Val Kilmer Appreciation Thread

[The Laughing Fish]

I remember Joe Eszterhas, a screenwriter who wrote many Hollywood blockbusters and known for recording one of Mel Gibson's drunken tirades, had badmouthed a lot of big names in the industry. Including Kilmer.

Val Kilmer is an imbecile. Asked by the Academy to nominate the three best film moments of the century, Kilmer nominated three of his movies. One of them was Batman Forever.

Source: https://www.nydailynews.com/archives/gossip/devil-details-eszterhas-book-article-1.549767

If this is true, I like Kilmer even more, what a boss! The Oscars are a load of pretentious rubbish anyway.

[thecolorsblend]

I remember Joe Eszterhas, a screenwriter who wrote many Hollywood blockbusters and known for recording one of Mel Gibson's drunken tirades, had badmouthed a lot of big names in the industry. Including Kilmer.

Val Kilmer is an imbecile. Asked by the Academy to nominate the three best film moments of the century, Kilmer nominated three of his movies. One of them was Batman Forever.

Source: https://www.nydailynews.com/archives/gossip/devil-details-eszterhas-book-article-1.549767

If this is true, I like Kilmer even more, what a boss! The Oscars are a load of pretentious rubbish anyway.

This from the guy who wrote Showgirls. Joe Eszterhas is in no position to criticize anybody for anything.

[The Dark Knight]

I'd like to touch upon a couple of scenes that resonant with me from Forever.

1. Batman rises from the flames

A short sequence, but one that symbolizes the unstoppable force that Batman truly is. He's put into a deathtrap full of gas, which is then ignited. Using his cape to shield himself from the fire is simple but impressive. In the spirit of Adam West, Batman pretty much has a solution to every problem he's faced with. But the money shot is when he runs onto the platform, glaring at Two-Face. Yes, he is then buried under sand in a weakened condition. But he can only ever be halted, not permanently stopped. The sand burial and subsequent rescue humanized Batman in a way similar to the B89 batwing crash. He's obviously a hero and you feel sympathy for the guy after all he's endured.

2. Thumbs up

This scene has long been a meme. But I won't forget the feeling I had upon first seeing it. Context matters. Dick ran away, Chase was kidnapped, the batcave had been destroyed, Bruce was in a coma and the villains had their lair at full power. Pretty high stakes for ANY Batman story. That atmosphere is felt when Gordon turns on the batsignal, only for it to be blotted out by the Riddler's signal. The villains are in charge and they're flaunting it.

"He's not coming. Shut it down." At this point, all hope for law enforcement and thus the City seems to be lost.

But then the Batman theme slowly begins to swell. Gordon puts up his hand in anticipated hope.

"Wait a minute, wait a minute!" A smile fills his face as the Batwing, at full speed, shatters the corrupted Riddler batsignal, restoring its purity. Gordon cheers, yelling "go, go, go!" And then we gets that thumbs up from Batman, as Gordon laughs and shakes hands with his fellow officer. Hope has returned. Batman AND Robin are coming for the villains, and Gordon knows the City will soon be back in business.

[The Laughing Fish]

A Schumacher Cut Twitter account is planning to celebrate Kilmer's portrayal this Monday.



https://twitter.com/CutSchumacher/status/1291882998284132357/

I'm convinced deep down, most people liked Kilmer in the role than they might be willing to admit. In the meantime, here is this picture of Kilmer's Batman, taken from the Two-Face bank heist scene.



I've never seen it before, it's a great shot.

[The Dark Knight]

Val celebrates 26 years of his Batman film:

https://twitter.com/valkilmer/status/1405180026027266049

Has it really been 26 years since Batman Forever? I always love learning more about this character. So complex and nuanced. Here's one you might find fun, especially if you're a fan of Frank Miller's Batman: Year One. Bruce Wayne becomes Batman at age 26. Forever yours

I really want the Forever director's cut to be made available. In all honesty it would be better than most CBMs being made today. A dream scenario would be an announcement at 2021 Fandome, and dreaming even harder, a Batman '95 comic series. But I don't see the latter happening for years, if at all, as there's now a heavy push for Keatonverse continuity.

[Silver Nemesis]

Val celebrates 26 years of his Batman film:

https://twitter.com/valkilmer/status/1405180026027266049

Has it really been 26 years since Batman Forever? I always love learning more about this character. So complex and nuanced. Here's one you might find fun, especially if you're a fan of Frank Miller's Batman: Year One. Bruce Wayne becomes Batman at age 26. Forever yours

I've lost count of the number of times I've seen people incorrectly state that Bruce is 25 when he first becomes Batman in Year One. Val is absolutely correct here – the YO Bruce is 26 when he first dons the cowl, not 25. He's 25 at the start of that year, when he first returns to Gotham in January.

