Val Kilmer Appreciation Thread

[The Laughing Fish]

We might as well discuss some of our favourite scenes with Kilmer in this movie since this is the appropriate thread to discuss them.

I have two scenes that I did like:

1) Where he tries to talk Dick out of taking revenge over Two-Face because it would only lead him to a path of self-destruction (as if he knows from first-hand experience, should you choose to consider this as a real sequel to Batman Returns), and;

2) He shoulder barges into Chase Meridian's office thinking she was in trouble and breaks the door in the process...only to discover that she had been working out. I can imagine Keaton playing that same level of awkwardness that Kilmer had.

[The Laughing Fish]

I saw this on Kilmer's Twitter page.

Look what I found. What a great gift one of my fans sent me...#batmanforever #valkilmer #batman #brucewayne #movies #cerealbox #actorslife

https://twitter.com/valkilmer/status/1032729740161953792

[thecolorsblend]

One of the things that works for me is how Kilmer brought a sense of desolation to the character during his private moments. That bit about twenty minutes into the movie where Gordon calls Alfred to let him know about the "accident". Bruce sits staring at the TV, his failure to stop Two-Face the night before and, now, his failure to save Harvey from the acid both fresh in his mind.

Maybe I'm projecting more onto the performance than it deserves but there's an emptiness to Bruce's soul that's so apparent in that quick little shot. So hopeless. So listless. He can't go backwards but he can't move forward either.

He's good at covering up his pain though. When he had his meeting with Stickley and Nygma earlier, he was the outgoing Mr. Nice Guy. But when others aren't around, he doesn't have to pretend like he doesn't want to die.

He was angry and vengeful in B89 and BR. But here in BF, he's now experiencing the remorse that accompanies his actions. Bruce has a conscience and its eating him alive. His conscience wants him to quit but his thirst for vengeance won't allow him to stop.

The scene at Wayne Enterprises with Nygma and the quick shot of Bruce watching TV are probably the best representations of the conflict that's slowly killing Bruce Wayne for a big part of the movie.

Sure, that stuff gets verbalized in the Batcave with Dick when Bruce warns him against seeking vengeance against Two-Face... but I like it better when those things are left unspoken.

[Catwoman]

I saw this on Kilmer's Twitter page.

Look what I found. What a great gift one of my fans sent me...#batmanforever #valkilmer #batman #brucewayne #movies #cerealbox #actorslife

https://twitter.com/valkilmer/status/1032729740161953792

Makes me want some Corn Pops. Not THOSE Corn Pops of course (yeeek!) but a fresh box.

That pic reminds me of part of what I love about Batman. When something big is happening, everyone gets involved. He's on cereal boxes, race cars, everywhere. Makes Kitty happy.

[The Laughing Fish]

More than a week ago, I mentioned in another topic on the forum how comic book artist Paul Gulacy models Batman's cowl after the Bob Ringwood design, and colors said that he even adapted Kilmer's likeness for a sub plot in No Man's Land. If Gulacy has an appreciation for Kilmer, it's very obvious he's paying homage to him in this panel from the comic Year One: Batman/Ra's al Ghul. As you can see in the second panel above, Batman holding the rope in that comic is very identical to the way he was grabbing onto the chain during the helicopter scene in BF.




It's very rare to see somebody in the comics industry who gives props to Kilmer, let anything associated to a Joel Schumacher movie.

[The Dark Knight]

If there's an underrated Batman actor it's Val Kilmer, and he's worth advocating for. Traits of Keaton remain, but they are expanded upon in a way that makes this portrayal unique to Val. And for that I'm proud to include him along with the others (West, Keaton, etc) in a way that I'm not inclined to with Clooney. He has more of the traits that I admire, and Batman Forever is also the better movie. It's a broken record but if the film had all the deleted scenes reinstated it would be even better.

[thecolorsblend]

If there's an underrated Batman actor it's Val Kilmer, and he's worth advocating for. Traits of Keaton remain, but they are expanded upon in a way that makes this portrayal unique to Val. And for that I'm proud to include him along with the others (West, Keaton, etc) in a way that I'm not inclined to with Clooney. He has more of the traits that I admire, and Batman Forever is also the better movie. It's a broken record but if the film had all the deleted scenes reinstated it would be even better.

It is a real shame that Kilmer has been virtually forgotten as a Batman actor. It was a big deal back in 1994 when it was announced that he was taking over for Keaton. And when the movie came out a year later, the general attitude seemed to be that the character was in good hands. But a mere ten years later, people had already forgotten about him.

If he'd turned in a bad performance, I could understand why that happened. But his work is first rate This is completely illogical. And yet it happened anyway.

[Edd Grayson]

I have to add that I like Val Kilmer as Batman more and more as time goes by and I visit the film again. Certainly an underrated Batman actor.

[Silver Nemesis]

There is a very strong argument to be made that Val Kilmer was objectively the best Batman actor of the nineties (not counting Conroy).

If nothing else, he was physically closer to the comic book Batman than Keaton or Clooney were. None of the nineties Batman actors were muscular, but at least Kilmer was naturally broad shouldered and looked as though he'd done some cardio and perhaps a little light weight training. Online sources peg his height at around 5'11½-6'0, which is only slightly below the 6'1 height of the Golden Age comic book Batman.

