Star Wars: The Force Awakens

[Dagenspear]

And then your dumbass comes along and says "oh he's here, but only briefly." But you're either too damn self-righteous or too damn stupid to comprehend the issue with that or with the other sh*t you do that drives everyone else up the damn wall, clearly. Or, more likely, a bit of both. You're almost too ignorant to be pompous but you still make the grade somehow.

I want to say that insulting still isn't necessary with this and that you're both not seeming to come out of this looking very good. Please we can all try to be better than this.

God bless you all! God bless everyone!

[Catwoman]

I'm teetering dangerously close to starting to adore this guy...

Hopefully they'll give him more to do in Episode 8.

I think he will be back with a vengeance in Epi VIII. More than the First Order striking back I think it's going to be Kylo striking back. I bet General Opie Taylor ends up on the wrong end of that lightsaber for running his mouth a little too much.

[Edd Grayson]

I agree ! 

[The Dark Knight]

I'm teetering dangerously close to starting to adore this guy...

Hopefully they'll give him more to do in Episode 8.

I think he will be back with a vengeance in Epi VIII. More than the First Order striking back I think it's going to be Kylo striking back. I bet General Opie Taylor ends up on the wrong end of that lightsaber for running his mouth a little too much.

I think Kylo will be seeking to assert his authority and place in the First Order, but with mental challenges. He thought killing Han would make him stronger, but in the novel, it's said he feels weaker and stunned at his action. He largely did the deed because Snoke challenged him to. That Vader failed because he couldn't kill his son, and Kylo needs to correct this by killing his father. Meaning there are no obstacles in his way and the darkness can fully be embraced. I personally think this is all quite brilliant. In some ways I think Kylo is what Anakin should have been in the prequel era. Conveying that messed up, conflicted headspace. Someone who wants to be dark but really, it's just not for them. But they force it upon themselves anyway.

[Edd Grayson]

I've thought the same regarding Anakin and Ren, TDK. In the prequels, Anakin to me felt like someone who was definitely not selfish or had a real tendency for violence, but who was very emotional, something that the Jedi sought to control, and while I enjoyed RotS I still don't buy that he turned into THE Darth Vader from the original movies from the young, impulsive and in love Anakin Skywalker who decided he had enough of following the rules and wanted to gain all the power.

If anything, Padme' dead should've made him realise what he'd done and that he really made the wrong decision in abandoning the Jedi, and not make him go full dark.

Lucas tried to tell an ambitious story in those films centered on him but it didn't quite work.

Back to Kylo Ren, I certainly didn't expect the next "bad guy" in SW to do what he did, but looking at the big picture they can do great things with him in the next movie. He was not Vader or Sidious, but that was just the point. He's a different kind of villain.

[Dagenspear]

In some ways I think Kylo is what Anakin should have been in the prequel era. Conveying that messed up, conflicted headspace. Someone who wants to be dark but really, it's just not for them. But they force it upon themselves anyway.

I've thought the same regarding Anakin and Ren, TDK. In the prequels, Anakin to me felt like someone who was definitely not selfish or had a real tendency for violence, but who was very emotional, something that the Jedi sought to control, and while I enjoyed RotS I still don't buy that he turned into THE Darth Vader from the original movies from the young, impulsive and in love Anakin Skywalker who decided he had enough of following the rules and wanted to gain all the power.

If anything, Padme' dead should've made him realise what he'd done and that he really made the wrong decision in abandoning the Jedi, and not make him go full dark.

Lucas tried to tell an ambitious story in those films centered on him but it didn't quite work.

Anakin specifically became selfish. He became who, because of his emotions, could be violent. Why should have Padme's death made him realize he made the wrong decision. Anakin was exclusively someone by the end of ROTS who wanted justify his bad actions to himself. The whole idea, as it seems, of Anakin is that he makes compromises in what he knows is right to get what he wants. At the end of the day, after everything he's done, Anakin would stand there and justify everything he did to himself. The attitude of self-loathing because of those actions, but justifying himself is basically the attitude that is Vader, not  Kylo Ren's, "I want to be evil, but it bothers me kinda, at times."

God bless you both! God bless everyone!

[Edd Grayson]

I suppose it's there Dagenspear, but it all happened too quickly for that to convince me. First Anakin wanted to keep Padme' from dying, then after he helped the Emperor kill Mace Windu, he was happily murdering people around and talking about how he'll rule the Empire and how all who are not with him are his enemies, while after he was defeated by Obi Wan he remained Sidious' apprentice...

I think his turn to the Dark Side happened with a lot of fanfare and in a flash and to me it was not consistent with his character up to that point that he would become like that and even hate Padme' and Kenobi.

In conclusion, it was not great character development to me, and they did much better with Darth Vader in the original films where all we knew was that he was the one who killed Luke's father and then it was revealed he was the same person who turned to the Dark Side.

God bless you too!

[Dagenspear]

I suppose it's there Dagenspear, but it all happened too quickly for that to convince me. First Anakin wanted to keep Padme' from dying, then after he helped the Emperor kill Mace Windu, he was happily murdering people around and talking about how he'll rule the Empire and how all who are not with him are his enemies, while after he was defeated by Obi Wan he remained Sidious' apprentice...

I'll be the first to say that the end result was kinda rushed. But he wasn't shown to be happy about anything he's doing. Only when he's confronted by Padme does he start to really double down and justify his actions to himself and her and also, and this is the part that I think is rushed, where he starts to get a power high.

I think his turn to the Dark Side happened with a lot of fanfare and in a flash and to me it was not consistent with his character up to that point that he would become like that and even hate Padme' and Kenobi.

He didn't hate Padme or even Obi-Wan really. He even kinda offered Obi-Wan the opportunity to be on his side. But Obi-Wan rightfully rejected it. Anakin was before that to desire power, to want more acclaim, to want more. Really, if you think about it Anakin's vow to never let himself lose someone again is more about his powerlessness than wanting to save someone he loves.

In conclusion, it was not great character development to me, and they did much better with Darth Vader in the original films where all we knew was that he was the one who killed Luke's father and then it was revealed he was the same person who turned to the Dark Side.

God bless you too!

They kinda had to, by the prequels very nature, show more about Anakin than the original trilogy. Thank you very much!

God bless you! God bless everyone!

[Edd Grayson]

I agree with your point about his powerlessness and him justifying himself, but Anakin didn't really offer Obi-Wan a chance, he told him he wanted to become Emperor and that he'd better not stand in his way. The duel between the two former friends was very convincing though.

And it was still senseless to me how he wanted to Force-choke Padme' in a matter of minutes after telling her that he doesn't want to lose her.

You're right that they had to show more of Anakin, of course, but it could've been handled a little bit better.

[Dagenspear]

I agree with your point about his powerlessness and him justifying himself, but Anakin didn't really offer Obi-Wan a chance, he told him he wanted to become Emperor and that he'd better not stand in his way. The duel between the two former friends was very convincing though.

I think to Anakin, saying, "I you're not with me, then you're my enemy." is his way of offering Obi-Wan to join him. But that might just be my interpretation.

And it was still senseless to me how he wanted to Force-choke Padme' in a matter of minutes after telling her that he doesn't want to lose her.

That's what happens when you're not so much concerned for those you love, but the idea that you're going to lose them. Yoda lays it out pretty well in the scene with Anakin: "Attachment leads to jealousy. The shadow of greed, that is." Anakin's attachment to Padme has stopped being about being about his caring for her and more about his greed desire for her, his greed for her in a sense. Thank you for the polite responses! Sometimes prequel defenders can get some harsh reactions from some.

God bless you! God bless everyone!