Star Wars: The Force Awakens

[Edd Grayson]

How long before someone makes a meme for that set to "The Banana Boat Song?" Better known as "Day-O!"

lol

[The Dark Knight]

I think Kylo Ren is my favourite character in the franchise.

I can relate to his longing for greatness. He wants more from life. He doesn't want the mundane. He's a man who wears his heart on his sleeve and has frustrations and fears like the rest of us. When he's angry, he's not a cool customer like Vader. He's going to trash his room like a little kid. Who doesn't feel like lashing out like that when they're frustrated? But of course, we can't. We have to control ourselves. Kylo doesn't.

I think people these days are sick and tired of being told off and being told what to do. They are sick of being micromanaged. We are also sick of failure, holding our tongue and being let down time and time again. Kylo wants to be his own man, operating within the First Order system, but as an outsider. But Kylo isn't a happy person. He's conflicted and goes through a variety of emotions. In a way Kylo is playing the role of a bad guy, because that's what he wants to be.

He's a good person driven to darkness. I'd say that's a reflection of society at the moment. People want to reclaim a sense of power and control. They realise darker methods may be necessary to empower themselves, and more importantly, unchain themselves. Kylo thinks greatness is his birthright, but nonetheless, he's someone who is frustrated, messed up and longing for something greater. He's anti-establishment and making his mark individually.

[johnnygobbs]

I know a lot of people here don't have time for TDK trilogy or Nolan's pseudo-philosophising in general, let alone the character of Rachel Dawes, but in response to some of your comments about Kylo Ren being a 'good person driven to darkness' all I'll say is the following:

[Edd Grayson]

I didn't have problems with Kylo Ren's character in the film, I'm looking forward to seeing more of him. as he will complete his training under Snoke and perphaps face Rey again. And I hope Leia will have the chance to confront her son.

The way he turned against the Jedi sounds a lot like Anakin's path to becoming Darth Vader, and even so, Ben was shown to be struggling in his attempt to fullly embrace the Dark Side...and we all know how he eventually did that, killing his father.

[Silver Nemesis]

[Silver Nemesis]

Did anyone else pick up the Blu-ray last week? I did, and while I loved seeing the film again (I saw it 3 times on the cinema) and watching all the special features, I'm a bit miffed they didn't include the deleted scene between Han and the stormtroopers. Everyone's saying that's the best one of all, but it isn't on the Blu-ray. Nor are there any commentaries.

I know Lucasfilm has a history of issuing incomplete home releases of the Star Wars films so we have to buy them again  when they're reissued later on (I own 5 different copies of A New Hope), but I was hoping we'd be past all that following the Disney merger.

[The Joker]

I did. I picked up the Target exclusive version. It's a bit on the slim side, but I just liked all the different character posters merged into one cover art. Wish there would have been a Abrams commentary, so that's kinda disappointing, but like you said, there will probably, if Lucasfilm/Star Wars pattern continues, be another release somewhere down the line with more features to further entice the faithful fanbase.... 

[Silver Nemesis]

And when they do, I'll probably buy it all over again.

[The Joker]

And when they do, I'll probably buy it all over again.

*raises hand*

Guilty.   

[The Laughing Fish]

I finally saw this movie over a month ago.

I don't call myself the biggest Star Wars fan out there (I do like the original trilogy as most people do, but I guess I only like The Phantom Menace out of the prequels), but I thought The Force Awakens was enjoyable. My only complaint is Han Solo's death felt rushed and forgotten quickly, similar to Quicksilver's demise in Avengers: Age of Ultron, but all in all, it was a fun popcorn movie. Whether Rey is a "Mary Sue" character or not, I honestly don't care. I saw her as a female equivalent to Luke Skywalker, and from what I can remember, he didn't exactly have that many flaws either, unless maybe if you argue he rushed his training to fight Darth Vader in The Empire Strikes Back (forgive me if I'm wrong though, I haven't seen it in a long time).

I found this rebuttal aimed specifically at Chronicle writer Max Landis, who trash talked the film and accused Rey for being a Mary Sue.

'Star Wars: The Force Awakens' Doesn't Have a "Mary Sue" Problem – Its Critics Do

By Jason Bailey | December 21, 2015

Star Wars: The Force Awakens is, by just about any yardstick, a giant success: record-breaking opening weekend, enthusiastic fan response, rapturous critical reception, faith in franchise restored. Yessiree bob, you'd have to hunt high and low to find much of anything to complain about with this one, I can't imagine you coul – what's that? Some dudes on the Internet are mad that Rey, the new protagonist played with charm and pizzazz by Daisy Ridley, is so capable, skilled, and talented? Huh. Imagine that.