He was also more convincing as a martial artist than Keaton or Clooney were. According to Bob Ringwood:

"Val really worked hard on his body and martial arts. In fact, the first martial arts sequence you see in the movie, a bank job that Two-Face is trying to pull off, Val did almost if not all of everything you're seeing, the kicks and everything - in the suit and the cape, which weights 40 or 50 pounds (about 20 kg)."

http://www.angelfire.com/film/batman/movies/forever/design/costumes.html

I can't find any info detailing precisely which martial arts Val trained in, but based on what we see in the movie I'd guess his Batman uses a fusion of Wing Chun, Jiu-Jitsu and Karate (or possibly Taekwondo). Much of the fighting is clearly performed by stunt doubles, but Val did a respectable amount himself. His Batman isn't shown to be as superhumanly strong as Keaton's, but he was strong enough to slice the top off a wooden training dummy with one kick. He's also very agile and insanely durable. He survived falling 150 feet into Gotham Harbour, being immolated and buried beneath a collapsing subway station, and being shot in the head by Two-Face. The gunshot put him out of action for a few hours, but the other things merely left him bruised and mildly annoyed.

I like the fact we get to see some onscreen detective work with Kilmer's Bruce. We see him consulting with Chase over the psychological profile of his stalker, and we see him deciphering the Riddler's clues with the help of Alfred. There's also a deleted scene where he's shown dismantling and analysing Nygma's box.

This implies that in addition to his proficiency at psychoanalysis and enigmatology, he's also skilled at electronics and engineering; something that's further hinted at when Alfred mentions the sonar modifications he designed for his experimental Batsuit. He's also got some knowledge of computer science, as evidenced by the fact he was able to identify Stickley's suicide video as a computer-generated forgery while the rest of the GCPD was taken in by it. Alfred was right when he said, "You really are quite bright, despite what people say."

Then there's his Batman voice – smooth, calm and natural. It never sounded forced or unintentionally funny like Bale's, and yet it was darker and more sinister than the voice Clooney used. I don't think Kilmer's Batman was as badass or intimidating as Keaton's, but he compensated for this by exploring the more compassionate and emotionally vulnerable side of the character. Several critics at the time noted that his version of Batman was more humanised than Keaton's, and that's not necessarily a bad thing. I'm not sure I could see Keaton's Bruce taking on a sidekick, but it makes sense for Kilmer's more compassionate incarnation to do so. He doesn't just take Dick Grayson under his wing so he can exploit his skills; he does it because he genuinely cares about the lad and wants to help him.

Kilmer's Bruce initially displays an almost Chekhovian dereliction of spirit, as though he's been doing what he does for so long now that he's forgotten why he's doing it. He needs Chase to help him unlock his repressed memories, and in so doing gain a fresh understanding of his raison d'être. Once he's able to decode his past, and free himself of his repressed guilt, he's then able to take charge of his life and control his destiny. Keaton's Batman was a slave to his tragic past, but Kilmer's Batman was able to master his pain and take charge of it. It's just a shame that his most emotional scenes all ended up on the cutting room floor. But anyone who's seen the numerous fan edits will now how good he was.

Outside of his performance as Batman, I've really come to appreciate just how good an actor Val Kilmer is. His nineties filmography includes some legitimately great films like Tombstone (1993), Heat (1995) and The Prince of Egypt (1998). Those have all aged beautifully and are now rightly regarded as classics. I can't say the same for most of the films Keaton and Clooney made during that decade. And yet despite this, Kilmer remains the only Batman actor from the Warner Bros film series to never receive an Academy Award nomination (Affleck's never been nominated for an acting Oscar either, though he has won two Academy Awards in other fields). He's badly underrated, and so is his Batman.

He also gets bonus points for being married to Daredevil's mum.

Daredevil's mum... Oh, Daredevil... Why did they cancel you? Why...

[The Dark Knight]

If there's an underrated Batman actor it's Val Kilmer, and he's worth advocating for. Traits of Keaton remain, but they are expanded upon in a way that makes this portrayal unique to Val. And for that I'm proud to include him along with the others (West, Keaton, etc) in a way that I'm not inclined to with Clooney. He has more of the traits that I admire, and Batman Forever is also the better movie. It's a broken record but if the film had all the deleted scenes reinstated it would be even better.

It is a real shame that Kilmer has been virtually forgotten as a Batman actor. It was a big deal back in 1994 when it was announced that he was taking over for Keaton. And when the movie came out a year later, the general attitude seemed to be that the character was in good hands. But a mere ten years later, people had already forgotten about him.

If he'd turned in a bad performance, I could understand why that happened. But his work is first rate This is completely illogical. And yet it happened anyway.

It really is illogical how the Clooney film changed the perception of the Schumacher era as a whole. Kilmer wore glasses like Keaton. He had a quiet, awkward side (knocking down Chase's door) and was a businessman (inspecting the Wayne building). He was a little more of a public identity (attending the circus and the Nygmatech party) but still invites Chase to the Manor for a private meeting ala Selina in BR. His greatest point of difference is that thoughtful, deep reflection of what he has done during his career. It's apparent in his quiet, whispery voice.

As an aside, I really dig the Batman aesthetic in BF. The cave, the suits, the car and the gadgets.

And Silver, great post. You've argued Kilmer's case very well indeed.