Empire Poll: The Greatest Superhero Movies of All Time

[johnnygobbs]

A few months ago I may have mentioned that Empire Online were doing a readers' poll for the 'greatest superhero movies of all time'.  Well, the results are finally in:

http://www.empireonline.com/features/greatest-superhero-movies

Here's the list:

30. Hulk (2003)
29. Superman Returns (2006)
28. The Rocketeer (1991)
27. Man of Steel (2013)
26. Captain America: The First Avenger (2011)
25. Chronicle (2012)
24. X-Men: First Class (2011)
23. Thor (2011)
22. Spider-Man (2002)
21. Batman (1989)
20. Batman Begins (2005)
19. The Dark Knight Rises (2012)
18. Hellboy II: The Golden Army (2008)
17. The Crow (1994)
16. Iron Man (2008)
15. Kick-Ass (2010)
14. X-Men: Days of Future Past (2014)
13. Captain America: The Winter Soldier (2014)
12. Blade (1998)
11. The Incredibles (2004)
10. Guardians of the Galaxy (2014)
9.   Watchmen (2009)
8.   Unbreakable (2000)
7.   Batman Returns (1992)
6.   Spider-Man 2 (2004)
5.   Superman (1978)
4.   The Avengers (2012)
3.   Superman II (1980)
2.   X2 (2003)
1.   The Dark Knight (2008)

[Edd Grayson]

It seems that the voters prefer Batman Returns over Batman by a large margin, and Superman II over Superman by a smaller one. Interesting. Good to see that The Rocketeer and Hulk made the cut.

[johnnygobbs]

It seems that the voters prefer Batman Returns over Batman by a large margin, and Superman II over Superman by a smaller one. Interesting. Good to see that The Rocketeer and Hulk made the cut.

I know some people here might be upset that TDK took #1 spot.  But in view of its rabid fan popularity, was there ever any doubt?

At least Batman Returns made the top ten despite being one of the oldest films on the list and the first Burton Batman was only just behind Batman Begins and TDKR, despite all the pro-Nolan hype suggesting his films are 'infinitely superior' to the Burton ones.

I'm also glad there was none of that "the Schumacher Batman films are better than/equal to the Burton Batman films" nonsense you occasionally find. 

I might do my own rankings soon, but I'm curious to know how other people would rank their top favourite comic-book films (not necessarily 'superhero' ones).

[The Laughing Fish]

This result only goes to reaffirm what I've always thought about magazines like Empire: they have no credibility whatsoever.

I'm sorry but I can't help but rant. There might be some people who assume that the reason people who hate this trilogy – this movie especially – is because of the rabid fans. I think that's extremely naive. I for one think that this movie is a complete and utter mess. Its story makes absolutely no sense if you think about it for a second, and it pays lip service to themes that people mistaken to be deep and complex. From Fox's hypocritical objection at Batman's use of sonar technology to find Joker, to Batman's contradictory moral code which makes his refusal to kill Joker meaningless and endangers the entire town for no reason (BTW, wouldn't keeping the Joker alive risk sabotaging the whole Dent cover-up if he starts to babble on what really happened?), this film defeats every point it introduces. The whole 'people are inherently good' message boat scene scenario is complete nonsense since it contradicts people trying to kill Coleman Reese earlier. And guess what? Batman doesn't even believe it either because his decision to take the fall for Harvey in the end means he's afraid that people will go insane if the truth about Dent gets out. This totally undermines his faith in people's ability to persevere anything during the boat crisis, don't you think? I guess Batman agrees with Joker's point after all – that people will lose their minds if you break their order and beliefs hard enough? And let's not forget the little riot montage when the truth does get exposed in TDKR. Where's the so-called 'complexity' in human nature there?

I've already talked and complained about tons of things that's wrong with this movie: the inconsistent attempts at realism, Gordon's faking-his-death subplot making no sense, the incredibly rushed and insulting Two-Face arc, the pathetic ending which defeats Batman's own purpose as a symbol etc., so I'm not going to beat a dead horse. I'll just quickly say that I still can't believe that such a horribly written movie not only gets a pass, but is still considered to be a masterpiece. I'm sorry, but if you ask me, it's neither good nor great. I can't even bring myself to call it mediocre, that's how bad I think it is. I think TDK is a huge stain on the character and goes against everything he stands for. In fact, this movie is not even loyal to the Batman in Nolan's first movie – where Bruce says he wants become a symbol of hope, but then he destroys it in the next film. And BB is another film that had its issues, but in hindsight, its plot looks better compared to this.

Even worse, I've explained my reasons to lots of people who like this movie, and almost all the time they tend to have a hard time trying to dismiss the points I mention. I have no problems with anyone enjoying this movie; I've enjoyed my own share of stupid movies after all. But if people do acknowledge that there are deeply flawed issues with this movie, then I seriously wonder how they could insist it's the best comic based-movie of all time, let alone one the best movies of all time.

BTW, Superman II ahead of Superman '78? X2 in second place? Really? Get the fark out of here.

