Suicide Squad

[riddler]

Surprised people liked Man of Steel better. Suicide Squad had its moments of sadness but it wasn't the depressing, Nolanesque, borefest Man of Steel was. Though their problems contrasted; MOS had scenes drag on way too long, SS was underdeveloped.

I do consider BvS the strongest DCEU film mainly due to Affleck. I kind of feel the last two films were made for payoffs down the road (similar to Iron man 2 which seems like it was solely made to set up the Avengers), DC needs to cut to the chase and startgiving us more payoffs with the films rather than dangle the carrot that great things lie ahead. 

[Silver Nemesis]

Hey Silver, that was a low blow.

That's how I dish it out.

I'm just ribbing you, gobbs. No malice intended.

After all, if people are choosing not to see Ghostbusters 2016 because of the all-female cast, that would be a sexist decision.

What's wrong with being sexy?

[The Dark Knight]

Surprised people liked Man of Steel better. Suicide Squad had its moments of sadness but it wasn't the depressing, Nolanesque, borefest Man of Steel was. Though their problems contrasted; MOS had scenes drag on way too long, SS was underdeveloped.

MoS had ambition. It told a story that meant something, and for my money, elicited a response that resonated deeper. Contrast the world engine sequence against the Enchantress dancing around with the portal open in Suicide Squad. You never feel like the world is at risk in Suicide Squad. We don't really see people reacting to this supposed carnage, or even witness the true consequences. We just see a bunch of military and government people talking about it. It didn't have any sense of danger apart from what we're told. In MoS, we see the firsthand terror and lethality of the world engine flattening cars, sending people into the air and slamming them down. It was terrifying and surprisingly real for a fantastical concept. The world was at risk and I believed it. You breathe a sigh of relief when Superman shuts it down. Suicide Squad was just too superficial to the point of being lazy.

[thecolorsblend]

Plus, by all means question my choice (although it ultimately came down to reviews and poor word-of-mouth that simply confirmed my prejudices rather than allaying them), but I do think there's a difference.  After all, if people are choosing not to see Ghostbusters 2016 because of the all-female cast, that would be a sexist decision.

Why is this not a valid decision to not see a movie? Women mostly don't get into the Expendables movies. As a film series, it's not marketed to women. And women tend to avoid those movies.

Women are not raked over the coals for it.

So even IF a lot of men skipped Girlbusters because something something sexist... so what?

[The Dark Knight]

Agreed. People spoke with their feet and didn't see the movie. Fair play to them. It's free will in action. We all have the right to choose or reject something. The majority of people rejected Girlbusters, even if the critics loved it.

[Silver Nemesis]

MoS had ambition. It told a story

^ This fact alone elevates MoS and BvS high above Suicide Squad in my opinion.

[The Joker]

Interviews can be kinda dull, but this one sure wasn't! 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?time_continue=45&v=9usVtKhLVdA


On the topic of Suicide Squad refraining from showing everyday folk reactions/consequences to the carnage that was happening around them, there's an explanation to that and one that's already made the rounds.

Consider these quotes from the Snyders:

"When Batman v Superman came out, I was like, 'Wow, okay, oof'...It did catch me off guard. I have had to, in my mind, make an adjustment. I do think that the tone of Justice League has changed because of what the fans have said."

"The backlash against Dawn of Justice was 'learning experience', noting, "We hear what everyone has to say because we care what the fans say...The main thing we learned, I think: People don't like to see their heroes deconstructed."

Those examples alone tells you all that one needs to know about why Suicide Squad ended up with alot of excised footage (some featuring darker material) in order to fit the tone/mood/direction WB/DC wants going forward. The detractors are getting their way, and in regards to Wonder Woman and Justice League, it's probably a safe bet that both films are going to be decidedly different in terms of storytelling techniques than from what we got with MOS and BvS. If that's a good or bad thing, is clearly up to one's own personal perspective, as the love/hate ratio for Snyder's MOS and BvS is obviously divided, but if you are wanting Suicide Squad and any subsequent DCEU movies to be on par, if even just in a tonality way, with MOS and BvS, then I am afraid you are setting yourself up for some serious disappointment in 2017. That type of approach to the material, atleast presently, is seen as detrimental rather than beneficial.