Bruce's Wayne's birthday is February 19th.

Which means he turns 26 a few weeks later. He first dons the cowl in April. His age is confirmed when we are told that 18 years have passed since his parents were killed.

Bruce is 8 when his parents died, which means he must be 26 when he first dons the costume.

The Golden Age Earth-Two Batman, on the other hand, was born on April 7th 1915, which means he was 24 when he started his career in May 1939.

The Burtonverse Batman is older than his comic book counterparts when he begins his crusade. Keaton was 37 when he shot Batman '89, but according to Sam Hamm's original script Bruce is meant to be 35 in that movie.

If we take The Dark Knight Returns as canon, then the Miller Batman quit fighting crime when he was 45, only to return after a ten year hiatus when he was 55. So that means he was active as Batman for about 19 years. If The Flash (2022) confirms that Keaton's Batman has been fighting crime nonstop since the events of Batman Returns, as many of us are hoping, then he will have been protecting Gotham from the age of 35-70. That's 35 years – 16 years longer than the Miller Batman, and 33½ years longer than the Nolan Batman.

I really want the Forever director's cut to be made available. In all honesty it would be better than most CBMs being made today. A dream scenario would be an announcement at 2021 Fandome, and dreaming even harder, a Batman '95 comic series. But I don't see the latter happening for years, if at all, as there's now a heavy push for Keatonverse continuity.

I wouldn't have objected if they'd kept the Burton and Schumacher universes together, but I can't deny I'm excited by the possibilities that have been opened up by their separation. As I've stated in other threads, I'm particularly excited to see the Billy Dee Williams Two-Face finally come to fruition. He had a good setup in the 1989 film, where Dent was established as a charismatic and courageous DA who was clearly starting to buckle under the pressure the criminal underworld was putting on him. Now we'll finally get to see him confront his destiny in the B89 comic, and hopefully he'll at least make a cameo in The Flash as well. There's no mention of the Burtonverse renaissance on Williams' social media pages, which in itself is slightly suspicious, and most of his recent posts appear to be gym related. Is he training to get in shape for The Flash? I hope so. I know he's in his mid-eighties, but with good make-up effects and a convincing stunt double he could still be a badass Two-Face and a worthy successor to Nicholson's Joker and DeVito's Penguin.

Williams was the first actor to play Dent in live action, and if he does appear in The Flash then he'll be the first actor to have played the character in two live action movies (and three theatrical films if you count The Lego Batman movie). He could still make his mark as one of the best screen versions of Two-Face to date. The Nolan version had the pathos and drama down, but altered Dent's psychological profile. The Schumacher version mostly had the psychology down, but lacked the pathos and drama of the comic version. Williams' Two-Face could combine the best of both – accurately depicting Dent's dual personality and obsession with binary-themed crimes while preserving the tragic and intimating qualities that make the character such a compelling villain. Between the new B89 comic and the possibility of him appearing in The Flash movie, the potential's there for Williams' iteration to become one of the most memorable versions of Two-Face yet.

As for the future of the Schumacherverse, I agree that a comic's probably the best way to go. Val's health issues make it unlikely he'd be able to voice Batman in an animated film, but a comic would be perfectly viable. If the Burton films no longer precede the Schumacher movies, then maybe the Batman '95 comic should be a prequel instead of a sequel. Schumacher said he originally wanted to make a cinematic version of Year One. Perhaps some of his unused ideas for that project could form the basis of the prequel comic. If the events of Batman '89 are no longer canonical to that universe, then let's see how Kilmer's Bruce first met Gordon and established himself as a trusted crime fighter. If Pfeiffer's Catwoman is no longer canonical to the Schumacherverse, then a new version could appear as part of a campy retelling of the Year One story. Chase alludes to "skin-tight vinyl and a whip" in BF, so Kilmer's Batman has clearly faced Catwoman. What would a Schumacher version of Selina be like?

There are also those rumours of a third Batman besides Keaton and Affleck making a cameo in The Flash. If that does happen then I've got a feeling it's going to be Pattinson, but it would be awesome if it turned out to be Val. They could even get O'Donnell to put in an appearance as Nightwing. I doubt this will happen, but it would be a great way of appealing to nineties nostalgia and clearly establishing that the Burton and Schumacher universes are separate, thereby paving the way for a Batman '95 comic. Even if that doesn't happen, I don't see why we shouldn't get a director's cut of Batman Forever at some point. The success of the JL Snyder Cut has demonstrated that there's a market for new edits of older DC movies. Whenever I watch BF now, I generally watch the virtual workprint fan edit rather than the theatrical cut. But a director's cut might be better than either of those.