[Edd Grayson]

I agree with much of what Laughing Fish has said. I think it would be interesting if some of us here made a personal ranking of comic book films. I'll start with my top five for now:

1.Batman

Batman is the film that really started my appreciation for comic book films. I loved because it was dark and fun, the perfect combination for a Batman movie if you ask me. Its great parts easily make up for the smaller flaws. And I must say I liked having the Joker be the Waynes' killer, for two reasons: 1. It provided some history that was needed for a more meaningful confrontation between Batman and Joker and 2. He killed the Waynes when he was just an ordinary criminal and not yet the Joker, so I don't see any significant difference between Jack Napier being the killer and Joe Chill being the killer in this regard.

2. Batman Returns

Batman Returns is darker and I like it for that. No matter what the haters say, the presence of three villains made for an awesome movie. Keaton, Pfeiffer, De Vito and Walken were all great, and the supporting cast worked well too. The main complaint about this movie seems to be that Batman doesn't appear in it enough or that we don't learn anything new about it, but I simply love the way he's portrayed here. He might not have the most scenes but all of them are quite memorable.

Some days I like Batman Returns better, others I like Batman, so first and second place are for me almost inter-changeable.

3. Superman: the Movie

I grew up with the Max Fleischer Superman cartoons and when I saw this movie I got the feel of those cartoons and so much more. Richard Donner really made a memorable film that in my opinion is still one of the best ever. It really transports you in the character's world, which I feel Burton's Batman movies also accomplished, and the casting was excellent. I still picture Reeve as Superman and Marlon Brando as Jor-El everytime I think of those characters.

Looking back, maybe I'd like some things to be a little different, like Lex Luthor being more of a threat than a comical villain, nonetheless I still love Gene Hackman in the role.

Maybe it's because of the problems that plagued the sequels, but I don't think we got a better Superman movie than this one to date.


4. The Avengers

The climax of Marvel's Phase One did what no other comic book film had done before in bringing together a team of superheroes but I admit I wasn't that enthusiatic about a movie with so many characters, and unlike the Justice League who got an awesome animated series, The Avengers didn't really feel familiar to me. I felt that a lot could have gone wrong but the movie managed to exceed my expectations as well as dispel my worries from the start. I'm usually more of a DC fan and from Marvel I like Spider-Man, but this movie especially made me care about Marvel's other heroes.




5. Captain America: The Winter Soldier

I wasn't sure what more could they have done with the character after we got his origin and his involvement with The Avengers, but I ended up being blown away by this. They've managed to bring back elements from the first movie as well as other Avengers characters and mix them in a very entertaining movie with action, plot twists, humor, character development as well as emotional moments. We see Peggy and Bucky, who were very important people to Steve, radically changed. It was great to see him react to that most of all.

[The Laughing Fish]

I'm not very good at ranking my favourites for anything, so I'll just list my top four in alphabetical order:

Batman (1989) - The right blend between fun and darkness, as Edd already explained. It helped that they got the right actors for the roles too.

Captain America: The First Avenger (2011) - As good as Avengers and Winter Solider are, TFA ranks my favourite because its tone reminds me of your adventurous blockbuster movie i.e. Indiana Jones. And Cap is my favourite on-screen hero out of all the Marvel films.

Spider-Man 2 (2002) - The movie that did the "superhero retires and returns" trope justice.

Superman (1978) - Christopher Reeve was outstanding, and I happen to think it captures the right blend between humour and drama, like B89. For all the goofiness of everything that Lex and Otis do in the movie, there's also the destruction of Krypton and Superman's despair over Lois's death.

5. Captain America: The Winter Soldier

I wasn't sure what more could they have done with the character after we got his origin and his involvement with The Avengers, but I ended up being blown away by this. They've managed to bring back elements from the first movie as well as other Avengers characters and mix them in a very entertaining movie with action, plot twists, humor, character development as well as emotional moments. We see Peggy and Bucky, who were very important people to Steve, radically changed. It was great to see him react to that most of all.

I'll go one better by saying that Winter Soldier did everything that TDK failed to do: introduce themes and ideas that played a part in the story coherently.

The themes in that film i.e. trust, surveillance, conspiracy are reflected both in the dialogue AND in the action. For example, Cap, who regards himself as a freedom fighter, questions S.H.I.E.L.D. for taking drastic measures to fight terrorism with its satellite defense system, whereas Nick Fury argues that it's a practical solution to prevent chaos around the world. That's a perfect example of a clash of ideology. It's simple, but effective. And when S.H.I.E.L.D. is discovered to be compromised by HYDRA later on, HYDRA is planning to use the defense system to eliminate anyone who threatens its plans for global domination. And since Fury can no longer trust anyone inside S.H.I.E.L.D. except for a few people, he fakes his death and goes into hiding permanently, and goes after HYDRA on his own.

When you compare to those events in TWS with those in TDK, you realize that TDK introduced 'ideas' only to make the film look clever than it actually was, without really exploring any of such ideas, or even reflect to what was actually going on in the story. Fox complains spying is wrong? Yeah well so is aiding and abetting a vigilante, and using sonar tech to kidnap a Chinese citizen.  And it was quickly forgotten about afterwards. And once again, these things only muddled the characters' actions.