With Suicide Squad, another reason why it's different than MOS or BvS, is in it's overall modus operandi. MOS was an event in the DCEU. Not only was it the 1st film in the DCEU, with no doubt special attention given to it due to just that, it also was the film that re-introduced Superman to modern audiences, and if we're talking within the world of the DCEU, it's 1st widely acknowledged by the public, metahuman. With the concept of world-building for the DCEU, MOS was definitely important.

Likewise, so was BVS. It continued the Superman story, but also incorporated Batman, and not only would they meet, but also feud with one another. That's pretty big stuff in of itself, and no doubt a vital component to the DCEU as a whole. Throw in Lex jr., Wonder Woman's first interactions with Bats & Supes, along with her reemergence, Doomsday, and a particular "Death", and yeah, BvS is right up there with MOS in terms of storytelling. Decidedly even more grand or epic.  In terms of actual comic books, the occurrences within MOS/BvS could easily be treated as "Event" books. With BvS, hell that could have easily been a "Event Crossover" even.

With Suicide Squad, the film came across more akin to a story you might find within pretty much any Suicide Squad comic. Nothing more, nothing less. Amanda Waller gets another Task Force X rounded up, and off they go. Considering the rotation of members in the comics, it's a very basic affair. Akin to the technique used with 2012's DREDD. Both (DREDD and SS) featured stories that could quite easily be taken as just another episode, rather than going the route of trying to adapt major story lines like "The Cursed Earth Saga", or something like the "Death of Superman" arc.  The films methodology are divergent, cause they are fundamentally different.

For me, I liked the theatrical cut of BVS alot despite having problems with it, while others found it just underwhelming. Same thing with MOS, and I can't say I'm surprised by SS getting mixed reactions as well. This place would be pretty boring if we agreed on everything anyways.

[The Dark Knight]

The detractors are getting their way, and in regards to Wonder Woman and Justice League, it's probably a safe bet that both films are going to be decidedly different in terms of storytelling techniques than from what we got with MOS and BvS. If that's a good or bad thing, is clearly up to one's own personal perspective, as the love/hate ratio for Snyder's MOS and BvS is obviously divided, but if you are wanting Suicide Squad and any subsequent DCEU movies to be on par, if even just in a tonality way, with MOS and BvS, then I am afraid you are setting yourself up for some serious disappointment in 2017.

MoS and BvS had interesting themes and narratives that intertwined throughout the course of the film. They're sophisticated in their execution. Suicide Squad barely felt like a film to me, and that's part of why I dislike it so much. I fully expect JL to tackle the source material with the necessary attention these event films require these days, eg. two and a half hours. The negative response would factor in, but regardless, the direction of the DCEU post BvS was going to lighten up. Batman was never going to be as ruthless as he was in BvS again. He'll grow along with the other characters. So in that sense, the lighter tone isn't a shock or something to shun. It's all in the execution, as Suicide Squad proved for me. I was willing to accept a fun, quirky romp. But sadly, their version of that didn't click.

[Silver Nemesis]

So in that sense, the lighter tone isn't a shock or something to shun. It's all in the execution, as Suicide Squad proved for me. I was willing to accept a fun, quirky romp. But sadly, their version of that didn't click.

Same here. I've no problem with a lighter tone for certain DC movies. The tone of each film should suit the tone of the source material. My problem with Suicide Squad was the poor execution. I wanted to find it funny, but I didn't. It was really awkward watching this in a theatre full of people and hearing the deathly silence after every joke fell flat. They use musical cues to try and punctuate the moments when you're meant to laugh, but it doesn't help. It just wasn't funny IMO. Take for example the thing about Boomerang carrying the pink unicorn. It's obviously meant to be random and quirky, but it's such a lazy, shallow gag it never really pays off. At least I didn't think it did.

I wasn't as blown away by Deadpool as most people seem to be, nor did I think it was as funny as fans claimed. But at least there were a few legitimately funny gags in that film. Suicide Squad didn't have one. It was totally devoid of any wit.

[The Joker]

Humor's a subjective thing, but admittedly there were scenes in ss that worked for me, and others that didn't. Some of the stuff that was jokey and made the rounds in the commercials, fell flat, but stuff like Cap Boomerang getting royally screwed by Waller, was funny to me. I guess cause I found it to be incredibly comic accurate. It wasn't a total miss like you guys experienced. I found most of the humor in Deadpool worked, atleast for me, due to the nature of the character, and structure. With Cap Civil War, there were alot of scenes that played upon humor, and they just fell flat to me. The Giant-Man reveal worked, but some other stuff didn't. Whatever.