Unsurprisingly, the mouthpiece for these mouth-breathers is one Max Landis, the screenwriter of American Ultra and Victor Frankenstein whose Twitter feed prompts the Superman-paraphrasing tagline "You'll believe a turd can type." On December 18, release date for The Force Awakens, he tweeted:

they finally did it they made a fan fic movie with a Mary Sue as the main character pic.twitter.com/gwO5PatXYc
— Max Landis (@Uptomyknees) December 19, 2015

Three hours later, he followed up his original missive with the irrefutable back-up of an anonymous internet commenter:

Star Wars: The Mary Sue Awakens *spoiler* pic.twitter.com/Ov54eHcsNf
— Max Landis (@Uptomyknees) December 19, 2015

If you're lucky enough not to know – and seriously, kudos – "Mary Sue" is a phrase with roots in fan fiction, describing a female character who's basically flawless. The Mary Sue (which is often presumed to be some sort of author avatar/wish fulfillment) can do everything well; she's remarkably gifted, usually attractive, and saves the day. And you could, I supposed, apply that label to Rey, the female scavenger who proves herself adept at piloting the Millennium Falcon, wielding a spear and lightsaber, and kicking ass. I mean, you'd have to be a raging asshole, but you could do it.

Mark Hamill as Luke Skywalker in "Star Wars"

The fundamental flaw in Landis' argument – and, frankly, in much of the conversation around this particular trope – is the overwhelming number of male characters in the pop culture sphere who exhibit the same traits, with relatively little pushback. "We wouldn't be worrying about Rey's excessive coolness if she were Ray, standard-issue white male hero with all the skills and all the luck," notes Tasha Robinson at The Verge, and she's right; sure, you'll hear the occasional "Gary Stu" grouse, but rarely with the same volume and viciousness. I'm chasing down the corridors of my memory to recall anyone sneering that Jason Bourne or James Bond were just too good at sh*t. "Yes, but they were trained," goes the counter-argument; true enough, but it also seems fair to assume they came into that training with a natural gift. You know who else did? Luke and Anakin Skywalker. As Carly Lane writes over at (hey, look at that) The Mary Sue, "Was there the same amount of agonizing over a young slave from Tatooine who was equally proficient in constructing a protocol droid from spare parts as well as building and flying his own podracer – all at the mere age of nine? Or when his offspring, who possessed little to no X-wing flight training, managed to take down a moon-sized space station with one shot guided by his use of the Force?"

Of course not. And Landis' response to that argument (of Luke, he eloquently insists, "He was a whiney, ineffectual bitch who sucked at almost everything except piloting") doesn't hold water; we're not talking about personality, but skills. And seeing's how (LIGHT SPOILER) Rey is revealed as a Jedi-in-waiting, the Force being strong with her and all that, it's not exactly a stretch to grant her a natural ability and solid mechanical gift or two. (END LIGHT SPOILER)

And as long as we're discussing the Star Wars universe: what kind of a rancid garbage person watches one of these movies and decides this the improbable thing we're going to raise a f***ing ruckus about? Ah yes, walking carpet being who communicates in roars, sure, makes sense; space stations that can destroy entire planets, got it; tiny sentient teddy bears who sing, absolutely; WAIT HOLD ON THAT GIRL IS TOO GOOD AT TOO MANY THINGS I'M NOT BUYING IT.

Is Rey a perfect character? Of course not, but c'mon people, this is a series borne out of Buck Rogers serials; we're not exactly looking for gritty antiheroes. If there's a complaint to be made about The Force Awakens and the gender of its new hero, it's that by the end, the frequent references to it (I'm specifically thinking of Han Solo's "Girl knows her stuff") feel a bit patronizing.

Then again, considering the resistance that burbles up in the ugliest, stupidest corners of the Internet anytime a beloved property gives us a hero who isn't flipped to the default white-male setting – witness the gross racist furor surrounding the reveal of John Boyega when the first Force Awakens trailers hit, or the current hullabaloo over the casting of a black actor as Hermoine Grainger – maybe a little bit of explicit head-patting isn't a bad idea. After all, Landis's complaints don't put him too far from the knuckle-draggers at Breitbart ("Is it my age speaking when I say why even bother to create female characters who are only going to dress and act like men?" writes John Nolte, while longingly caressing his Slave Leia doll), and that is what should give him a stroke. That, and the grosses for American Ultra and Victor Frankenstein, ZING.

Is Rey too good to be true? Maybe. And so are countless other protagonists in comic book, fantasy, action, and sci-fi cinema. That's part of what we're there for; in genre movies, particularly as a young viewer, the true joy comes from seeing these protagonists as heroes who can quite literally do anything, and who we can thus imagine ourselves as. And the joy of the original Star Wars is the universal notion of discovering something magical within oneself, of realizing one's gift and manifesting it. In Star Wars, that happened to a young man, and in this film, it happens to a young woman. Maybe the neckbeards and schmucks and hack screenwriters are upset about it, but y'know what? My daughter is two years old, and these are the movies she and her friends and the rest of her generation are gonna grow up on. I keep thinking about that, and I can't stop smiling about it.

Source: http://flavorwire.com/552857/star-wars-the-force-awakens-doesnt-have-a-mary-sue-problem-its-critics-do

I don't share this author's stance against people who were genuinely unconvinced by Rey as a character, but I am glad Max Landis was singled out for his trash talking on Twitter. That guy likes to trash other people's work, but he seems pretty thin skinned when others criticise his stuff e.g. dismissing Red Letter Media's critique of one of his films because they liked The Hobbit, implying they have no credibility. He's in no position to judge anything harshly if he doesn't have the maturity to cope with scrutiny himself. That being said, I've heard some good things about his Superman: American Alien mini-series. Hopefully I'll get the chance to read it and find out if it lives up to the hype.