[johnnygobbs]

These are my favourite comic-book movies at the moment (and by comic-book movies, I mean any theatrically-released film adapted from source material that originally began as a comic-book, comic-strip or graphic novel, and thus my list doesn't simply include superhero films, nor does it include superhero films that were not adapted from comic-books/comic-strips/graphic novels, like The Incredibles):

My Top 20:

1.The Road to Perdition
2.Batman (1989)
3.The Avengers
4.The Dark Knight*
5.Guardians of the Galaxy
6.The Rocketeer
7.Batman: Mask of the Phantasm
8.Dick Tracy
9.Spider-Man (2002)
10.Hulk
11.Captain American: The Winter Soldier
12.The Adventures of Tintin: Tintin and the Secret Unicorn
13.Captain America: The First Avenger
14.Superman II
15.Batman Returns
16.Addams Family Values
17.Superman
18.Spider-Man 2
19.Iron Man 3
20.The Dark Knight Rises

Honourable Mentions (in chronological order): Flash Gordon, The Addams Family, The Mask, Blade, X2: X-Men United, Hellboy, Sin City, Batman Begins, A History of Violence, Iron Man, The Incredible Hulk, Hellboy 2, Watchmen, Iron Man 2, Tamara Drewe, The Amazing Spider-Man, Dredd, X-Men: Days of Future Past

My Bottom 5:

1.Spawn
2.Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles 2: The Secret of the Ooze
3.Barb Wire
4.Return of the Swamp Thing
5.The Spirit

Dishonourable Mentions (in chronological order): Superman III, Supergirl, Howard the Duck, Superman IV: The Quest for Peace, Judge Dredd, Tales from the Crypt: Bordello of Blood, Prince Valiant, Virus, The Punisher (2004), Catwoman, The Fantastic Four (2005), Ghost-Rider, Alien v Predator: Requiem, Jonah Hex, Green Lantern


* My apologies to The Laughing Fish

[Edd Grayson]

Great choices, Laughing Fish and Johnnygobbs.

I agree about TWS and TDK, basically I think there were better comic book movies than TDK before and there are certainly better movies now. I don't even dislike it that much, but I don't think it's really that great.

I haven't seen any of Johnny's Bottom 5, but maybe I should be glad I didn't. 

I'll continue my ranking with the next five in my list, where tastes might differ:

6. X-Men: First Class - I don't know about others, but for me this was the first X-Men film that actually felt like one. I don't hate the ones vefore it, but I mostly underwhelmed by them. Back to First Class, it was the X-Men film I always wanted to see. Fassbender, McAvoy, and Lawrence were all great and made me care about the characters. It wasn't afraid to be fun and to showcase the mutants' powers as well as tackle the problems of fear of the unknown and discrimination, that's what I felt the older films lacked for the most part.

7. Hulk (2003): I stayed away from this movie after reading a lot of bad reviews on it from both fans and critics, but when I finally watched it closely, I found it to be one of the best comic book films out there. The visuals and effects are good, the story is engaging and quite dramatic, the main actors were all well cast, especially Nick Nolte as David Banner who I thought puts some of the newer comic book villains on film to shame. People mostly complain about the lack of action... well, I never felt like the movie was boring or that Hulk wasn't in it enough. Ang Lee did a much better comic book film than Singer or Nolan in my opinion.


8. Guardians of the Galaxy: It looks like Marvel can do more than just one superhero team and make it work. The characters were likable and the movie had the right mix of comedy and action to make it work. It may not be the most thought-provoking film Marvel Studios came up with, but it's a very fun ride.  My only real complaint has to be the villain being quite unoriginal, but I hope things will only get better from here. I'm quite excited about GotG 2.

9. Superman II. I wish there had not been problems between Donner and the producers and he had finished the film properly, but even so, the theatrical cut by Richard Lester is a very satisfying sequel to the 1978 classic and a  I really Terrence Stamp as General Zod and Sarah Douglas as Ursa especially. Gene Hackman as Lex was still welcome as comic relief and had some great lines and the way the three were defeated was quite clever and very comic book-like.

10. X-Men: Days of Future Past: I was little worried that they'd mess up this movie given the time travel and the discontinuity between First Class and the first films, but I was really pleased by this film. I thought the future scenes were effective in showing the importance of Wolverine's mission and the poast scenes provided the more light-hearted moments. Mystique and Xavier's internal struggles and are the best parts for me, but Magneto and Wolverine also work well in the film.

[The Dark Knight]

Batman
Batman Returns

^ These will always be the closest to my heart.

Spider-Man
Spider-Man 2
Spider-Man 3

^ This will always be 'my' Spider-Man.

Iron Man
Iron Man 2
Iron Man 3

^ RDJ is possibly the best comic book actor of all time.

Captain America: The Winter Soldier
Captain America: The First Avenger

^ I can't fault any of these two films. Civil War is going to rock, too.

[Grissom]

Any list that doesn't include Burton's '89 classic or has it too low is very ridiculous or unfair.

Batman is the most influential comic book based film still after almost 26 years. They don't want to admit it but every other superhero film to come out after owes a HUGE debt of gratitude to Batman 1989!