[The Dark Knight]

If we take The Dark Knight Returns as canon, then the Miller Batman quit fighting crime when he was 45, only to return after a ten year hiatus when he was 55. So that means he was active as Batman for about 19 years. If The Flash (2022) confirms that Keaton's Batman has been fighting crime nonstop since the events of Batman Returns, as many of us are hoping, then he will have been protecting Gotham from the age of 35-70. That's 35 years – 16 years longer than the Miller Batman, and 33½ years longer than the Nolan Batman.

The childhood Batman endured throughout the years, just as he did against Ray Charles. Fighting longer than any other Batman would very much be in his spirit, putting him into legend status.

If the Burton films no longer precede the Schumacher movies, then maybe the Batman '95 comic should be a prequel instead of a sequel.

For me the Burton content still happened in the Schumacher duology, but when things progressed past Returns the timelines diverged. That makes the most sense to me, and I think having a brand new origin story for the Schumacherverse would feel very odd. My comic series idea would be about the journey to 1997's Batman and Robin, which could involve Kilmer driving the Clooneymobile, pushing the idea this is the same universe despite the change in lead actor.

There are also those rumours of a third Batman besides Keaton and Affleck making a cameo in The Flash. If that does happen then I've got a feeling it's going to be Pattinson, but it would be awesome if it turned out to be Val.

I'm up for either but a Val cameo would bring down the house for children of the 90s. The guy clearly embraces Batman as a part of his life, and has interest in the mythology and psychology. I respect that.

Even if that doesn't happen, I don't see why we shouldn't get a director's cut of Batman Forever at some point.

Akiva Goldman's recent comments about viewing a director's cut gives some hope. I was half expecting an announcement at last year's Fandome, and was disappointed when it didn't come to pass. Let's see what happens later this year.

[Slash Man]

The Burtonverse Batman is older than his comic book counterparts when he begins his crusade. Keaton was 37 when he shot Batman '89, but according to Sam Hamm's original script Bruce is meant to be 35 in that movie.

If we take The Dark Knight Returns as canon, then the Miller Batman quit fighting crime when he was 45, only to return after a ten year hiatus when he was 55. So that means he was active as Batman for about 19 years. If The Flash (2022) confirms that Keaton's Batman has been fighting crime nonstop since the events of Batman Returns, as many of us are hoping, then he will have been protecting Gotham from the age of 35-70. That's 35 years – 16 years longer than the Miller Batman, and 33½ years longer than the Nolan Batman.

Did Batman only start within the same year as the events of the movie? I think that part is up for debate, seeing as it's referenced that there were multiple sightings beforehand, but this was his most high profile case that ultimately confirmed his existence to the public.

Granted, logic says it wouldn't be as long as ten years since it's implausible that Gordon would have never seen Batman at all in that time. But who knew how long it took for his presence to be built as an urban legend to scare smalltime crooks and set Knox up on a chase. Also, I've heard Keaton was interested in doing a backstory as a potential third Batman film. This would no doubt set him up a few years before Batman.

Also, it's strange to imagine the Schumacher stories now being split into a separate continuity. While it's clear that the '89 comic will take place in an elseworlds continuity from the movies (on account of Robin and Two-Face), I don't think the inverse applies to the Schumacher stories retroactively becoming it's own timeline. That simply goes against the filmmakers original intentions. I'm willing to suspend disbelief for the 89 comic because we were given every indication that a continuation of Burton's Bat would be vastly different from Schumacher's, and the original screenwriter's contribution just completes the sense of authenticity.

[The Laughing Fish]

LOL, how did anyone miss this? 

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.hollywoodreporter.com/movies/movie-news/val-kilmer-batman-oral-sex-catwoman-harley-quinn-1234969038/amp/

[Silver Nemesis]

Did Batman only start within the same year as the events of the movie? I think that part is up for debate, seeing as it's referenced that there were multiple sightings beforehand, but this was his most high profile case that ultimately confirmed his existence to the public.

Granted, logic says it wouldn't be as long as ten years since it's implausible that Gordon would have never seen Batman at all in that time. But who knew how long it took for his presence to be built as an urban legend to scare smalltime crooks and set Knox up on a chase. Also, I've heard Keaton was interested in doing a backstory as a potential third Batman film. This would no doubt set him up a few years before Batman.

Bruce could have been active for a longer period of time. I assume the Batman persona is relatively new though, since it was clear from his confrontation with Eddie and Nick that he was actively trying to announce his existence to the criminal underworld, yet he was still not widely acknowledged as being real. If he was active for more than a couple of months before the events of Batman 89, then I'd imagine he was doing so without the Batman persona, similar to the scene in Year One where he first encounters Selina and her pimp Stan.