics, I mean in a hypothetical and psychological and everything else kind of sense lol.

For me it like goes both ways and splits off in a bunch of directions. Someone like the Joker would have murdered a lot of people even without falling in a vat of chemicals and turning into Lucifer with a smile, sure (unless you believe his story about his origin and who he was before which he says himself is probably bullsh*t) but some of the others, it's like a legit question. I guess the best answer I can come up with is most of them would have broken the law and done wrong without him, but the scale and theatrics very well could be because of him. Idk. I'm torn and looking for other opinions so I will shut the hell up and give yall the floor lol.

[Catwoman]

So much for starting an insightful discussion...sigh.

[The Laughing Fish]

So much for starting an insightful discussion...sigh.

Oh yeah? How about this:

If I remember correctly, there was a part in The Long Halloween where Gordon mentioned that none of the crazy villains existed before Batman became known, which made Batman feel guilty.

Let's not forget in the Arkham games too. If you hear one of the Riddler's patient interview tapes, he starts telling Dr. Young his crazy conspiracy theory that Batman profits from all the villains he defeats. And of course in Arkham City, Hugo Strange taunts Batman while wiping out the entire prison population: "Have you ever considered that this was all your fault? Your presence creates these animals".

Satisfied?

[Catwoman]

So much for starting an insightful discussion...sigh.

Satisfied?

Nope. lol.

I said I was looking for YALL's opinions, not a rehash of comics (and I guess I should have included video games) But thanks for at least helping me open the door, sweetie.

[The Laughing Fish]

So much for starting an insightful discussion...sigh.

Satisfied?

Nope. lol.

I said I was looking for YALL's opinions, not a rehash of comics (and I guess I should have included video games) But thanks for at least helping me open the door, sweetie.

Touche. 

But I do think those examples I mentioned illustrate your point a bit. Batman's emergence does provoke the crazies who like to steal the media spotlight away from him. And for villains like the Joker, Batman's existence even fills an empty void in their pitiful lives. Hugo Strange actually envies the Batman and is obsessed with him; even wished he could be him.

For others, Batman is a worthy opponent in a battle of wits e.g. Riddler is trying to beat him intellectually and Ra's al Ghul tries to persuade Batman into sharing his twisted ideology to restore order in the planet. In terms of romance, Batman has a bit of a fling with Catwoman, but could never approve her law-breaking methods as a thief. Especially with the murderous Phantasm - who Batman could have ended up like if he gave into his deadly desire for vengeance (according to what Dini and Timm were trying to say).

So yes, I do agree that Batman's presence does play a part in creating the villains sometimes. Although in Phantasm's case, she was created because of the Joker and the mob.

[Catwoman]

Do you think though that without Batman Andrea might have been left without hope though (this was the freaking mob, after all) and just left to grieve with no way of getting any kind of revenge? That he was a symbol of the kind of vengeance (even though she didn't know he was Bruce when she started) she needed and inspired her? Of course she took that inspiration and killed the SOBs and then turned around and tried to pin it on him. Bad form, gurl-frand. lol.

Ok ok I know, she didn't TRY to pin it on him, but the costume and everything else, what's going to be the OBVIOUS conclusion the pinheads in Gotham City are going to reach? But that's a question for another day.

BTW of course I LOVE Batsy and I love what he stands for and all that good stuff and if a few morons took that the wrong way and used it to do wrong, that's THEIR decision. That's how I feel about it. But I'm curious what YALL think.

[Edd Grayson]

I don't think he directly created them, but later on they put the city in danger just to attract his attention and try to kill him, so he gives them a reason to be, in a way. On the other hand, if there was no Batman then the city would surely be at the mercy of the mob as well as villains like the Joker.

[Catwoman]

That's right. Crime would have no doubt been there, Batsy just gave it a little flair and style lol

[The Laughing Fish]

Do you think though that without Batman Andrea might have been left without hope though (this was the freaking mob, after all) and just left to grieve with no way of getting any kind of revenge? That he was a symbol of the kind of vengeance (even though she didn't know he was Bruce when she started) she needed and inspired her?

Yes that is a very good point. It's even more telling of Andrea towards the end of Mask of the Phantasm; she is stunned that Batman wouldn't condone her desire to get her revenge over the Joker, declaring that Batman out of all people should understand what she went through.

Let's not forget that Batman's return in The Dark Knight Returns did inspire paranoia and lunatics too. In that comic, a man dresses up as Batman only to get shot to death by an overzealous gunman, and a psychotic nutjob becomes inspired to gun down a "corrupt" audience attending a porno movie theatre.

By the way, I think a more pertinent question should be asked whether or not Batman enables the villains nowadays? After all, his no-kill policy ensures that the likes of the Joker and Victor Zsasz will break out of prison and murder again, until Batman defeats them and send them back to Arkham Asylum, which only allows the whole cycle to repeat itself again.

[Catwoman]

I guess he is just the cop basically. His job is to stop them and bring them in and what happens after that is up to the system. If they get back out, it's on the system for allowing it.